Power conditioners vs. computer UPS

Jon L · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 Dec 2009, 03:44 am »

Quote from: carl_lazlo on 18 Dec 2009, 02:32 am

Jon L, I bought the same unit as you and it arrived today. The fan is very loud. What do you think of this fan I found:

http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=36_37&products_id=24641

Do you think it is any more quiet than the nexus you linked or will the nexus be enough? I will be sitting about 10ft from it.

Can I replace the outlets with the good 20A hospital grade outlets from home depot?

Is there anything strange I need to know before I open the unit or is it pretty straight forward? If I get the 3-2 adapter is the new fan pretty much plug and play?

Thx.

I haven't really heard of the Blacknoise brand but looks well built. It also costs twice the Nexus fan, which is tried-and-true and reference at many PC mags.

Really, I think any purpose-built "silent fan" will be fine, but I do recommend you get the Zalman fan controller for any fan installation. It is often said that NO FAN is quiet enough at full voltage..

carl_lazlo · « **Reply #21 on:** 20 Dec 2009, 12:43 pm »

Thanks Jon. Any thoughts on the other question about the outlets? I'm guessing that the standard hospital grade outlets from depot would work OK?

Jon L · « **Reply #22 on:** 20 Dec 2009, 07:40 pm »

Quote from: carl_lazlo on 20 Dec 2009, 12:43 pm

Thanks Jon. Any thoughts on the other question about the outlets? I'm guessing that the standard hospital grade outlets from depot would work OK?

I like to experiment with different flavors depending on gear, so I fitted mine with ACME Cryo outlet, Hubbell double-cryo IG5362, and Synergistic TeslaPlex (had to install a separate box).

Since Hubbell double-cryo IG5362 is very difficult to find, and since Teslaplex is pretty expensive, I would say try some ACME Cryo outlets, which are excellent. Porter Ports on Agon are reasonably priced as well.

carl_lazlo · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 01:28 pm »

Jon,

Just to double check before I get the order in today..... there is only one fan in this UPS? I have not had a chance to take it out of the box and open it up yet.

Thx!

Quote from: Jon L on 20 Dec 2009, 07:40 pm

Quote from: carl_lazlo on 20 Dec 2009, 12:43 pm
Thanks Jon. Any thoughts on the other question about the outlets? I'm guessing that the standard hospital grade outlets from depot would work OK?

I like to experiment with different flavors depending on gear, so I fitted mine with ACME Cryo outlet, Hubbell double-cryo IG5362, and Synergistic TeslaPlex (had to install a separate box).

Since Hubbell double-cryo IG5362 is very difficult to find, and since Teslaplex is pretty expensive, I would say try some ACME Cryo outlets, which are excellent. Porter Ports on Agon are reasonably priced as well.

Jon L · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 04:21 pm »

Quote from: carl_lazlo on 18 Dec 2009, 02:32 am

Jon L, I bought the same unit as you and it arrived today.

I have the 1000RT, which has only one rear fan. Did you get that or 1500RT? This one is reported to have 2 fans.

My system's power requirements are not very high. With DAC, preamp, 2A3 SET monoblocks plugged into the Liebert, I am still seeing only one LED power indicator light (lightest load).

With 2 fans, I would most definitely put a Zalman fan controller on both fans to ramp down the fan speed until it's quiet enough for you.

If you use massive class-A amplifiers into inefficient speakers, you might want to keep the fan speed a bit higher, but you can tell by how warm the Liebert gets.

Right now, with one fan blowing via Zalman, the top of my Liebert is actually cold to cool to touch..

carl_lazlo · « **Reply #25 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 05:30 pm »

Jon, how did you get the thing open? it seems to have strange screws down both side. Looks like some type of torx. What did you use?

Carl

Jon L · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 06:06 pm »

Quote from: carl_lazlo on 21 Dec 2009, 05:30 pm

Jon, how did you get the thing open? it seems to have strange screws down both side. Looks like some type of torx. What did you use?

Carl

They are Torx, and I had some torx bits that fit in my toolbox.
You could check out your local Radio Shack or try
something like this set from Sears
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00941105000P?vName=Tools&sName=Screwdrivers&cName=Hand+Tools%2C+General+Purpose&cascycle=true

carl_lazlo · « **Reply #27 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 06:16 pm »

It's cool. I found a bit that worked. I'll try to get the fans today.

Thanks!

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #28 on:** 21 Dec 2009, 07:01 pm »

Be careful of the capacitors in there. I got zapped just by touching the case of a capacitor. News to me, I didn't know that was possible.

Bob

Jon L · « **Reply #29 on:** 22 Dec 2009, 06:27 pm »

Quote from: Bob in St. Louis on 21 Dec 2009, 07:01 pm

Be careful of the capacitors in there. I got zapped just by touching the case of a capacitor. News to me, I didn't know that was possible.

