[some young guy]

Like many, I've seen the felt "diffraction units" used my manufacturers here and there. I've heard speakers with them, but I've never been able to A/B them in order to discern any improvement or deficit for myself. Aesthetically; I like my baffles to be bare as I am fond of wood grain. However the audiophile in me always wondered if there would be any real positive benefit from them...

When Jim started posting pictures of the Touchstone Tweeter Surrounds here in AC a couple years ago, I thought "hey, there we go, I should give those a try" It did take me a couple years to get around to it, but I finally contacted Jim and decided to go for a set for my Totem Hawks. I know that Vince takes extra special care when constructing his cabinets, but I figured: why not try?

Now I didn't expect any revelations from these. Frankly: I mostly hoped that they wouldn't go on my long list of tweaks that kill dynamics and hf response...

Well, let me start off by saying that the difference is so profound; you can hear it immediately. By that same token, it's very easy to test: just remove it.

It seems that some of what I had perceived prior to installation as air, was in actuality hf glare coming from the baffles. With the tweeter surrounds in place, the glare was gone and focus had taken its place. Detail quality has improved greatly, especially drums, voices and piano. Imaging and soundstage have a greater illusion of "in the room" presence. There's plenty of air, but it now seems more natural. In short: these truly help bring more natural musicality from the speakers.

Removing them brought my system back to what I remembered. It's still an outstanding sound, but not as refined and I missed them. So surrounding the tweeters they will stay.

My system is now more involving than ever before, which has to be my ultimate goal for playback. These are definite winners and must-haves in my opinion. 

[jimdgoulding]

Sum Yung-  Thank you and I'm glad you're happier with your system as a result of adding the lil bit of love I sent to you.  When diffracted waveforms rearrive, they sum in with the pure signal and this will cause an elevation in the frequency domain where this is the most prevalent.  Remove them and the frequency response becomes smoother and things sound truer.  Additionally, the late arriving diffracted info is out of time and phase.  Absorbing it, what your pads are actually doing to remove it, allows for the things and sensations you aptly describe.  The frequency and time coherence of your speaks is much better served at your listening position.  Speakers, those that my mod will benefit, will disappear more from the music.

Minus diffraction effects, music is released into the room with more vibrancy and realism.   

[batmanslc2]

I concur with some young guy,  must have tweek for "box speakers".
They enhanced my quad 12L active very nicely

[jmudrick]

Jim - I recall seeing an inquiry a while back from another owner of narrow faced, single driver speakers -- mine are Hornshoppe Horns, but never saw any definitive info about whether/how much your surrounds might help a speaker of this type. Waddaya think?

[jimdgoulding]

Tell you what, jmu, I don't really have enough feedback from single driver speaker users to say one way or another with any confidence.  So, I'll make you a proposal.  I don't have a die to cleanly make a cutout as large as we would need.  In the past, I have hand cut the opening from raw material for guys with single driver speaks.  I will tell you that I have gotten pretty good doing this.  What I propose is to send you some bars to go along side your drivers for auditioning.  This will tell us something.  If it's good, we will have another conversation.  You send me any amount you think is fair.  I will match it and send the sum to the relief effort in Haiti.  If your experience using them (I will include the method of attaching) is not sufficient to make you want to invest in whole pads, I will refund your money just like I would for any customer.  If it is, I will apply the amount to the total cost, and/or you may keep the bars.  My address is at my site.  Let's talk further in emails if you would care to proceed.  I will need some measurements.  Cheers.

[Wind Chaser]

My guess is you'll hear a difference.  Years ago Ed Schilling was putting salad bowls in front of the Horns as a cheap wave guide.  Only a hillbilly would think of that.  The experiment was short lived (about a month or so) but he posted pictures and impressions.  If the bowls weren't so difficult to mount and fragile, he'd......... We're talking about Ed, so who knows?

[jmudrick]

Yes Wind Chaser I remember well the Salad Bowl Affair. Never did give them a try as I was worried the vinegar and oil might stain the carpet as it dribbled out (sidewalls of the bowls being too reflective a bit of romaine with Paul Newman's Own was recommended to line the bowls). Jim I'm traveling so will have to wait on getting you the measurements til I get back home but yours is a reasonable proposal, couldn't hurt to try. Will get back with you.

[Wind Chaser]

Yes Wind Chaser I remember well the Salad Bowl Affair. Never did give them a try as I was worried the vinegar and oil might stain the carpet as it dribbled out (sidewalls of the bowls being too reflective a bit of romaine with Paul Newman's Own was recommended to line the bowls).

   As I recall the bowls were clean.  I think Helen caught on and that ended that.

[jimdgoulding]

jmu-  Windchaser is a beneficiary of my product, BTW.  Hi, Wind.   

[drphoto]

Here's a reprint of an email I sent to Jim

This sounds sort of odd, but yours was the first audio product I bought that I did not want to like!

 I mean, they are kinda ugly, no matter what color you dye them. Plus, I wanted to believe the designer of my fairly expensive speaker knew what he was doing.

So after countless hours of taking them off and putting them on....you know what? I can not listen without them. It makes a big difference. So much more of a natural sound, even w/ all the room treatments I've added.

I long ago lost the velcro tabs (have to pick up some eventually) so I've held them on w/ small strips of duct tape, which eventually fail. If I now listen, even without looking at the speakers I can immediately tell if one or both 'woolie pads' have fallen off.

Got to hand it to ya!

Howz that for a weird review?

