ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !

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sueata1

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Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #120 on: 12 Jan 2010, 08:46 pm »
I'm with Jim Winey on this one and his 3 note theory..If you don't hear a difference with the first 3 notes played it's not there.. :wink:

Happy listening,,
Mel

avahifi

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #121 on: 12 Jan 2010, 10:06 pm »
Hey Guys,

I don't really mind whether you fall in love with our equipment in three notes or three weeks.  Everyone has their own methodology to evaluating their experiences with something new and hopefully better.

Just as long is the break in time does not turn out to be a break down time.  That we certainly hope does not happen.

Smargo seems to be very happy with his Vision DAC.  This makes us happy too.  Let him express himself as he sees fit.  I very much appreciate his comments. I made one comment much early in this thread about "break in time" that I probably should have just kept to myself.  No matter how you come to thoroughly enjoy our equipment, the end result is the same, another happy customer.  We like that best of all.

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

trebejo

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #122 on: 12 Jan 2010, 10:47 pm »
When I got the Ultradac, I tried the a/b three-note test comparing it with the dacmagic, switching inputs with the knob on the ol' preamp. I could hardly hear a difference.

I smiled... "oh, what the hell, it's still a Van Alstine"...

Then I left the Ultradac in place and just started to listen to some music. I am not sure how long it took, maybe two or three songs (rather than notes), but I began to feel more involved with the music than when I'd used the previous dac. The difference was particularly obvious on CDs that did not sound so great beforehand.

It's been a few weeks since I got it, but I still could not give the description for why it sounds (so much) better than what it replaced. Yep, I figured such a strong improvement should show up as a three-note test, but for me it did not; the parameters were a bit more holistic than that.

So the new DAC takes a little while to appraise properly? Big deal, as long as you like it more and more every day!

pardales

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #123 on: 12 Jan 2010, 11:10 pm »
Different is what I hear when I put a new component in the chain. I hear differences immediately.

But discerning the quality and quantity of those differences takes time. Is that bass more taught or deeper? Did I just hear a vocal section that I never heard before? I don't usually hear that sound so deep into the soundstage? Where'd that midrange bloom go on track 6? But, this is only one level of change.

Sometimes I just watch my behavior......am I constantly fidgeting for the next song or album or just kicking back and relaxing.....watching your behavior can often tell you a lot more about your reaction to a new component than the rational evaluation.

Not to mention that I have a long list of various kinds of music that I know really well, and it takes many days and nights to listen to the various tracks and albums to appreciate the differences.

Sure, in an instant I can judge that there is a difference and even form a general impression. Many times I have inserted a new piece and thought, "wow this is great", only to find that a week or two later I want the piece out of my system. My first impression is not always reliable with a new piece of audio gear and I find that, in the case of evaluating new gear, it takes several weeks to appreciate the nature of the difference and if it is pleasing to me.
« Last Edit: 13 Jan 2010, 01:30 am by pardales »

festuss

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Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #124 on: 13 Jan 2010, 01:00 am »
So festuss... do you think that your ears are the authority on fine gradations in sound quality? Do you have the Vision DAC? If you don't, then you're just engaging in an opinion based on speculation.

-Roy
:duh: So if you are hearing this change, you better speak to Frank, you must have a DEFECTIVE unit, there is no drift or change in solid state electronics, one of the reasons for it's existence.  I have several AVA units there is no change, there is no drift, nothing happens  if I leave them on for 2 weeks, or one day or 5 hours, it always sounds the same.  That's called good design, electrical stability.  Have you not heard Frank say many many many times there is no need to beak in, nor is there any changes.  Does your computer change over time, didn't think so, if it does, there is a PROBLEM.  Why is electronics  different in audio components?  the electrons don't know any difference, the components ae stable in DAC's or computers, or pre amps etc.   :duh: :duh: :duh:   Right now I have at least 9 AVA units in use in my system, nothing changes, why would YOUR one DAC change?

trebejo

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #125 on: 13 Jan 2010, 02:02 am »
Festuss, it's not like I am necessarily disagreeing with you (although to some extent, I do). It's just that this is not really the proper place to discuss whether equipment does or does not change as it "breaks in". In this thread, we are talking about the brand-spanking new DAC, how good it is or isn't, etc.

