[bhobba]

Demand, strongly encourage, highly recommend, whatever. The point is that in order to sound its best, the DB needs a Mac Mini in front of it, this comes straight from the company. Which is great if you have or want a Mac Mini. Otherwise, not so great.

Let me get this straight.  You think it is an issue that in order to get the best out of the Tranquility you need the best source.  Next thing you will tell me it is an issue you need a good amp to get the best out of loudspeakers.  I am more and more reminded of Johns comments about armchair audiophiles.

Thanks
Bill

[JohnR]

Hey you guys, you know what, this thread stopped being relevant to the original review ages ago, and this latest round of volleys isn't really helping much. Maybe you could ask Eric to start up an Industry Ads thread and then you can ask him about it there.

[DaveBSC]

Asynchronous DACs like the W4S and Northstar use custom drivers in order to support 176.4 and 192. The default Windows USB drivers don't support those resolutions, so drivers are required. At 44.1, it's not an issue. Now that the Ayre supports 192, I assume Ayre supplies drivers for that as well.

I think that the ideal USB DAC needs galvanic isolation, dual fixed frequency clocks for multiples of 44.1 and 48, separate transformers for the analog and digital sections, and some form of asynchronous mode transfer. Not all asynchronous implementations are equal, just as not all adaptive mode implementations are equal. It seems that for the time being Gordon's system is the best, although I'm sure whatever Steve at Empirical has cooked up for the Off-ramp 4 is good as he knows his stuff.

Of course after all this comes the DACs themselves and then the analog output section which are just as important. The nice thing about the Wavelink and Off-ramp is they let you use a DAC with a crappy USB implementation like the Bryston, or none at all like the Berkeley. A Wavelink or Off-ramp connected to the legendary Spectral DAC should smash anything on the market to tiny bits. 

[saisunil]

db audio needs the latest mac mini to sound its best - take it or leave it ... it may or may not float everyone's boat ...
 
whatever works ... as long as you enjoy the music ...
 
Cheers

[genjamon]

Hey you guys, you know what, this thread stopped being relevant to the original review ages ago, and this latest round of volleys isn't really helping much.

Welcome to audiocircle ...
Let's have fun!

Yeah, it appears we have some antagonists here.  Probably not worth fighting them.  I suspect they're immigrants from another more adversarial forum.

[jrebman]

Highfilter,

I'm currently using an Element Signature Terminator with my SE.  At 10AWG, just a bit of overkill, but it's the best PC I have in the house at the moment.  I've only compared it with generic "black devils" as I like to call them, and the Element is significantly better, but that doesn't mean that another purpose-built cable won't be better still.  I do plan to give the Pi Audio Source1 a try sometoime soon, and I have lots of different kinds of wire, terminations, dielectric materials, etc., and I will probably roll a few of my own -- just for the fun of it.  I built the power cables for my Fi 2a3 monos and I somehow managed to just hit the nail on the head with those, though I'll probably rebuild them in a longer length when I get my Rev B buss from Pi Audio.

I'm expecting in another experimental cabl, that will be less than $100 so I'll be interested to see how that performs too.

-- Jim


P.S. - regarding that other discussion, I have had a Proton, Cosecant v.3, and the Legato feeding a Havana, and all were nice, very nice in fact, and the Legato really took the Havana to new places, but given the less than stellar USB implementation of that dac, that was to be expected.  Again, all very nice dacs, but guess which oone is still here, and is staying?   Now I'mdm done with that discussion...

[TheChairGuy]

Hey you guys, you know what, this thread stopped being relevant to the original review ages ago, and this latest round of volleys isn't really helping much. Maybe you could ask Eric to start up an Industry Ads thread and then you can ask him about it there.

....and relieve the long-suffering Facilitator (moi) from overseeing this floating hulk of a topic that I've had to intervene in an unprecedented amount of time compared to any other topic I can remember in my 8+ years of Facilitating/Moderating at AC

Eric - I know you're out there - please start another discussion in Industry Ads.  It'll be better for you as no one in their right mind is going back 40 pages to read this entire discussion.

A new, shorter discussion will foster better understanding of your products and any message you want to convey.

