Religion discussed here....

Sa-dono · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:20 am »

Quote from: Hantra

Quote
For choice to exist, sin must first exist, which comes back to my original question - where did sin come from? If god is all good, how can evil or sin come in to existence in the first place?

Sin came into our world as the result of blatent disobedience to one of God's commands. God grants us all choices, and if we choose to disobey his commands, then we are sinning.

Tyson is right here. While sin may not have come into our world, until Man sinned, Man could not have sinned without the option. You can not choose without a choice. In this case, the choice is to obey or disobey God's commands. In this case the disobeyal is a sin, a choice, and an option. The sin, choice, and option must have existed prior to choosing, or their would be no choice to be made. Please go through that many times if the logic of it doesn't sink in at first.

ABEX · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:25 am »

I think religion as we believe it is a distortion which is why there are so many regretable things which are a direct cause from it.

You cannot talk religion without there being a consideration for all religions and not just the 2 mentioned.

The bottom line is that all religions are based on attaining a higher level of enlightenment and to walk a peaceful path.Wars are created because the basic principles are not followed.Greed creates war which to an extent is a religion.

If leaders understood or followed their faiths there would be no wars. Osama is a good example. He distorted the precepts entirely and due to propaganda was able to spread that distorted view and now has followers willing to blow their god given life up for this yo-yo. Sadaam and Hitler were just greedy evil dictators.

Just thinking!

Sa-dono · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:27 am »

Quote from: Hantra

Imagine if you were a dude with the power to make anyone love you regardless of their will to do so. That would get old after a while, and it would suck really bad. . .

Where have you been? If this was a "dude", aka a man, then can you say mass orgy?

I'm sure Marbles might agree.

Marbles · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:28 am »

Pascal said it was better to beleive and there not be a god, then to not beleive and there is one. He had a weak faith.

Tesla did not beleive in a god even though he wanted to...and he was not stupid...

I would love to delve into the history of why the "Christians" read that catholics, deamonized women. They cut Mary Magdelens role in marriage out of the Bible with very few exceptions and tried to paint her as a whore.

She in fact was Jesus wife and partner, and according to research done by Dan Brown (do your own research if you don't like my source

) Jesus tried to leave his flegling church in her hands.

Can anyone find a positive story about a particular women in the bible?

Were the writers of the bible all gay? Did they hate women?

Marbles · « **Reply #24 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:31 am »

Quote from: Sa-dono

Quote from: Hantra
Imagine if you were a dude with the power to make anyone love you regardless of their will to do so. That would get old after a while, and it would suck really bad. . .

Where have you been? If this was a "dude", aka a man, then can you say mass orgy? I'm sure Marbles might agree.

I would definately agree, but I would change his post to read:

Quote from: Hantra

Imagine if you were a dude with the power to make anyone love you regardless of their will to do so. That would'nt get old after a while, and she would suck really GOOD. . .

Maybe Caligula was a god after all

Hantra · « **Reply #25 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:32 am »

Quote

If leaders understood or followed their faiths there would be no wars.

So you're saying that if we hadn't "persecuted" Muslims, they wouldn't be ATTACKING us, and involved in 28 of 32 world conflicts?

Hantra · « **Reply #26 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:33 am »

Quote

I would definately agree, but I would change his post to read:

You guys are gonna burn.

Marbles · « **Reply #27 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:34 am »

Damn, now were on to politics..lets keep this on religion please...

Tyson · « **Reply #28 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:34 am »

OK, seriously though, here's the real problem with saying that the answer is "choice". By the dogma of christianity, man is imperfect, not capable of living without sin. In other words, man cannot live a good life according to god's standards, otherwise there would be no need for Jesus or his sacrifice. No matter what, we will not be able to get in to heaven by our own merits, it is only through Jesus that this is possible.

If man can never be good enough on his own merits, then there is no point in telling him he has "choice", and that becomes a meaningless phrase.

