Should I make Longhorn modifications, and how much would you pay?

Wayner · « **on:** 21 Nov 2009, 07:46 pm »

Frank and I have talked about this. I have all the supplies for probably 6 or so. Is anyone interested in this service or would you rather DIY?

Wayner

ncdrawl · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Nov 2009, 09:38 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 21 Nov 2009, 07:46 pm

Frank and I have talked about this. I have all the supplies for probably 6 or so. Is anyone interested in this service or would you rather DIY?

Wayner

wed have to send our cartridge to you, yes?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Nov 2009, 09:53 pm »

Good for you, Wayner...you'd be a great guy to do it as your quite meticulous with those kinda' tasks.

Frank said in a post a couple years ago when he was on pain meds and he 'spilled' the recipe for the Longhorn....that one of us should go into business modding Grado's. That someone should in fact be you with the skills you have and time to do it now.

Just don't advertise the fact you use Audio Technica AT440MLa's exclusively. That might be bad for biz

Good luck (quite seriously)...John

Wayner · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Nov 2009, 10:44 pm »

Thanks John!

I think I'd rather have people buy the Grado of their choice and send it to me for the mod. I made one today and it does take some time, but I also like to polish up the brass and stuff like that. Yeah, I need some work to do. Frank told me all the secrets, too. I won't spill the beans either, unless I'm tortured. Not a lot, then I will spill the beans rather quickly, but a little and I'm mum. Yes, I think I would like to do this. It's been on my mind for some time and I don't think Frank wants to monkey with it anymore as he is onto bigger and better things, like constantly improving his product line (which has lately kept me busy). Just fleeting Saturday thoughts, while I have a brew or two and spin some much needed vinyl.

Today's list so far:

Emerson, Lake and Palmer: Brain Salad Surgery
Yes, 90125
Genesis: Wind and Wuthering.

On Deck:

Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway
Tears for Fears: The Big Chair
Roy Orbison: Crying

Wayner

RooX · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 01:26 am »

i think you should. I have an original from frank, and it was amazing. (until my wife threw it in a box of computer parts without any protection.... now i think the stylus is trashed.

I would pay what i paid Frank a few years back (maybe 3 or so years ago)... I honestly forget what that was.

For just the mod, well i honestly have no idea.. i guess whatever I paid, minus the cost of a grado cart.

Its probably worth more than i paid, it is really a great cart they way it is set up.

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 03:04 am »

I can vouch for the upgrade itself being a very big improvement.

I have always thought it could be extended to other makers carts as well. Have you tried the LH on any others? You know the "snug fit test drive" to see what effect it will have. You could really be busy with more than just Grados.

rlee8394 · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 03:43 am »

Wayner,

I think you should provide the service. Frank used to charge $99 for his Longhorn Grado. Check with him on what a reasonable price would be. I imagine somewhere in the $50 - $75 range. You may get away with doing "runs" based on the number of advance orders you get. The more people participating, the lower the price. A worthwhile endeavor in any event IMHO.

Ron

SteveRB · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 03:57 am »

I did a longhorn on my girlfriend's Sumiko -- the difference was astounding.

i would like to offer up my Denon 103 for the mod. I really want to see how the pros will do it. Not sure how much i'd pay. Feel free tp PM me to chat about it off-line if need be.

Wayner · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 12:44 pm »

There lies the big problem, shipping. The cartridge would have to have the guard in place so there is no shipping damage to the stylus. Then I would have a shipping problem, because the guard will no longer fit after the modification. That means I would have to find some kind of a small box or something so I could actually mount the cartridge to the bottom of it to protect the very vulnerable stylus. I will have to do some snooping for something to use.

This is usually the problem to doing the mods. It's not just the mod that I'd have to deal with. And if someone does a poor job shipping and I receive damaged goods, then all I can really do is send it back. Well those are all worse case scenarios.

Yes, I'm also thinking it's going to have to be at least $50. There is not a lot of material cost (tho a shipping box may add), but there is some interesting labor to making one of these.

If I do the mods, it will be my hobby, not anything to do with Frank or his business. That would have to be clear right away. Which means if you didn't like it or the work or something else, don't go calling Frank. It's my deal.

Doing other cartridges? Beside there being room for the Longhorn, will it have the same effect, I don't know. Also, a Grado's stylus pulls out away from the body very differently then some other carts. That would depend on the carts construction.

More pondering required.

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 01:55 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 22 Nov 2009, 12:44 pm

Yes, I'm also thinking it's going to have to be at least $50. There is not a lot of material cost (tho a shipping box may add), but there is some interesting labor to making one of these

Wayner:

USPS boxes are free. The small Flat Rate boxes are great for small, dense/heavy loads and cost only $4.80 (+$1.95 for signature confirmation)

The cartridge is so light...even if you use bubble wrap, et al with it...that you might even save some freight shipping it non-flat rate (that is, measured in ounces). I think if it's under either 8 or 16 oz throughout the US, it's more economical to ship non-flat rate.