Thx, John

[db audio labs]

[
Per Audio Circle's moderators request -

I have started a brand new thread in the Industry ad section titled "dB Audio Labs Tranquility - technical musings and computer discussions

Here is the link: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=89127.0

The purpose of this thread could be for everyone to sort out their many technical discussions and hypothesis about cause and effects of the multitudes of computer variants, jitter reduction schemes, playback schemes, connectivity schemes, etc...Those seemed to be the various discussion that were most recently talked about lately which deviated from the original review of the Tranquility itself and subsequent feedback from other Tranquility owners and others who have auditioned the Tranquility DAC.

Happy Holidays!   

Eric Hider - dB Audio Labs  www.dbaudiolabs.com

[TheChairGuy]

Thank you Eric

I think it'll be better suited to that area as it will allow you to veer from the strictly 'review' nature of The Critic's Circle.

Regards, John (co-Facilitator)

[brj]

Yeah, it appears we have some antagonists here.  Probably not worth fighting them.  I suspect they're immigrants from another more adversarial forum.

For the record, people are perfectly allowed, and I would say encouraged, to express contrary oppinions in the critic's circles, provided that they are on-topic, non-personal, and expressed constructively and respectfully.  Not everyone is going to like every piece of gear in all systems with all music all the time.  What one doesn't like about a system is often more useful to others as what one likes, provided that the author provides enough context and detail.

[agcs57]

Ah excellent...
in that case today I had a mate over with a highly modded DIY paradise Monica and hot rodded psu.
It was clearly better than the Tranquility SE in the system I had in use today: Auraliti - bnc - Monica - JOR - Rogers LS4a/Quad 57/SF Cremona Auditors. By better I mean a bloody sight more pleasant to listen to.

Again the Tranquility SE had same issue of an over egged output at certain frequencies (like a "loudness button" has been switched on to emphasis dynamics), a lack of timbal accuracy and a lack of separation on orchestral. The modded Monica in comparison was a joy to listen to and very close to the Ref 7. Which made me feel fairly small as I have paid A$2k for the Ref 7 and my mate, with a little smarts, has a comparable dac for about A$600.

Of note we both much preferred vinyl on my old and cheap second hand JVC QL Y3F running a DL 301 into a cheap $100 phono. And no the Tranquility nor the Monica sounded remotely like vinyl; But I digress....

[brj]

As a reminder, I'd also suggest that people re-read the Critic's Circle Guidelines to see what consititutes a good review.

Agcs57,  you've brief comments provided some of the suggested background, but I would encourage you to add details on your room, audition music, personal system preferences (warm, dynamic, preferred listening level, etc.).  This gives readers more perspective and lets them better relate your comments to their own audio experiences and preferences.  FYI, entering your system and providing a link provides a convenient short cut.

(And I address agcs57 specifically only because he was the last to post review related comments; the suggestions are really global in nature.)

[brj]

Eric, thanks for creating the separate thread in Industry Ads!  I would encourage posters to ask specific product related questions of Eric there, but feel free to continue posting review material here.

While I'm in a "reminding" frame of mind, let me also suggest that all members review the AC Posting Guidelines in addition to the Critic's Circle guideliness I referenced in the last post.

In particular, I think it is worth highlighting the following:

• "We have a no dirty laundry policy, which says that while a few disagreements on a site such as this are expected and normal, you can't bring fights here that are nothing to do with this site."

My co-facilitator and I are concerned only with what transpires with AC in general, and the Critic's Circles in particular.  Feel free to respond constructively to anything posted on AC, but please refrain from responding to material posted on other sites.

Again, this is a review thread.  Differences of opinion are going to exist.  That in no way diminishes the product under review.  This hobby were boring if we all liked exactly the same thing!

Heck, look at your co-facilitators... TheChairGuy likes that silly vinyl stuff, while I'm a nutty bit-head.  Oddly enough, we get along just fine!

Viva la difference!

[TheChairGuy]

Heck, look at your co-facilitators... TheChairGuy likes that silly vinyl stuff, while I'm a nutty bit-head.  Oddly enough, we get along just fine!

Viva la difference!

