Decoupling / Isolation Devices ???

StereoNut · « **on:** 7 Nov 2009, 02:46 am »

I know there have been numerous threads/posts on this topic, but I am interested in ideas for different types of isolation between the top & bottom cabinets and/or different spikes/footers under the bottom bass cabinets of my Von Schweikert VR4_Gen.III speakers.

Herbies Audio Lab caught my eye, but I'm sure there are countless other choices to be considered.

FWIW - I have tile flooring on a plywood subfloor over a crawlspace in my listening room.

Thanks!
SN

solentgreen · « **Reply #1 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 03:38 am »

I have VR4jr speakers, which came with the later cone shaped supports for the top module. I live in an apartment and my floor is hardwood on concrete. I read about Herbie's Big Fat Dots being a major improvement on the original spikes and so tried them. They were definitely an improvement, though I suspect that the difference was less with my later cone supports (which has a rubberised coating) than the original spikes which were supplied for the top module.
However, you really must also try Herbies Cone/Spikes Decoupling Gliders for the spikes of your the bass unit. The difference after I installed these on my speakers were amazing; the sound just opened up with massive increase in air and soundstage width and depth. The improvement is at least equivalent to a major component upgrade. For the very reasonable cost of Herbie's products, it really is a no-brainer.

StereoNut · « **Reply #2 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 05:10 am »

Thanks, Solentgreen!

My VR4's have the stock little rubber (?) pads inside the rails on the top of bass cabinet in which the top cabinet "nests" on. Currently, I have 2 sets of 4 very low pyramid shaped footers (that used to be under a pair of spiked speaker stands before I got the VR4's) between the cabinets. I honestly don't remember the brand, but they're made of some sort of black plastic/graphite (?) composite, with a small "dimple" at the top of each where the spikes would sit. I have these footers "point up" with a very small stainless steel ball-bearing sitting in the "dimple" of each and that's now what my top cabinets rest upon. I'd like to think they are better than the stock rubber pads, but it's been so long since I switched anything in/out in that spot, I really don't know! Anyway, I thought Herbie's "Von Schweikert Special" (a combo of Big Fat & Square Fat Dots) might be a worthwhile improvement.

Now you have me thinking that the first thing I should try is Herbies' Cone/Spikes decoupling Gliders. Maybe I need to ask Herbie himself?

SN

solentgreen · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 02:26 pm »

Hi SN,
I am less confident about how much better the Herbie's Big Fat Dots are better than your current arrangement, as what you have now are not the standard spikes. Given the reasonable cost of Herbie's products, I would still say the Herbie's Von Schweikert Special set is still worth trying.
As for whether my views whether you should try the Herbie's Cone/Spikes decoupling Gliders first, well, based on what happened with my system, the answer is definitely yes. To elaborate, before I switched to the Cone/Spike Gliders, I was using the standard Von Schweikert cone shaped metal spikes with matching metal discs as floor protectors. If your current bass unit is supported in a similar way, I am pretty confident you will be very glad you tried the Cone/Spikes decoupling Gliders.
And by all means, do email Steve Herbelin for advise; he is extremely honest, helpful and friendly guy. Also, do look up Steve's own circle here where there are a lot of useful information.

Delacroix · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 03:18 pm »

I'm with SolentGreen on this - the decoupling footers from Herbie's went under my VR5s and never came out. I use them with the Soundocity anchors to give the speaker a strong balanced footprint. They work well together but the Herbie footers will likely work with any spikes you use, stock or otherwise. Another distinct advantage of these is they allow you to slide the speakers around quite easily on wooden floors for precise placement tweaking. To my ears, they made more difference than the Big Fat Dots between the modules and the speaker seems more stable with this arrangement than the stock spikes. Steve's easy to work with, so you only have to invest some time and effort to determine if these work for you. Peace.

ceedee · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 03:27 pm »

Hi SN,

We often put the VSA's on a heavy piece of Hard Stone or Marble to be better based.

Good luck.

