The dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC - Wow!

doug s. · « **Reply #80 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 02:35 am »

eric, when will you have something comparable for us neanderthals that don't think they will be going to computer audio anytime soon?

doug s.

newzooreview · « **Reply #81 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 10:21 pm »

Dear Doug,

The problem, in my view, is that all things being equal, a DAC fed by S/PDIF from a CD player won't sound as good as a DAC fed by well-implemented firewire or usb from a computer.

When a music file is read from a hard drive, the hard drive accurately sends every bit from the original sound file to the computer (and the computer sends it out to the DAC without loss of information). When a CD player reads a CD it does not extract every bit of the sound file--it pulls data off in streaming mode, in real time, and when read errors occur the missing data is simply interpolated. The CD does not re-read like a hard drive will do to extract the data accurately. So, as a source the CD will always compromise the data to some extent.

In addition, the control of jitter over S/PDIF is not great. It's inherently a problem. Eric has alluded to this, but it's not an opinion unique to dB Audio Labs. Ayre, in their white paper on their own USB DAC, explicitly states that they have never offered a stand-alone DAC before since they felt that S/PDIF did not allow sufficient control of jitter. Until their USB DAC they felt that they could only get the best sound from designing the DAC together with the CD transport where they could essentially take the I2S feed from the CD directly to the DAC.

So, two advantages to the Tranquility DAC would be missing if it received input by coax from a CD player.

Obviously there are a lot of well-regarded DACs that do receive S/PDIF input, but it may not be possible to better them (or rival them at substantially lower cost) unless the limitations of CD source and S/PDIF connection are eliminated. In other words the S/PDIF version of the Tranquility DAC would not be the same creature that is getting good comments (or at least generating buzz).

Jonathon Janusz · « **Reply #82 on:** 30 Dec 2009, 01:00 am »

Hello, and sorry for the late arrival to the thread!

Just checked out the web site a little further and was wondering if there is an online ordering/payment system available or if all orders are done by telephone only. I wouldn't want to miss out on the introductory offer if I can't get in touch during normal business hours.

Thanks!

db audio labs · « **Reply #83 on:** 30 Dec 2009, 01:12 am »

Hi Doug S.,

We have been working our "R & D tails off" attempting to develop a SPDIF connectable dac that comes close or equals the sonics of our Tranquility USB dac. As Newzooreview correctly pointed out, SPDIF is a mess when compared to a USB dac (done right). SPDIF pales in comparison to a USB connection, how it elegantly transfers it's data and the error corrected bit perfect sound that a computer offers us. Jitter is on so many more nodes throughout the SPDIF process too, it's not even funny. We like to call SPDIF "an ugly tangled mess". With the SPDIF format, you end up "interleaving" the clock signal with the digital music signal. ARGH! It then has to be all "untangled". USB is elegantly simple without this "tangled mess" comparably.

We are still quite surprised that the audio reviewer community still does not seem to understand this basic principal regarding how SPDIF can't really hold a candle to USB done right. Unless perhaps you use Esoteric's $15,000 Rubidium clock "fixer", and even then, it is NOT a better interface even with $15K "fixer" when compared to a USB solution done correctly! Of course, not every USB dac is "done right" either. And then there's the overtly simplistic idea of comparing the different inputs on a dac that has both USB and SPDIF connections. Multiple digital inputs affect each other negatively. Each one has to be optimized to sound great. And you can NOT achieve multiple different digital inputs that all sound great without a huge cost to the consumer. Each digital input circuit would need to be separated from the other with tons of costly circuitry. Otherwise, the USB input on a multiple input dac can sound abysmal. Is this why so many audiophiles and reviewers think SPDIF is superior?

Ever wonder why the Tranquility dac has only one solitary USB digital input? Now you know aa

So, where do we personally stand on our upcoming SPDIF dac? We are still in the R & D phase. We have many more challenges to properly address all of SPDIF's inherent weaknesses but we are finding some promising results. There are some new IC's that we are testing along with some newfound proprietary optimizations that we discovered. In the end though, we will NOT release a SPDIF dac until we can find the same elusive analog like harmonic structure we found for the Tranquility USB dac design. Look for an upcoming announcement regarding our SPDIF dac late this winter. Sorry we can't give a firm timeline here. We will not offer another "typical sounding" SPDIF dac. It will have to be special.

Happy New Year to all!