Silly vinyl?  Ok, when you think about in the overall scheme of life - the whole audiophooldom thing for all of us is bizarre

Yup, no dirty laundry, try to understand there is a person, with feelings, behind every keyboard and we'll all do just fine

John / co-Conspirator The Critic's Circle

[agcs57]

Sure thing brj

I have a dedicated room probably 4.5m (W) x 5.5m (L) x3 m (H) that opens out to the hall. It has a sprung timber floor that has a rug on. I subscribe to the targeted intervention approach of room treatment - well I would if I got around to it again. My last room had shocking nodes at 80 and 115Hz so I have 2 active resonators made up to pick up 80 - 120 Hz freq. So I have those in the room but they aren't really necessary. My system doesn't do much under 50Hz (well it will a day or two - I have some TBI Magellans arriving) so I haven't addressed the bass (again yet).

From my speaker choice you will see I favour timbral accuracy with a hint of romance ie I like a little colour. My 57's are my default speaker for midrange purity. I like the Rogers as I do Harbeth - they are very similar: very BBC. The SF Cremona Auditors are a mate's who I'm minding for a while. Nice speaker but needs subs to flesh out. They are well suited to Jadis.

I've also got some single drivers and a 2A3. Just for fun.

Front end is the Auraliti. Dacs are various. My affordable reference is the Dac Ref 7. My absolute reference is dCS, which I have heard many times and know very well in the context of another system.

I listen to 90% classical. 10 % Jazz and vocal. I like it all.

This wasn't a formal "review session" more immediate ideas from a days listening session. we spent 80% of the time listening to vinyl. The 20% listening to bits was mainly Beethoven - various performances including the legendary Klemperer/Barenboim Piano Concerto's from the 1960's (67 or 68 I believe) and the entire 9th. We also put on some Jazz and vocal - usual suspects - Gardot / some Monk and a little Lee Morgan.

This is in no way meant as any form of negative criticism of the Tranquility SE - I love this dac and will be sad to give it back in a day or so. If I lived in the States it would be on the top of my audition list for dacs under 2k. very highly commended.

[srb]

This is in no way meant as any form of negative criticism of the Tranquility SE - I love this dac and will be sad to give it back in a day or so. If I lived in the States it would be on the top of my audition list for dacs under 2k. very highly commended.

I guess I don't get it.  In your previous post you said that the Tranquility SE had "an over egged output at certain frequencies, a lack of timbal accuracy and a lack of separation on orchestral."
 
You go on to say that a modded Monica [at 1/3 cost] "in comparison was a joy to listen to".
 
So in your next post you again refer to the Tranquility SE and say "I love this dac and will be sad to give it back in a day or so. If I lived in the States it would be on the top of my audition list for dacs under 2k. very highly commended.".

I really don't know what to think.
 
Steve

[brj]

Thanks for the added details, agcs57.

I won't speak for anyone but myself, but I will say that it doesn't strike me as odd to admire something yet still be critical of it and want to improve a few things. I've more than once wanted to combine traits of multiple pieces of gear...

(As an example, I dare say that most personal relationships I'm aware of fall in this category... you may love someone, but I suspect that doesn't mean you find them perfect in absolutely every way!  And for those of you that lucky, I commend you!)

Now, having said that, consistancy and clarity in a review are definitely to be strived for.  (I'm assuming a short time frame here... obviously one's preferences may change over time, and thus that might lead to the appearance of inconsistancy.)

[bhobba]

I guess I don't get it.  In your previous post you said that the Tranquility SE had "an over egged output at certain frequencies, a lack of timbal accuracy and a lack of separation on orchestral."

First I must say I personally do not agree with Andrew - to me this DAC is dead neutral.  I have demoed it to a number people including a guy at a local Hi Fi store and one of the first comments they make is this thing is very neutral.  I have also spoken to someone who has heard the SE a lot as well and a DCS.  The DCS was more detailed and quicker - in fact its speed I have been told is simply phenomenal and leaves the Tranquility in the dust.  If you concentrate on certain aspects like speed etc you will probably find the DCS is better.  However one area the Tranquility is better is in it beguiling analogue like liquidity that is simply a joy to listen to - from what I have been told the DCS has a slight digital edge and coldness that detracts from its enjoyment for some.  I believe that is what Andrew may be referring to.  Yes in just about every area if you examine it critically a DAC like the DCS is better - but as far as enjoyment goes the Tranquility is really good.  I can't hear the piano issue and I listen to a lot of Jazz that has piano.  But I have been told if it does have that issue it is usually associated with speed rather than neutrality.

