[wavelength]

To your question about the Proton, I talked with another guy who's had a ton of the USB dacs including many Wavelengths all the way up to the $3500 Crimson. He said his new Tranquility is quite a bit better than any of his old Wavelength dacs including the Crimson. And he said that the Crimson crushed the Proton sonically (it should though for 3X the price!). I must qualify I wasn't there to hear all these differences but he seemed to have turned over more rocks than myself on the varios USB dacs. I wanted him to post here but he's pretty afraid of some of the other guys attacking him due to their harshness towards my thread. I just don't understand how anyone here could be so hard on a company that brings out such an overperforming dac for so little money. At this point I'm pretty convinced the Tranquility is in a whole different league.
Logged

Just so you understand since I really don't think you have a friend with my products. The Crimson is actually $7500 and you can configure it using dac modules which include my Transcendental NOS module, Numerator 24/96 (192 capable) and Denominator 24(32)/192.

As with all my dacs including the runner up for digital product of the year the Cosecant $3500 which is probably the one your "friend" has... all run on my Streamlength Asynchronous USB code which I wrote myself.

The big problem with using controllers that are fixed at 16 bits at 32, 44.1 and 48 from TI/BB and Cmedia is that their effective jitter is so high in the 3300ns to 5800ns range.

Compare that with even the Proton at 75ps or Crimson at sub 25ps.

Believe me upsamplers, reclockers and whatever will not get rid of that much jitter.

In the end it's does not really matter about the specs or the performance, it only depends on what you like.

Thanks
Gordon

[trianglezerius]

Just so you understand since I really don't think you have a friend with my products. The Crimson is actually $7500 and you can configure it using dac modules which include my Transcendental NOS module, Numerator 24/96 (192 capable) and Denominator 24(32)/192.

As with all my dacs including the runner up for digital product of the year the Cosecant $3500 which is probably the one your "friend" has... all run on my Streamlength Asynchronous USB code which I wrote myself.

The big problem with using controllers that are fixed at 16 bits at 32, 44.1 and 48 from TI/BB and Cmedia is that their effective jitter is so high in the 3300ns to 5800ns range.

Compare that with even the Proton at 75ps or Crimson at sub 25ps.

Believe me upsamplers, reclockers and whatever will not get rid of that much jitter.

In the end it's does not really matter about the specs or the performance, it only depends on what you like.

Thanks
Gordon

Since this a thread about another DAC and you feel the need to promote your DAC. There is a DAC shootout coming up in Texas (date to be determined) send your's along (Crimson) to prove your claims.

Tom

[mcullinan]

This thread sounds something equivalent to the Jim Jones Koolaid camp... a bit scary.

[newzooreview]

Since this a thread about another DAC and you feel the need to promote your DAC. There is a DAC shootout coming up in Texas (date to be determined) send your's along (Crimson) to prove your claims.

Tom

Maybe we can all take a deep breath. 

Someone was reporting a comparison of the Tranquility DAC with one that Mr. Rankin makes. The name and quoted price of his DAC seem to be a mismatch. I agree that he comes on strong with the accusation that the OP is inventing what he reports, but I think it's fair enough for him to provide some facts about his DACs that may be relevant to discussion of the Tranquility.

This comes back to the questions that started this thread about the technical specifications on the Tranquility DAC. Can we just measure jitter of a DAC and call it day? If we agree that this measurement is the determining factor in a DACs sound quality, do we even agree on standards and procedures for measuring it?

My own conclusion is that it's a well-intended focus of discussion when speaking about DACs, but that it's a red herring. The asynchronous USB software is also a red herring. It's likely an excellent tool for improving a DAC's sound, but like the numerous designs of loudspeakers out there, it's not the only, or objectively the best, solution.

There's lot more that goes into producing music from a DAC than is neatly captured in a certain number of picoseconds or nanoseconds of jitter. By the same token, there's a lot more to the differences among speaker cables than their inductance and capacitance measurements. That much is easily verified in double-blind listening comparisons.

I've never heard Mr. Rankin's DACs, but they certainly have a strong reputation. What I have heard is my Tranquility DAC (with Alethias USB cable) in comparison to my PS Audio DL III with Cullen Modifications, and the Tranquility is better by far.