Bob

I haven't had that happen, but do keep in mind that there are high-capacity SLA batteries in there! If they are fully charged, touching the wrong parts would not be fun.

I wouldn't touch anything that is connected to the power source, including capacitors. Unlike other UPS's I've worked on, Liberts use proprietary-looking battery enclosure inside, and it was hard to find a single jumper or two to disconnect before working on it for some reason...

carl_lazlo · « **Reply #30 on:** 22 Dec 2009, 06:29 pm »

Yea, I know the danger of caps and HP systems. I used to install undersea fiber optic networks and worked on our 10kw PFE equipment all the time. 400A was nothing to mess with. lol

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #31 on:** 22 Dec 2009, 10:12 pm »

I had the unit unplugged from the wall, and the battery pack removed.
Still got blasted from the top of the capacitors. I know caps store power, that's not my point. What caught me by surprise what the fact you can get japped by touching the case of a cap.

Anyway, it sounds like you belong in there moreso than I do. You know "what's up".

Bob

boead · « **Reply #32 on:** 22 Dec 2009, 10:22 pm »

For some time I had a few of the Furman conditioners, both the $250 ones and the $4000 ones. I compared them to a few different computer UPS’s and the UPS hindered the audio IMO. The Furmans were nice, very quiet and I like them for digital equipment. The very expensive Furmans were absolutely the best I tried but not worth the cost for my system. I use and have a couple of sub $400 Furmans for my Plasma screen and digital sources.
For amps and preamps NON of the conditioners helped, in fact they limited or hindered the audio quality. I plug my preamp and amps directly into the wall or a PS Audio Juice Bar.
You have to listen for yourself and decide. But assuming a UPS will improve the audio is wrong.

Jon L · « **Reply #33 on:** 22 Dec 2009, 11:35 pm »

Quote from: boead on 22 Dec 2009, 10:22 pm

You have to listen for yourself and decide. But assuming a UPS will improve the audio is wrong.

Absolutely. I would never use a general "UPS" for my audio. Most of them generate chopped-up square blocks instead of sine waves, and most of them do not even regenerate power from the battery unless the wall AC is cut off.

This discussion is entirely about "double-conversion true On-line" UPS devices only, and even then, make sure to check their specs say "true sine wave" generation. These devices regenerate true sine AC waves from the battery, not the wall, 24 hours a day, whether wall power is connected or not.

boead · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 05:59 am »

I had a furman that did just that, cost about $1500 of I remember correctly. Ballanced power battery fed and so on. Usage is for venues on generator power. Not desirable IMO compared to straight wall current in the average home.

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=AR-20_II

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=F1000-UPS_PRO

JDUBS · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 06:21 am »

Quote from: boead on 22 Dec 2009, 10:22 pm

But assuming a UPS will improve the audio is wrong.

Why?

Have you tried a Liebert?

-Jim

Frank S. · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 01:02 pm »

Quote from: boead on 23 Dec 2009, 05:59 am

I had a furman that did just that, cost about $1500 of I remember correctly. Ballanced power battery fed and so on. Usage is for venues on generator power. Not desirable IMO compared to straight wall current in the average home.

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=AR-20_II

http://www.furmansound.com/product.php?div=01&id=F1000-UPS_PRO

The Furman UPS you linked to is not a "double conversion on-line UPS". It says it right in the specs- simulated sine wave. IMO a properly sized double conversion UPS such as the Liebert should absolutely be better than the wall power for most systems. The other product linked to is simply a voltage regulator that again, would be unnecessary with an on-line UPS. It is not a balanced power battery fed AC supply as you suggest.

JDUBS · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Dec 2009, 03:51 pm »

Quote from: Larkston Zinaspic on 23 Dec 2009, 03:40 pm

Are there any line filters that are recommended to use in conjunction with the Liebert?

I use a Risch-style balanced power transformer after my Liebert to good effect.

-Jim

gabeg · « **Reply #38 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 11:26 pm »

I've got a Liebert Gxt2-2000rt120 on its way to me. Got it for 200 dollars (plus shipping). Here's my question:

How much power do these units use when the equipment connected to them is in standby? Will this unit draw 2000 watts regardless of whether my equipment is being used? I'd like to keep it running 24/7 as several pieces of my system are meant to be partially powered on all the time but not if my electric bill is going to skyrocket.

Thanks for any info.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #39 on:** 29 Dec 2009, 11:34 pm »

No, you will not notice a difference in your electric bill. A couple cooling fans and some circuitry are all that's on, there is no heavy electrical draw. If somebody had a "Kill-a-watt" meter, I'm curious to know what they're drawing, but I'd venture it's insignificant.

Bob