You can definitely start a new thread on that topic of equipment break-in. I would love to hear about the nine AVA units that you own, I must admit I am a little envious. Let's just make it easier for other folks to start adding up the number of AVA pieces in their possession by sticking to the topic of the new dac on this thread, what do you say?  :thumb:

trebejo

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #126 on: 13 Jan 2010, 02:02 am »
Sorry about the duplicate post. Dunno what happened.  :scratch:
« Last Edit: 13 Jan 2010, 05:12 am by trebejo »

DSK

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #127 on: 13 Jan 2010, 02:20 am »
:duh: So if you are hearing this change, you better speak to Frank, you must have a DEFECTIVE unit, there is no drift or change in solid state electronics, one of the reasons for it's existence.  I have several AVA units there is no change, there is no drift, nothing happens  if I leave them on for 2 weeks, or one day or 5 hours, it always sounds the same.  That's called good design, electrical stability.  Have you not heard Frank say many many many times there is no need to beak in, nor is there any changes.  Does your computer change over time, didn't think so, if it does, there is a PROBLEM.  Why is electronics  different in audio components?  the electrons don't know any difference, the components ae stable in DAC's or computers, or pre amps etc.   :duh: :duh: :duh:   Right now I have at least 9 AVA units in use in my system, nothing changes, why would YOUR one DAC change?

Oh great, another saviour swooping in to tell us what we are or aren't hearing so that we don't have to hear or think for ourselves.  :roll:

This is YOUR opinion festuss and that is fine, just don't ram it down our throats as if we were gullible young newbies who haven't been in this hobby for decades. Sure, your opinion may be shared by others and even Frank himself. However, there are others who have a different opinion based upon their own hearing in their own system. Surely you aren't so arrogant as to believe that these people are all wrong simply because their observations differ from yours? I haven't seen anybody state (in this thread) that electrons change, or any of the other implications you made ... they have simply conveyed what they heard. You are also wrong that it is just one person. If you had bothered to read the thread you would have noticed my post on the previous page describing changes that I heard in an AVA Ultra DAC as it burned in or settled in or whatever else you want to call it. And no, I was not pre-conditioned to hear it. In fact, knowing that Frank has stated in the past that there are no audible burn in effects with his gear, I was expecting no changes whatsoever. However, over several listening sessions over different days, with no other system or room changes, the DAC sounded dull, closed in, congested, vocals were pushed back into the mix. Still thinking that AVA products have no burn in effects, I really did fear that I had made a mistake in purchasing this DAC and pulled it out of the system with a view to selling it off. Because by nature I am methodical and thorough, I figured it can't hurt to throw it into my headphone system for a while (where the same traits were observed). I gave it about 160 hours then installed it back in the big rig, with the view that it would be no different and I would then sell it. Still NO changes to system or room. BIG difference ... much better dimensionality, separation, voices were much better delineated and brought forward of the backing instruments, the (relative) lifelessness and flatness had gone. Performance is superb. Had I been even more closed minded to the possibility of burn in effects I would have sold it and never known what a truly good DAC it is. It has performed in this way ever since, over multiple listening sessions (ie. no further changes that I can hear).

So, no I don't know the scientific reasons for what I heard (and don't really care), but they were obvious despite me actually expecting the reverse. I don't recall you being there so please don't try to tell me (or others) what I heard as all it does is to erode your credibility in my eyes. Similarly, I won't try to tell you that you have poor ears or a poor system not to have heard burn in effects. I have no idea of your background, ears, system etc etc and am happy to accept that you have heard no such effects from AVA gear.