I think it would be terrific if one or more of the Wavelength DACs could be compared in the event that Danny is organizing in Texas (if I understand it correctly). They may or may not anoint a clear winner (I think it's unlikely that one DAC will be obviously better than all others--there will be tradeoffs and personal preferences among a group of top contenders). But it would be better to discuss and debate those results than the hypothetical advantages of one or more engineering details in the DAC itself. The ultimate test is the sound. 

[TheChairGuy]

Yes, please take a deep breathe folks.

I think Gordon's (wavelength) post was appropriate and balanced. 

He's made all of 4 posts in 5 years here at AC...so he's hardly worn out his welcome as a self-promoting gadfly.  Let's enjoy the banter, folks - thanks.

John / co-Facilitator

[srclose]

Seems like trying to correct a potential misunderstanding of a manufacturer's product is more than fair.  No reflection on Eric, but it's interesting how the emotional tenor of this thread doesn't live up to its namesake (Tranquility) 

[dBe]

I originally posted this on A'gon and saw there are some interesting posts on Audio Circle re: the Tranquility USB DAC from db Audio Labs.  I hope you find it helpful for those of you into computer audio or thinking of getting into it.

The Tranquility possesses the dynamic range that we've all come to expect from any gear that we allow to part of our systems. Bass presentation from the Tranqulity is terrific. By comparison bass was totally void with the Wavelength DACs. The Bel Canto DAC3 reintroduces bass but it tends to be a bit muddy and at times gets in the way of the music. Improved bass with the iRoc and the AMR-77 but none of them compare to the Tranquility as you swear it's coming from a source different than your loudspeakers as the seperation from the other instruments is uncanny. Same high praise for mids and highs from the Tranqulity.

While I agree that the bass presentation with the Tranquility is superb, I would not personally say that the bass from the Wavelength DACs is "void.  My take on all of the ones I've heard it tight, controlled and articulate.

 

Dave

[satfrat]

Seems like trying to correct a potential misunderstanding of a manufacturer's product is more than fair.  No reflection on Eric, but it's interesting how the emotional tenor of this thread doesn't live up to its namesake (Tranquility) 

All told, I've learned much more about this DAC thanks to this Component Review than I would have from just visiting the Tranquility website so for anyone who's interested in this DAC, this thread has been a gold mine of information. Demeanor aside, it is serving it's purpose IMHO. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

[srclose]

I agree, really informative and helpful.  Just poking fun about the name.

[gregeas]

I just placed an order. Eric was most helpful on the phone. I will compare the Tranquility with my Pico DAC, Benchmark DAC1 Pre, and my Oppo BD-83 SE. Should be interesting! I wish I still had my Modwright Transporter -- that was the best digital source I've owned.

I would like to see a balanced version of this DAC at some point. Volume control as an option would also be a nice feature. I've had good results connecting the Transporter and DAC1 directly to my amps.

[truant]

I'm looking forward to hearing the feedback from the shootout as well.  While I haven't heard most of the dacs that will be involved I'll be very interested to hear additional respectful opinions of how the dac I do have sounds in the company of others I may have considered.  I also want to hear about the cables used.  I'm impressed with Ridge Street's new usb and my Pure Note Alluvion powercords and ICs are the best I've come across to date.  (There has been a 50% off sale at Pure Note this winter!  This company doesn't get enough attention IMHO.)I find this type of information more helpful than any given review I might come across in one of the audio mags.  So, thanks everyone for keeping this thread going.  I was experimenting with my set up last night by inserting a pair of attenuators into the mix.  Since receiving my Tranquility and upgrading the usb cable and ICs I've found I can't turn the volume up as much as in the past.  The music is so dynamic and the soundstage so much more enveloping that listening can get pretty intense with the volume past 7-8 o'clock.  I had the attenuators left over from several systems ago.  They definitely soften the presentation somewhat.  Increase in volume is much more gradual and I can now easily get to 11-12 o'clock.  There seems to be little or no loss in detail, in fact, I may be hearing more.  Too early to tell which I prefer at this point.  Has anyone else had any experience with attenuators?   

[db audio labs]

Hi Guys,

Here are some technical answers to earlier inquiries regarding power cord sensitivity, our NOS DAC solution, some mis-percetions about "NOS sound", and our unique jitter control.