Marbles · « **Reply #29 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:36 am »

Quote from: Tyson

OK, seriously though, here's the real problem with saying that the answer is "choice". By the dogma of christianity, man is imperfect, not capable of living without sin. In other words, man cannot live a good life according to god's standards, otherwise there would be no need for Jesus or his sacrifice. No matter what, we will not be able to get in to heaven by our own merits, it is only through Jesus that this is possible.

If man can never be good enough on his own merits, then there is no point in telling him he has "choice", and that becomes a meaningless phrase.

Are you saying I can throw out the 10 commandments and do as I please?

There are some neihbors wifes I've been meaning to covet

Tyson · « **Reply #30 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:38 am »

Marbles,
If you know you can't live up to the good life anyway, may as well enjoy yourself a bit

Marbles · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:41 am »

Quote from: Tyson

Marbles,
If you know you can't live up to the good life anyway, may as well enjoy yourself a bit

Thank you for the blessing....it's what I've been praying for

jackman · « **Reply #32 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:41 am »

I'm sorry I've missed this fun conversation. I feel like I'm back in college...except there is no giant bong in the corner and smoke wafting around the ceiling. Those were some fun conversations, we solved many of the world's problems. The only problem is that the next day we could never remember any of the solutions.

Very entertaining stuff, I have enjoyed reading all of your observations and beliefs. Marbles, where did you get that Dan Brown stuff? I've never heard any of that stuff.

Peace!
J

Marbles · « **Reply #33 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:42 am »

Who the hell is Sammy Jenkins?

Tyson · « **Reply #34 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 02:43 am »

But truly, ask any christian if it is possible to live a sin-free life. They will tell you that it is impossible. My question is WHY is it impossible? If we TRULY had choice, then it would actually be possible to live without sin, by choice.

However, that is not what you hear over, and over, and over again. You always hear good people lamenting that they cannot live up to the good, no matter how hard they try. Can you imagine trying to live that way? Trying to live up to a standard you know you are doomed to fail regardless of what you do, to always be unworthy, to never be good, to never, ever, ever be able to be with god because you are GOOD, but only because he takes PITY on your sorry ass.

To me, that is the epitome of a sucky life.

Wayne1 · « **Reply #35 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 03:00 am »

Jackman,

Read "The Da Vinci Code" by Dan Brown.

You may also want to check out his other books.

His research into the Catholic Church is quite fascinating.

Also, check out his website:

http://www.danbrown.com

jackman · « **Reply #36 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 03:01 am »

Thanks, for the info, I have also heard that Brown ripped all of that stuff off from this book:

http://www.hiddenmysteries.com/item100/item179.html

Hmmm???

Wayne1 · « **Reply #37 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 03:07 am »

Here is an link to an article from TIME about Mary Magdalene and Dan Brown

http://www.danbrown.com/media/morenews/time.html

Tyson · « **Reply #38 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 03:07 am »

The whole issue of sin and choice is actually just a side issue to me, just a fun little contradiction that gets religious people riled up because they can't resolve it. The real reason I abandoned the church and all religion is the issue of faith.

I'm a doubting thomas, no question. I want something tangible I can anchor my beliefs on, and that is precisely what religion does NOT give you. They insist that only through faith can one know God. Faith being defined as "belief without evidence". So, in essence, you have a bunch of people "telling" you to believe in an invisible man that lives in the sky. No, they have no evidence that he is really there, but if you just accept it, things will be good after you are dead. And if you do not accept it, things will be bad after you are dead.

I'm sorry, I need more than that. And until something substantial is brought to the table, I remain in agnostic mode.

Tyson · « **Reply #39 on:** 10 Jan 2004, 03:10 am »

And does anyone else see the irony that god supposedly created us with a mind of our own, so we could make a choice, then gives us absolutely no hard evidence upon which to make that choice, in fact DEMANDS that we have "faith", which is the complete abandonment of our minds? To me that is very, very funny.