[satfrat]

Here's a reprint of an email I sent to Jim

This sounds sort of odd, but yours was the first audio product I bought that I did not want to like!

 I mean, they are kinda ugly, no matter what color you dye them. Plus, I wanted to believe the designer of my fairly expensive speaker knew what he was doing.

So after countless hours of taking them off and putting them on....you know what? I can not listen without them. It makes a big difference. So much more of a natural sound, even w/ all the room treatments I've added.

I long ago lost the velcro tabs (have to pick up some eventually) so I've held them on w/ small strips of duct tape, which eventually fail. If I now listen, even without looking at the speakers I can immediately tell if one or both 'woolie pads' have fallen off.

Got to hand it to ya!

Howz that for a weird review?

As a suggestion, I'm now using 3M Dual Lock Low Profile Reclosable Fastener with excellent results. This ultrathin fastener holds the wool pads tight to the loudspeaker surface and in close to a year now, I haven't had any seperation of the fastener from the wool. Besides the adhesive backing, I so used heavy duty staples thru the plastic and into the wool for added support. Using masking tape on the veneer for protection, I've had zero problems and a flush fit, something that's simply impossible to obtain using velcro. Ait of advise, a 10' roll only yields 5' as this tapes seals onto itself. 
 

 
Cheers,
Robin
 
 

[drphoto]

Thanks for that Robin. I'll look for that. The woolies do work, though don't they?

I first thought they rolled off the high end too much. That's why I kept taking them off. But it finally dawned on my tiny brain, that it sounded more like 'real' music and less like 'hi-fi' with them in place. Sometimes, it's hard to let go of preconceived notions of what is correct.

Seem like a good explanation?

[satfrat]

Thanks for that Robin. I'll look for that. The woolies do work, though don't they?

I first thought they rolled off the high end too much. That's why I kept taking them off. But it finally dawned on my tiny brain, that it sounded more like 'real' music and less like 'hi-fi' with them in place. Sometimes, it's hard to let go of preconceived notions of what is correct.

Seem like a good explanation?

 
Your insights closely resemble mine. I hated the looks if this gray wool pad that stuck out loosely as in this picture. My present pad looks nothing like this picture now. I've dyed the pads a Golden Echre that better blends with the veneer and the Low Profile 3M Dual Locks take any gaps the pads use to have out of the picture. A flush pad is a more effective refraction pad also so that in itself is worth the price of these fasteners. I will never go w/o these pads on my 4 Lorelei's as the imaging goes all to hell w/o them. But the velcro and the gray has to go away. Pick a color here and the hate will disapate. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

[drphoto]

Cheers Robin. I envy you. The Lor is a lovely speaker. One of the few talked about heard, Let's just say, I liked 'em.

But, did you feel that the speaker, as designed, should have been "all that" and did not need a band aid helper, such as Jim's?

I sure did.

 I mean I have the highly regarded (and rightly so) Merlin  TSM-MMe. But they can benefit from a cheap tweek? Well...yeah. And again it's just MHO like all things audio.

[satfrat]

I loved my Lorelei's when they were just sitting flat on the floor. But I like them better now. Still I could really relate to you when you said you didn't want to like the Woolies as they're ugly as all get out.    I did a ton of A/B'ing myself but the longer I kept them on, the less I cared to take them off. My picture above was taken at Topround's 2007 NY RAVE and many of the guys there didn't like them on. So when i got them home, I was really second guessing myself but after once again going back and forth with them, I chose the sharp solid imaging that the woolies provided. Guess I'm not alone, hea Dr Photo. 
 
Cheers,
Robin

[jimdgoulding]

Thanks, Doc.  Dahlquist, Vandersteen, and Dunlavy were the first guys to address this in the 70's.  This is the reason high end manufacturers (have a look at the current Avalon line, or Gallo) have begun to design away diffraction effects by reducing baffle space adjacent to tweeters or seriously rolling away their cabinet edges (Thiel, for example).  In doing so, they are reducing or curving away the reflective area.  Reviewers praise how well these type of speakers image.  There is more to it than that.  They also sound more integrated or of one voice.  Multi driver speakers are catching up to planers in this respect and actually surpassing them in delivering a more correct size to images and dynamic life.  This is how your speakers are behaving now. 

Thank you, too, Robin.       

[Wind Chaser]

I mean, they are kinda ugly, no matter what color you dye them.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  We've all seen attractive people mated with less than attractive counterparts, Julia and Lyle, Tiger and Elin etc.  As long as there is a functional fit, that is what matters most.

[dflee]

I love music. I can't imagine a life without it. I really enjoy my audio system including my speakers (Legacy Classics) that have been with me for a number of years now and was really thrown off when The felts were applied. At first I thought something was missing from the sound. I was to a degree happy about sending them back thinking we don't need no stinkin felts, but as I truly listened, I realized that what was missing was the glare. I can't think of a better way of explaining Jim's product than as a Clarifier of the sound being produced. They give a lushness to cymbals, make wood blocks woodier, piano more full and even gives clarity to Neil's (Young of course) voice. This product helped with some of the digititus that I thought was coming from the format. While I'm still getting accustomed to them, I do think this is a good thing. I will keep Jim's felts around my tweeters cause for the price, they can't be beat.
While I;m writing this I am listening to Beethoven pastoral symphony and must say that the felts have made it easier to listen to full orchestra.

Later
Don

[jimdgoulding]

Thanks, Don,  Your system is better that you thought, eh?  Always makes me happy to have brought a man and his music more closely together.  Listen well.