#1 - Power cords and the Tranquility's sensitivity to different variants - The engineering staff at dB Audio Labs agonized long and hard over the question of the power cord sensitivity with the Tranquility design. Generally speaking, we appreciate excellent power cord technology. However, this comes at a cost - a substantial cost.  So, to turn the phrase a bit, the staff pondered, "Does it make sense to build a DAC the retails for $1495 that requires a power that costs more than double that to sound its best?" Ultimately, the staff decided that this made little, if any sense! The question then became, how to design and optimize the Tranquility to work with lesser power cords without sacrificing the sonics or, said another way, how to desensitize the Tranquility to differences between power cords. Could it be done? The answer is 'Yes!". First, the secondary of the power transformer is damped such that the switch-off of the diodes in the bridge subsequent the power transformer does not resonate with the inductance of its secondary. There is commonly a resonant tank circuit found here with what appears to be a typical bridge rectifier. We also managed to optimize without the use "hexfreds", "Cree diodes", or the like as it would actually degrade the performance. This is about cost and value to the consumer - not about boutique parts in and of themselves. Having taken care of the backward path, the forward path was considered. Here a similarly damped common mode choke is used and these devices, when properly employed, are excellent at taking care of or riding oneself of typical line born noise. Third, having chosen the forgoing, a CLRC or capacitor-choke-resistor-capacitor filter is realized. This further lessens the burden of subsequent voltage regulators and their, in turn, sensitivity of variations in power cords.  Moreover, they work more on a fundamental sinusoidal basis rather than on overtones/noise when their inherent impedance is less effective. From there, the Tranquility uses no less than three separate regulators! - two which are surface mount and one of which is discrete - for the output stages and current-to-voltage converters and dac chip.  (Yes, the engineering staff listened to all of the well regarded thru-hole regulators in addition to the surface mount regulators to make sure which was best!) Further, each manufacturer or brand of the selected regulator was also auditioned before arriving at those selected. Even a few other things, but we've got to still keep some of our design secrets to ourselves. In a nutshell, the totality of our tuning and proprietary optimizations greatly reduces the sensitivity to variations in power cords.

#2 - The general perception about the "NOS sound" and our unique Tranquility solution - There has been quite a bit written and reviewed regarding the typical "NOS sound" (non-oversampled). The general feeling among audiophiles and reviewers alike is that NOS dacs have a more natural (or correct) timbre and are very easy to listen to. Much less "digititus" than most other designs. Where typical NOS designs fall slightly short is their ability to convey bone crushing dynamics and large scale sound. This is where we worked our "R & D tails" off with optimizations never realized before with a NOS dac solution. We wanted it all. Natural easy to listen to WITH the huge dynamic scale and contrasts! We also worked another toward another level in analog like correctness that we feel was seriously lacking in any digital solution regardless of technology. Without revealing our actual proprietary optimizations; we streamlined the digital data pathways in a way never done before. We also spent a ton of time trying many unique components and circuits around the NOS dac along with treatments. Of course, power supply and regulation schemes were paramount too. We paid particular attention to the input receiver implementation. The I/V conversion stage was also addressed in a very special manner. Lastly, we developed a very powerful and extremely transparent output stage that would be welcome many statement level pre-amplifiers costing many times more than the dac itself. To "measure" our ability to find every last bit of dynamics and scale (that are typical of a modern "high tech" digital chipset), we built our own top shelf Sabre dac. (The Sabre chipset is considered one of the most modern implementations to date). We did hundreds of comparisons as we worked toward our dynamic refinements on the NOS solution. In the end we actually managed to achieve the dynamics and scale that are comparable to the Sabre...with a much more natural timbre to boot! A possible first for any NOS dac design offered in the world today. No compromises, the natural sound of NOS design, with dynamics of a modern chipset. The best of both worlds in our opinion. And analog like sonic qualities that set us apart from most of the spectrum entirely 