Perhaps I should also point out that I don't claim to hear these effects in all new equipment though I have heard them in some others. Sometimes I "think" I hear something but wouldn't swear to it. Other times it is quite obvious, as in the case of the AVA Ultra DAC.

Art_Chicago

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #128 on: 13 Jan 2010, 04:25 am »
well, the worst expectations materialized  :( we are talking about the burn-in staff now... not a right time and definitely not a right place!

trebejo

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #129 on: 13 Jan 2010, 05:17 am »
Soooo, Frank.... how about that brand new current amplifier device that you pulled out of your hat, hmm? Care to share some details?!  :eyebrows:

avahifi

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #130 on: 13 Jan 2010, 12:57 pm »
Nope.  :)

Frank

trebejo

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #131 on: 13 Jan 2010, 08:40 pm »
Nope.  :)

Frank

Looks like we'll have to arrange a midnight visit to the patent office.   :icon_twisted:

robinje

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #132 on: 13 Jan 2010, 09:00 pm »
I received my new basic Vision DAC today...   :D

I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet, but I did turn it on and noticed the glowing red LED inside the chassis.  What does this indicate?  It is not described in the instruction sheet, and my quick search of this thread hasn't turned up any discussion.  I apologize, however, if it has been previously described and I missed it.

avahifi

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #133 on: 13 Jan 2010, 09:23 pm »
The glowing red lite is part of the surveillance circuit installed with the help of Jack Bower.  It listens to your comments and reports you if you say anything bad about it.

Actually it is there mostly for initial setup and testing.  It glows only when a disc is not tracking.  When it plays the tiny little red led will go out.

Regards,

Frank


Ric Schultz

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #134 on: 13 Jan 2010, 10:24 pm »
My guess on the output device is the National LME49600 (Buf 634 redone by National).  It has 2000Vmsec slew rate, quarter amp current and zero feedback and no gain....all the specs Frank said earlier.   My sense is that there is a passive filter and then the device and either a coupling cap after or before the device.  By the way, I use the Buf 634 the same way on the multichannel outs on my modded Oppos.....great device.....and good choice....very pure sounding device.

robinje

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #135 on: 14 Jan 2010, 04:53 am »
Okay, I've had a chance to enjoy a first listening session involving my new Vision DAC and an old favorite...  Pink Floyd - The Wall.  All I can say is...  WOW!!!   :thumb:

This thing is incredible.  The clarity and musicality are simply astonishing.  I have never heard this album, which I am very familiar with, sound so incredibly good.  I sold an Ultra DAC (with hesitation because I liked it so much) to be able to buy this new Vision DAC.  I have absolutely no concern that this was the right decision.  I honestly cannot fathom how it can possibly get any better than this with digital media.  Excellent job on your design and implementation, Frank.  You're truly a Visionary!

DSK

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #136 on: 14 Jan 2010, 09:18 am »
... Versatile - - -  the AVA Vision DAC directly accepts 44K, 48K, and 96K bit rates. It can be user adjusted to accept 192K 24bit ultra fast input digital data streams too. Simply moving one internal jumper. ...

Frank just for clarification, does this mean that the standard setting handles 24/96? You mention "bit rates" but list sampling rates. Obviously the high res setting handles 24/192, but is the standard setting up to 24 bit or 16 bit only? Thanks.
 

avahifi

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #137 on: 14 Jan 2010, 01:25 pm »
Yes 24 bit is handled too at all bit rates.  Not all combinations tested yet.  Let me know if any issues come up please.

Frank

jtwrace

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Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #138 on: 14 Jan 2010, 01:38 pm »
Why does a jumper need to be moved internally?  Why isn't it automatic like other Dac's?  Is it sonically better this way or??

Tom Alverson

Re: ANNOUNCING THE NEW AVA VISION DAC ! ! !
« Reply #139 on: 14 Jan 2010, 01:59 pm »
Why does a jumper need to be moved internally?  Why isn't it automatic like other Dac's?  Is it sonically better this way or??

That's just the way the Wolfson chip works.