Eric H

doug s. · « **Reply #84 on:** 1 Jan 2010, 08:04 pm »

hi eric,

thanks for your detailed reply. i was hoping that, due to new proprietary technology inside your dac, that it would be more immune to typical spdif issues. have you tried glass toslink connections? i know there is disagreement on this, but a lot of folks say that, when done right, it is better than wire.

anyway, i am waiting to hear something that will give a noticeable improvement to my old faithful standby, my modded art di/o. i have heard several mega-dollar digital set-up, none offer any improvements. and, while i have not heard spendy nos dacs, i have not preferred the typical soft, less-detailed sound of nos. so, i would love to find something that doesn't break the bank that will provide a real sonic improvement.

of course, i want it all - spdif and usb in the same box, so as to have future options... and, make it $500...

hippo gnu ears to all,

doug s.

Afterimage · « **Reply #85 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 10:56 am »

Hi Doug? Which NOS DAC's have you heard? dB audio does have the trial policy so you could always buy it, try it out, and if it is not your cup of tea you can send it back.

doug s. · « **Reply #86 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 05:00 pm »

Quote from: Afterimage on 2 Jan 2010, 10:56 am

Hi Doug? Which NOS DAC's have you heard? dB audio does have the trial policy so you could always buy it, try it out, and if it is not your cup of tea you can send it back.

frankly, my nos dac experience has been limited. i have only heard the audio mirror nos dac for any extended time. but, extrapolating on what others have said about this dac, and reading about the sonic signature of nos dacs in general - which the a-m dac certainly had - it wasn't really my cuppa. re: trying the db-audio dac, i might be tempted if i could hook my audio alchemy transport to it.

doug s.

trianglezerius · « **Reply #87 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 05:14 pm »

Quote from: doug s. on 2 Jan 2010, 05:00 pm

frankly, my nos dac experience has been limited. i have only heard the audio mirror nos dac for any extended time. but, extrapolating on what others have said about this dac, and reading about the sonic signature of nos dacs in general - which the a-m dac certainly had - it wasn't really my cuppa. re: trying the db-audio dac, i might be tempted if i could hook my audio alchemy transport to it.

doug s.

Doug, sounds like you would be pleasently surprised by the Tranquility's performance and its convenience considering your limited experience with NOS DAC's.

doug s. · « **Reply #88 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 05:24 pm »

Quote from: trianglezerius on 2 Jan 2010, 05:14 pm

Doug, sounds like you would be pleasently surprised by the Tranquility's performance and its convenience considering your limited experience with NOS DAC's.

it's not at all conwenient for me, as i don't have anything adequate to give it a signal. which is why i queried eric about an spdif wersion...

doug s.

newzooreview · « **Reply #89 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 05:44 pm »

Dear Doug,

I understand the desire to stick with a known source and upgrade the sound via an external DAC. It's been a couple of years since I've moved over to a computer for a source, and it takes some time and fiddling. My transport hopelessly broke, and I'm good with computers, so it was not a hard decision, however. And the results are terrific.

The tools for getting excellent sound from a computer source have improved dramatically in the last two years, and the Tranquility, Ayre, Wavelength, and upcoming Wyred4Sound DACs (among others) are paying critical attention to the details that matter. It is now possible to routinely get better sound from a computer-based system (at lower overall cost) than from a transport-based system; and you get the tremendous convenience and protection from media damage in the bargain. I think that 2010 will see an acceleration in folks moving their high-end two channel systems to computer sources.

One way to look at it would be that now is the time to get maximum value out of your transport and make the switch.

dBe · « **Reply #90 on:** 2 Jan 2010, 06:05 pm »

I'm another late arrival to this thread. I've been lurking through the whole thing, but didn't want to jump in and risk being labelled (libeled?) as a shill or seem argumentative. Since the thread has calmed down and most of the tech issues have been addressed I'd like to add my $.02.

I shared a room with Danny Richie and Gary dodd at RMAF. It was my first venture into the show circuit and I was quite concerned when I found out that everything in the rrom was going to be prototypes except for my products and everything was pretty much going to be battery powered. My fears were baseless. We had a terriffic sound in the rrom and garnered quite a few accolades from the media press.