Either way, the box itself is free.

I ship a lot of stuff this way and I don't remember any of them getting lost along the way

John

rlee8394 · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 03:03 pm »

Wayner,

If the customer is going to buy their cartridge and then send it to you for the mod, then they just need to remove the stylus themselves and send the cartridge without the stylus. This would eliminate the issue of damage.

Ron

avahifi · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 05:19 pm »

In offering to install the Longhorn stabilizer on customer supplied phono cartridges remember there are some significant issues to keep in mind.

First, we did occasionally loose a cartridge in the upgrade process. As long as we were buying direct from Grado in quantity, that was no big deal. But many customer supplied cartridges may be expensive ones and who pays when it arrives defective, or becomes defective when it is returned? Note the stylus assemblies on most moving coil cartridges are not replaceable. I wrote to the only US source about getting my own Denon DL103 restylused, and never received an answer. Its over $300 and god know how long to send it to Yurp to have that done.

Second, not all cartridges can be done. Many have stylus assemblies that "plug in" from the front. This plug in connection is likely not very solid and that eliminates any reasonable location for the stabilizer bar.

Third, what if the end user does not like the result? We offered a satisfaction guarantee and could afford to because the downside risk was minimal. On "one off" work, that could be a real issue.

I am sure we can supply Wayne with stock Grado Green or Blue cartridges if he wants to offer them complete. But with more expensive starting points, I am not at all sure if this makes economic or customer relations sense.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

RooX · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 05:31 pm »

not sure how much more performance would be eek'ed out of a blue or silver vs the green i was using, but I was shocked at how good the modded green was. It had no right to be as good sounding as it was for the 100 or so i paid.

Wayner · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 05:59 pm »

Well, I guess that puts and end to this topic.

orthobiz · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 10:51 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 22 Nov 2009, 05:59 pm

Well, I guess that puts and end to this topic.

Which or What "that" is "that?"

Paul

avahifi · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Nov 2009, 02:45 pm »

I think that Wayne read my observations and decided that the risk - reward ratio for working on phono cartridges sent in to him is not favorable.

However if Wayne wants to proceed with working on brand new Grado cartridges, I can certainly get him some at wholesale prices which will make the ratio much more favorable. It would be really nice to have them available again and I know Wayne's work will be top class or better.

Regards,

Frank

Wayner · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Nov 2009, 10:25 pm »

Yes, I appreciate Frank's candid, yet to the point redirection of my half-baked idea. As this blog progressed, I started to realize that the problems with someone's used or different cartridge would bring nothing but headaches and disappointments. Putting a Longhorn on an unknown result cartridge is certainly a recipe for disaster, one that I would rather avoid.

Yes, I like the idea of starting with a new cartridge but would stick to just Grado, probably the green and the gold. This is a known cartridge to benefit from the mod and is a safer bet.

I think Frank and I will discuss this later, but if things work out, I guess I'd have fun building some Longhorns. I just hope there is enough interest to keep me busy.

Food for thought.

Thanks Frank.

Wayner

RooX · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Nov 2009, 11:25 pm »

as long as prices are not out of wack, sign me up for a silver or gold when and if you do go forward with the project!

Quote from: Wayner on 23 Nov 2009, 10:25 pm

Yes, I appreciate Frank's candid, yet to the point redirection of my half-baked idea. As this blog progressed, I started to realize that the problems with someone's used or different cartridge would bring nothing but headaches and disappointments. Putting a Longhorn on an unknown result cartridge is certainly a recipe for disaster, one that I would rather avoid.

Yes, I like the idea of starting with a new cartridge but would stick to just Grado, probably the green and the gold. This is a known cartridge to benefit from the mod and is a safer bet.

I think Frank and I will discuss this later, but if things work out, I guess I'd have fun building some Longhorns. I just hope there is enough interest to keep me busy.

Food for thought.

Thanks Frank.

Wayner

Art_Chicago · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Nov 2009, 11:36 pm »

Wayner,

Would you list the turntables that should NOT be used with the Grado cartridges? I vaguely remember reading something about hum coming from belt-driven, non-shielded TT equipped with Grado.
Thanks!

Wayner · « **Reply #19 on:** 23 Nov 2009, 11:40 pm »

That would be a tough one Art, but I think we could come up with a list from AC members. It's not the Longhorn mod that makes hum with some tables, but the basic Grado itself (which I knew you knew, but had to say).

Wayner