[audioengr]

I agree with Hantra. Those that are in it for the long run care about the music and the way it makes them feel.  All of us are probably enamored with a new widget from time to time, but in IMO, for most part it always comes back to the music.

I suppose for some there is the feeling that they are missing something that everyone else is getting.  Thus the upgrade treadmill happens.

[PSP]

Audio is one way in my life that I search for beauty (excitement, fun, kicks).  If I could paint, I'd do that, if I had the talent and discipline to play the piano, I'd do that.  I search for more and better because I want to get closer and closer to the center of the music.

As I have improved my system over the years, many times I've had the experience of hearing a recording that's been in my collection for 20 years, that I never much liked, until one day my system improves enough to allow the art to emerge more completely, and finally I get it, and it's beautiful.

Good equipment is a means to an end.  This music/equipment duality argument is a bit goofy, IMO.  Most musicians that I know are extremely fussy about their instruments.... they are not content to express their art on "any old horn"... do you think Yo Yo Ma flies into town and picks up a rental cello on the way to the concert???  I'm no different.  In my experience, I get closer to the art as my equipment gets better.  

By the way, my friends have no idea how much work, DIY sweat and $$$ are involved.  My wife supports (and my relatives tolerate) my audio obsession. so there's no bragging rights or ego involved for this boy.

Peter

[akshobhyavajra]

The biggest part played here is the ability to convey emotion. The stimulation of emotion leads to one pointedness of mind, when this is achieved even for a short time a feeling of euphoria is experienced. Much of how music is percieved depends on our state of mind when we listen to it. Certainly looking for details after performing an 'upgrade', leads to a higher level of concentration with regards to the listener, and this could explain many a percieved 'new sound' or nuance in a track or piece of music. That said some upgrades can make a staggering difference! There are times when we are receptive opon sitting down to listen to music, this receptivatey is due to the fact that we have managed to clear our minds of the outside world and focus our attention, music is far more enjoyable when you can do this, and even lesser components can be enjoyed in this manner.

Raj,

That is one of the best messages I have read on the subject - I concur.  I listen to music to produce a pleasing state of mind.  A change in system topology over the years has actually changed the music I now listen to as well as how I listen.  In like manner more refined equipment has enabled me to be more attentive to music and sublte tonal differences previously veiled.  I spend more time actively listening and paying attention than previously.  I think of it almost as a form of meditation and enjoying the present moment.

Regards,

~Michael~

[Raj]

I spend more time actively listening and paying attention than previously.  I think of it almost as a form of meditation and enjoying the present moment.

Regards,

~Michael~[/quote]


Hi Michael,

Actually not many people learn to grasp this concept right througout life, you are lucky. I was much like you in that I only really listened to certain types of music. It really is important to clear your mind if you really want to 'listen' to what is being played, then you can relate to the true message behind the music or song. We have to ask ourselves how much of a track did we actually hear, maybe a couple of seconds attentivley at most (I suffer from this myself)!

Regards
Raj

[akshobhyavajra]

Hi Michael,

Actually not many people learn to grasp this concept right througout life, you are lucky. I was much like you in that I only really listened to certain types of music. It really is important to clear your mind if you really want to 'listen' to what is being played, then you can relate to the true message behind the music or song. We have to ask ourselves how much of a track did we actually hear, maybe a couple of seconds attentivley at most (I suffer from this myself)!

Regards
Raj

Raj,

I met a fellow audiophile in '94 and he introduced me to the concept of meditation (a student of Jiddu Krishnamurti and Osho).  I pursued my own path in this direction, attending Hindu ashrams, Zen weekend retreats, shamanic drumming circles and Qigong classes.  Over the years the concept of this momentary awareness has been of help not only with respect to life in general and the ability to reduce perceived stress, but specifically with regard to sound and its vibrations (which have an effect on body and mind).  Awareness leads to purification - and may well be the most effective audio "tweak"  

Happy listening to us all!

~Michael~

[Marbles]

Michael, I just saw a pic of your system...very impressive.