#3 - Jitter control and mis-understandings. There are few competitors throwing around jitter numbers against their competition, including us, alludes to "big problems" with jitter in all other designs. In general, they are correct in their assertion about jitter being bad but they are VERY incorrect if they are calling out our particular solution that we've managed to develop for the Tranquility. Everything from our digital streamlining to selection of components to the circuits surrounding the input receiver and dac were about keeping jitter at bay. Folks, it's so much more than just a core measurement to realize here. It's also about where the jitter is located and how it is spread across the spectrum. For us the absolute proof of any jitter reduction scheme comes down to how the dac does spatial qualities, depth and soundstage size. Jitter that is the most sonically damaging affects these sonic areas the greatest (in our opinion). If you manage to get a huge, immersive and very deep soundstage without an artificial signature then you have properly attacked the jitter that actually matters. We are proud to say that our dac easily excels in these particular sonic areas and surpasses many other touted "ultra low jitter" designs that have their great "measurement - specifications". That's the proof in the pudding for us. The space, air, sound stage and sonic depth. Other audiophiles may love their "number games", we want to give everyone the best sound possible! Nothing matters more to us than this. We don't prescribe to marketing our products with some sort of "mumbo-jumbo tech speak" that may just fail to actually deliver the statement sound those tech specs may proclaim

Lastly, we have reduced our restocking fee to $75 for the Tranquility DAC. We realize that many want us to have a zero restocking fee policy but our margins are slimmer than many other companies. We also will NOT make our product with cheap and dirty parts either. That would be another way we could get to the zero restocking fee along with a higher price of course. Hopefully others here may realize we actually care about giving you the absolute most for your money with our Tranquility DAC offering.

Cheers!

Eric H

[konut]

Wonderful post, Eric H!  If that had been your 1st post the discussion would have been much different.

[DaveC113]

Thanks for answer #1, what do you consider to be the ideal DIY power cord for your DAC? What goemetry, wire and connectors would you recommend? Of course, I understand the ps has been designed not to vary a lot in sound, but there must be some interaction?

[srb]

We did hundreds of comparisons as we worked toward our dynamic refinements on the NOS solution. In the end we actually managed to achieve the dynamics and scale that are comparable to the Sabre...with a much more natural timbre to boot!

So how much dynamic range did you end up with?
 
Steve

[trianglezerius]

The dynamics from the Tranquility are great. When I initially heard the Tranquility, it was on a system that shows dynamics in great contrast. The system has a $15K Blowtorch Crump designed pre-amp and Parasound JC-1 600W monoblock amps along with the largest VTL tube amps I've ever seen. Everything we played through the Traquility was hugely dynamic and powerful. The AMR player on hand with all the internal separate power supplies and transformers did not sound one ounce more powerful. Actually, I thought the bass was even more powerful from the Tranquility.

[newzooreview]

So how much dynamic range did you end up with?
 
Steve

Are you asking about the measured signal to noise ratio? I think this is different from the dynamics that Eric or others are referring to. DACs typically S/N far better than vinyl, for example, well above 95 dB, but that's only part of the story (obviously, since vinyl can sound better than the majority of DACs and CD players). I think what folks mean by dynamic range when speaking about the Tranquility is the ability to nimbly reproduce the quick, natural shift between soft and loud and the ability to reproduce a well-defined and realistically punchy bass line or the thwack of a rimshot, etc. This is not a S/N measurement but is an overall quality that ultimately derives from a number of design choices. That's my take--I certainly think the Tranquility has "dynamic range" that is excellent when it comes to presenting music with "slam" and texture.

[Marbles]

I do not own this DAC, in fact I've never heard it.

I do know Eric H though.

Eric has a great ear, his hearing is great.

As far as I know, Eric only has two things going on in his life, satisfying the young ladies (half his age mostly) that throw themselves at him and listening to very minor changes he has made to a component, cable, port on a speaker, capacitor etc..

You can go out to a bar with him, and if he doesn't bring a young lady home, it's because he got some action in the parking lot. 

The next thing you know, you will be listening to him asking if you hear a difference in his system when swapping out a tube or a cable or maybe he swapped in a slightly different capacitor somewhere.

He is anal about trying every little thing to see what difference it makes.

If Eric likes this Dac, I'm sure it's because he listened to hundreds of very little changes and picked the best choices.  He does much of his research by listening.

If I was in the market for a DAC, this one would be at the top of my list to demo.

[K Shep]

Since this a thread about another DAC and you feel the need to promote your DAC. There is a DAC shootout coming up in Texas (date to be determined) send your's along (Crimson) to prove your claims.

Unbelievable!

[trianglezerius]

Unbelievable!

Whats unbelievable?