My take is this DAC is one of the three best I have heard, and I have heard a Ref 5.  The other DAC's in that group, in the US market, cost from a bit more to a lot more and are basically hand made.  The Tranquility has this incredible beguiling liquidity that makes it simply a joy to listen to.  It is also as neutral a DAC I have ever heard.  I can't hear midrange bloom or anything like that.

Thanks
Bill

[agcs57]

Hmmm
I feel it isn't valid to categorise most equipment in absolute terms: black or white, all good or all bad. In truth many eg dacs have enjoyable and less enjoyable aspects to them, which only surface when you hear them against other eg dacs.
Sorry I don't mean to confuse anyone - I really liked a lot about the Tranquility SE but found certain areas which, in the context of the music I enjoy, a little bit of an issue.

I quite often like gear that I am critical about - nothing is perfect or the holy grail - everything has strengths and weaknesses. dCS for example: I'm not sure I would necessaily chose a dCS stack but I am always amazed at what it can do and it certainly serves as a reference for me. Similarly the MH Lio8 - amazing mastering tool but wasn't for me. I should say that dCS has, when combined with their upsampler, a depth of sound stage and separation I haven't heard elsewhere. It requires, at least for me, a generous ancillary system. Another reference for me is the 47 Labs pi Tracer and Gemini system with separate power humpties. Heard in the context of a Avantgarde Trio/ Audio Note Jp system it is simply mind blowingly natural. But then again that is a $300,000+ system.

I suppose that ultimately while the Tranquilty SE is certainly a dac I could live with very happily it is not a dac I would personally go toward with my taste in music being as it is. If like Bill I predominantly listened to Vocal jazz it is dac I could happily own and enjoy. It is gorgeous with that type of music.

If I lived in the USA and could benefit from the $1895 intro price and 30 day audition period I would most certainly audition a Tranquility SE, and I would encourage others to do so as well. After all one cannot base one's purchasing decision on the ramblings of someone like me in a system you have never heard and may well dislike. You actually have to hear it in your own system to make a judgement.

In the context of other's individual system and musical preferences they may not find it unbalanced at all. Americans (and this is a gross generalisation of course) tend to the drier presentation in their main stream equipment (Thiel, ARC, Passlabs, Wilson) so a hint of bloom in a dac would be a lovely thing.

I disagree with Bill in his assessment of it's neutrality. I certainly feel it is not as true to the timbre as eg the Ref 7 or even the highly modded Monica I had the pleasure of hearing: but that very quality may well be what others like about it. The modded Monica was a joy: it allowed a much greater separation in the 9th we listened to (lovely performance btw:Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 & Overture Prometheus Otto Klemperer & Philharmonia Orchestra - you can buy it on iTunes for those interested: I had CD copy to enjoy). The tone was simply better: eg the horns sounded like horns with the edginess they should have. The Tranquility on my system rolled the edges a little and when things got busy ie large scale orchestral it got a little unstuck.

Anyway these are just my listening thoughts. Others will disagree and that is entirely appropriate in this thread.

As for being analogue like I'm not sure I have heard any dac I would categorise as like vinyl. IMHO and IME nothing sounds like vinyl except vinyl. Pops crackles and all.

I'll sign off this thread now. The Tranquility is going back to Darko and will go onto the next lucky fellow to have a listen. I would like to thank Bill for his generosity and good will in allowing what is for us, an exotic piece of gear, to do the rounds. And I would also commend Eric and Bill for not trying to exercise any editorial influence in my posts or listening thoughts.

In summary I would say the Tranquility is, in my view, a wonderful dac worthy of your audition.It is undoubtedly one of those products that will stand on its own merits, as indeed it should. It may very well tick all your boxes in which case it will be an end game move.

Cheerio and happy hi fi
Andrew

[satfrat]

Thanks for posting your listening impressions Andrew, even if you had to take heat from the thread regulars to do so. 
 
Cheers,
Robin