I like your creativity too, putting your turntable on a dishwasher so you can just pop your LP's into it for cleaning is a stroke of genius        

[akshobhyavajra]

Michael, I just saw a pic of your system...very impressive.  I like your creativity too, putting your turntable on a dishwasher so you can just pop your LP's into it for cleaning is a stroke of genius

Actually I keep the dishwasher running while playing to add to the three dimensional image of the soundstage.  I am surprised you did not post the "other" system pic...

~Michael~

[DVV]

...

Actually not many people learn to grasp this concept right througout life, you are lucky. I was much like you in that I only really listened to certain types of music. It really is important to clear your mind if you really want to 'listen' to what is being played, then you can relate to the true message behind the music or song. We have to ask ourselves how much of a track did we actually hear, maybe a couple of seconds attentivley at most (I suffer from this myself)!

Regards
Raj

Well, when I sit down to listen to music, I like to close my eyes and clear up my mind of anything else. Hence the armchair. What I'm really interested in is the emotional message, whatever it is. Even not liking it is an active feeling.

If I can't get to at least a part of the emotion, I'm wasting my time, though I'm not suggesting it's necessarily the fault of the artists or media producers. Sometimes it's just not my type of music.

By the same token, music that does move me is a true joy to immerse myself in. Then time literally flies, I find I've been enjoying it far longer than I would rationally estimate.

Cheers,
DVV

[audiojerry]

Raj and Michael, you have expressed precisely my own viewpoints. I am very gratified to hear that others understand this concept: that the driving force behind equipment upgrades for some of us is due to the discoveries we have found in the music, and that these discoveries have propelled us to explore a wider range of music styles. Even our collection of older recordings that did not involve us in the past suddenly become revelations when we listen to them anew after an upgrade.

I've kind of made it a mission to encourage fellow audiophiles to be drop some biases, be more adventurous, and try listening to some new stuff. Maybe not everything will appeal to you, but I've surprised myself at what I have found to be rewarding. I've come to discover and really enjoy various forms of ethnic folk, bluegrass, 50's and 60's Country, Medieval, Mel Torme, Elvis Costello, Natalie Merchant...music all over the board. This is in addition to my usual staples of straight ahead jazz, classical, and movie soundtracks. I guess one common thread is acoustic instruments recorded in natural space (not a recording booth). Although I do enjoy some techno,  Blue Man Group, and 60's and 70's rock. I've got to look into acquiring more international artists. There must be some great music out there that I don't even know exists. DVV proved that by sending out a sample of Hevia with the Dezorel. I'm surprised no on else has commented on that cd.

[audiojerry]

This quote comes from Nathan a few pages back and a few days ago. Sorry I missed out on the discussion between Nathan and DVV, but I've had trouble getting into the forum and have also not had enough time.
Nathan made this comment about head banging music:

Sound waves 'banging' against your head, eh? I suppose that makes sense. I've always known it to mean metal fan, as indicated by the up and down swinging of the 'ol noggin to an appropriate mid-paced beat. (causes lots of neck pain though, I stay away from it as much as possible.
 

First off, DVV, you have no idea what head banging or metal music is until you've heard some of Nathan's stuff. And Nathan informed me that he only allowed me to hear some of his more tame cd's.

Second, Nathan, I think you also have the wrong definition of head banging. After listening to your music last week, I now know the real definition.
Head Banging:  Listening that results in the same damage that one would incur if one continually banged one's head against a brick wall.

[JoshK]

Oh, Michael didn't know that you were the same Michael as the owner of this system.  I saw your system on AR and responded.  I like my Mapltree pre as well.  I think it is seriously one of the best bargains in hi-fi.

[DVV]

This quote comes from Nathan a few pages back and a few days ago. Sorry I missed out on the discussion between Nathan and DVV, but I've had trouble getting into the forum and have also not had enough time.
Nathan made this comment about head banging music:

Sound waves 'banging' against your head, eh? I suppose that makes sense. I've always known it to mean metal fan, as indicated by the up and down swinging of the 'ol noggin to an appropriate mid-paced beat. (causes lots of neck pain though, I stay away from it as much as possible.
 