Cor

wimck · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 03:45 pm »

I had mine on 6 vibrapods and a marble plate

solentgreen · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Nov 2009, 05:21 pm »

I also tried the 6 Vibrapod support after coming across the article in Soundstage but found that the Herbies Cone/Spike gliders were quite a bit better.
The good thing is that all these products are cheap so it does not break the bank to try them.

es347 · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Nov 2009, 07:49 pm »

It seems that the best speaker anchoring solution depends on the type of floor. I have carpet over concrete and have the VSA-supplied titanium spikes sitting directly on the concrete. It's logical that coupling the speakers to the concrete floor will minimize any cabinet resonance that may be present...although that certainly isn't much with the VR5 Anniversaries. In conversations with Albert, he said that with concrete floors, direct coupled spikes is the best arrangement.

andy747 · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Dec 2009, 09:01 pm »

Hi,

Has anyone tried the Boston Audio Design Tuneplates or Tuneblocks S under the spikes of the bass module of the VR4 Jrs?

Thank you.

Delacroix · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Dec 2009, 02:29 pm »

Quote from: andy747 on 7 Dec 2009, 09:01 pm

Hi,

Has anyone tried the Boston Audio Design Tuneplates or Tuneblocks S under the spikes of the bass module of the VR4 Jrs?

Thank you.

Andy-- Until you posted this, I'd never heard of these products but a quick search turned up at least a mention of them 'likely' to work well with Vons, though the reviewer does not seem to have actually tried it, so treat accordingly:
http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0807/bostonaudio_tuneplate_tuneblock_se.htm

The boston site indicates 30 day return privileges. See: http://www.boston-audio.com/. If anyone springs for a trial, let us know how you get on. For what it's worth, I experimented for kicks with sets of Aurios between the modules to good effect but the wobbly quality of these vibration killers just made me nervous that my upper modules would take a tumble. Hard to enjoy the music when you are sitting on the edge of your seat all the time

rollo · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Dec 2009, 06:55 pm »

Vibrapods between the modules and Spike of the week to carpet. wood floors use numerous vibrapods. A Sue Kraft recco that she used on hers with great results.
For the price of the speakers one would hope that proper footing and or isolation is included but for under $100 your done. worked wonders on the VR6.

charles

andy747 · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 Dec 2009, 08:57 pm »

Hi,

I am using Tuneplate sandwiches (one Tuneplate on top, one Tuneblock Mini in the middle and one Tuneplate on the bottom) between the
M/T modules and bass modules of my VR-4 Jrs. I got the idea from Rick Becker. See: www.enjoythemusic.com/superioraudio/equipment/
0108/von_schweikert_vr_4sr_mk2.htm.

Next, I'm going to try the Tuneblock S's under the bass modules but first I wanted to check if anybody has tried them.

Thank you.

solentgreen · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Dec 2009, 06:28 am »

Hi Andy,

I also came across Tuneplate/Tuneblocks system and the Enjoythemusic.com article after I fitted the Herbie's products with my VR4jrs. I was tempted to try but given the the Herbies items worked so well, and that the Tuneplates/Tuneblocks costs a fair bit more, I have not got round to trying them. Reading through the article, it seems they are working under similar principles to Herbies products thought of course, they may well work better.

It will be iteresting to find out how they compare against Herbies products. Do you mind letting us know the differences you heard after fitting them. I understand its all subjective but was it a major improvement like what you get when you upgraded one of your components to a significantly better unit?

Thanks.

es347 · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Dec 2009, 03:17 pm »

I won't speak for Albert but he has tried this iso method after the review was published and has an opinion. I'll just leave it at that.

McTwins · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Dec 2009, 03:32 pm »

It depends what type of floor one has under the speakers, if it is concret or soft or solid floor, hard wood floor and so on... many aspect to think about. I myself have soundcare superspikes but have tested with and without them, it's hard to tell the difference.

es347 · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Dec 2009, 03:48 pm »

Come on McTwins. You know full well that all these tweaks make a night and day difference.

McTwins · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Dec 2009, 04:13 pm »

As you have it, spikes directly to concret is the best solution. When it comes to hard wood floor it's little bit tricky. Can't hear any difference if I am using rubber feet or the spikes on my hard wood floor.

es347 · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Dec 2009, 04:22 pm »

I'm good to go regarding the coupling between my bass cabinets and the concrete floor but would be open to possible improvement of isolation between the M/T cab and bass cab. I'm not convinced that Albert's rubber cones can be improved upon.

McTwins · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Dec 2009, 04:33 pm »

Gavin, maybe you have right. I am little bit tired of tweaking and have done alot of it. Realized afterwords, what am I doing.

There is only one tweaking, the room.