One of the major players was the Tranquility DAC. I've lived with a Cary 306-200 as my source since they first came out. It sounds fabulous. I have to admit that the Tranquility DAC is better in the HF presentation than the Cary. It NEVER sounded hard or etched in the system. Soundstage was superb (Gary Dodd's stereo amp is flawless) and the bass through the Super V speakers was tuneful as well as possessing unbelieveable impact. female vocals were sweet and wonderful, while Larry Carlton and Robben Ford's guitars sounded like PAF pickups through Dumble amps... just like they should. To say I was impressed would be an understatement.

Paired with the Ridge Street USB cable resulted in amazing music, not merely high end sound. That is the greatest compliment that I can pay to any system.

I just sold my Cary and the dB Audio Labs Tranquility DAC is on my short list for purchase after I recover from Christmas. What else can I say?

I like it.

Dave

K Shep · « **Reply #91 on:** 3 Jan 2010, 05:46 am »

Quote from: db audio labs on 28 Dec 2009, 11:45 pm

Thanks to everyone for their support and constructive feedback!

I appreciate your willingness to reach out to the AC community and provide us with information regarding your exciting new product.

newzooreview · « **Reply #92 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 02:25 am »

Looks like Eric shipped mine today. Should be here before the weekend. It needs about 200 hours for full break-in, but I might give some first impressions on Sunday. I like to listen to music when I watch football rather than the commentators.

trianglezerius · « **Reply #93 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 07:33 pm »

Over the last few weeks I've been a bit amused with some here questioning what I actually heard from the Tranquility. I no longer feel nearly as alone as I did in the beginning. The skeptics had their say and now other people are reporting in with results that absolutely support my conclusions. I hope the others here will start finding out for themselves and be on board so they can enjoy it as much as I did.

Tom

pardales · « **Reply #94 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 07:44 pm »

I should have mine before the weekend as well. Will report sometime next week.

brj · « **Reply #95 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 08:34 pm »

Hello all.

I split out the mini-debate on break-in and moved it to the IGWB, as it was distracting from the focus of this particular thread. A certain amount of wandering off-topic is fine, but please try to keep the thread focus in mind when making posts, and start a new thread in the appropriate forum if needed.

Thanks!

ted_b · « **Reply #96 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 08:51 pm »

Quote from: trianglezerius on 5 Jan 2010, 07:33 pm

Over the last few weeks I've been a bit amused with some here questioning what I actually heard from the Tranquility. I no longer feel nearly as alone as I did in the beginning. The skeptics had their say and now other people are reporting in with results that absolutely support my conclusions. I hope the others here will start finding out for themselves and be on board so they can enjoy it as much as I did.

Tom

I keep reading this thread and keep hearing about how there were so many skeptics early on. ?? I was one of several who were vocal early on...not at all skeptical though.....we were just pleading for some basic information about sample rates. Once that info was released I, for one, have been very pleased to read of its prowess and sonics. I own the Weiss DAC2, and if this DAC can provide a better musical experience (for 90% of my Mac-based server collection) then I'm all ears. I have a great respect for Mundorf (my SP Tech crossovers are all-Mundorf), for example. I have several PM's into Eric with no response yet.

db audio labs · « **Reply #97 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 09:23 pm »

Hi guys,

It looks like a couple people attempted to message me on my old "ehider" moniker link. Unfortunately, I have transitioned to AC's - "db audio labs" message link and didn't think to check my old personal link. ARGH! I apologize to the couple of the AC members who have been waiting. In the future, you can reach me either at ehider@me.com or the "db audio labs" message link here on AC.

For anyone attending CES, please feel free to call the phone number listed on the dbaudiolabs website. That one leads directly to my cell phone during the show. Perhaps we could share a drink and share our audiophile coming of age stories? I will be all over the CES show this year

Happy Listening to all!

Eric H

ted_b · « **Reply #98 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 09:51 pm »

Eric,
Thanks for the PM. I'll try to find you at CES to buy you a "congrats, and my condolences for starting a new business" drink.

(just kidding about the condolences part.....kind of).

Danny Richie · « **Reply #99 on:** 5 Jan 2010, 10:33 pm »

Looking at the current issue of the Absolute Sound on page 74 it appears that Steven Stone put the Tranquility DAC on his short list of "must-audition" components.

It was part of the RMAF show coverage report.

Oddly, the room was called the GR Acoustics room.

That's okay though. They got it right three other times in other places in the magazine where the system in the GR Research room was mentioned, including one calling it the "Greatest Bargain" at the show.