First off, DVV, you have no idea what head banging or metal music is until you've heard some of Nathan's stuff. And Nathan informed me that he only allowed me to hear some of his more tame cd's.

I stand corrected, Jerry. Yes, you are right, I do not have any idea of what brother Nate listens to, but hope to discover some day.

Second, Nathan, I think you also have the wrong definition of head banging. After listening to your music last week, I now know the real definition.
Head Banging:  Listening that results in the same damage that one would incur if one continually banged one's head against a brick wall.

Cheers,
DVV

[akshobhyavajra]

Oh, Michael didn't know that you were the same Michael as the owner of this system.  I saw your system on AR and responded.  I like my Mapltree pre as well.  I think it is seriously one of the best bargains in hi-fi.

JoshK,

Dr. Lloyd did really well when he designed the pre-amps.  My Ultra is still breaking in - I'm using it with some little AV-8s and it sounds pretty darn good for about $750 (amps / pre).  And the phono sounds a lot better than the KAB PH-1 I used to have on that system.

Even if you're not on a budget - the Octal 6 is amazing with the right tube amp.  I found some old Italian Fivre tubes for the SRPP topology - liked 'em so much I also put 'em in the Ultra.

Regards,

~Michael~

[Raj]

Hey Michael,

This may seem off-topic,
I'm sure your clued up on breathing methods to help clear and control the mind for 'listening' sessions, how about clueing us all up? I sometimes use diaphramatic breathing to help relax and concentrate.


Thanks
Raj

[akshobhyavajra]

Hey Michael,

This may seem off-topic,
I'm sure your clued up on breathing methods to help clear and control the mind for 'listening' sessions, how about clueing us all up? I sometimes use diaphramatic breathing to help relax and concentrate.


Thanks
Raj

Raj,

I don't think breathing methods such as 80/20, Ujjayi, etc are a good idea during listening of music - since the method itself requires attention...taking away attention from the music.  I'd say some breathing exercises before listening to music may be of value - to help with clearing the mind and allow one to be more attentive... esp. since most of us don't know how to breathe properly .  There is some good material about breathing on this site:

http://www.holistic-online.com/Yoga/hol_yoga_breath_home.htm

Regards,

~Michael~

[nathanm]

Dear Audiojerry,

 

Sincerely,

Nathan

Okay the gloves are off now - If anyone's interested to see the Headbanger vs. the Jazz Snob going at it in the Fight Club I'll be making a post there shortly.  (All in good humor, of course )  Come and I'll dispell some myths regarding metal music. Then after that audiojerry and his Nancy Boy acoustic jazz albums will both be put through the virtual shredder!!!

Bring it on, pops!  

[audiojerry]

Dear Audiojerry,

 

Sincerely,

Nathan

Okay the gloves are off now - If anyone's interested to see the Headbanger vs. the Jazz Snob going at it in the Fight Club I'll be making a post there shortly.  (All in good humor, of course )  Come and I'll dispell some myths regarding metal music. Then after that audiojerry and his Nancy Boy acoustic jazz albums will both be put through the virtual shredder!!!

Bring it on, pops!  

OK, Bring it on sonny! I'll be waiting for you in the alley, and I will have Dianna Krall and Patricia Barber with me. You'll recognize them - they'll be wearing spiked hair, spiked heals, and spiked bras!
Who the hell is Nancy?

[eric the red]

my apologies for the rant earlier in this thread-I wasn't even drunk

[DVV]

OK, Bring it on sonny! I'll be waiting for you in the alley, and I will have Dianna Krall and Patricia Barber with me. You'll recognize them - they'll be wearing spiked hair, spiked heals, and spiked bras!
Who the hell is Nancy?

Some broad brother Nate picked up over Internet?

Cheers  

DVV