[cjpcsy]

Thinking of buying gear directly from manufacturer in USA. But I am so unsure about the final $$$ I am going to end up paying. These are the list I can think of with questions that I have. Can someone share some experiences please?

Price and forex (of course)
Shipping and Handling
GST & PST (do they apply to used ones as well?)
Custom Duties (Does NAFTA eliminate this?)
Broker's fee (this kills me from experience with UPS! Would it be different shipping via USPS?)

Anything else?

Thanks for your help!

[zane9]

Price and forex (of course)

US$ declared amount will be converted to CAN$ if there are duties and taxes (see below)

Shipping and Handling

These charges will depend on vendor?s choice of shipping method

GST & PST (do they apply to used ones as well?)

Yes, these taxes apply to used goods

Custom Duties (Does NAFTA eliminate this?)

Yes, if there is clear evidence of made in the USA

Broker's fee (this kills me from experience with UPS! Would it be different shipping via USPS?)

Depending on the weight, size, and how quickly you want the delivery,  USPS will be a better option. Canada Post will levy a small fee. Otherwise, FEDEX may be a less costly option than UPS.

[Bob in St. Louis]

Pardon the interruption (American here). Just the other day I sold an item to a fella in Canada who had inquired about brokerage fees. I've sold to Canada before, but this was the first time I'd heard of it. I wrote him back saying "the price I stated, is the final price. I'll not charge extra fees", and he explained to me it was a UPS fee. I called UPS to ask them what the cost of the broker fee was, and the gal had never heard of it (she is not a new hire. She's worked there for years).

I have, however, heard of Canadian Customs charging a fee that's loosely based on what they feel the value of the contents happens to be at that point in time.

Other than that, I've never had any fee's associated with shipping up there.

Bob

[cjpcsy]

Thanks guys for the replies.

The UPS broker's fees are just RIDICULOUS! They just like rob you right at your own door! I brought some small items once for $19.98 + shipping, total was about $30. Their broker's fee was almost the same as the total price. Plus tax everything, I end up paid almost $90 for a $19.98 item!

Someone said I should have asked UPS first for the fees. But it was not my choice of using them it was the seller. It just made me so nervous buying from the other side of the boarder.

People also said USPS has agreement with Canada Post and only charge $5 flat fee. Anyone heard about that or used them?

[Bob in St. Louis]

  How could that be?

[Wind Chaser]

The UPS broker's fees are just RIDICULOUS! They just like rob you right at your own door! I brought some small items once for $19.98 + shipping, total was about $30. Their broker's fee was almost the same as the total price. Plus tax everything, I end up paid almost $90 for a $19.98 item!

Wow, that's unreal.  Call them, demand an explanation.  I got screwed by FedEX, but not on that scale.  When I complained and asked for them for some justification on their special fees, they gave me a nebulous answer with no real substance.  I let it go because it wasn't worth the hassle. 

Someone said I should have asked UPS first for the fees. But it was not my choice of using them it was the seller.

Remind the seller that you are the one paying for both the product and the service to deliver it.

People also said USPS has agreement with Canada Post and only charge $5 flat fee. Anyone heard about that or used them?

Yes, that is true.  Steve Deckert of Decware brought that to my attention.  Since then I have never had anything shipped from the USA without USPS being the carrier.  Postage fees will seem rather high, but both USPS and Canada Post have to be paid.  Make sure the shipper packs the item properly.

[markC]

I use U.S.P.S whenever possible when buying items from the U.S. Takes a little longer, but it's much less expensive and no brokerage fee robbery. Usually just a flat rate customs fee, ($5 is my experience), and GST + PST.
Then again, I have bought stuff off of Ebay shipped via UPS where I didn't pay anything. No tax, nothing.

[mcgsxr]

I have never had a good, cheap experience with international shipping, that was not USPS.

UPS was the worst, Fedex was OK, but good old USPS is the way to get items shipped up to you from down there, trust me!

[cjpcsy]

Just picked up my 43 lbs amp shipped from US via USPS Express Mail. The CAD$1933.74 amp was taxed CAD$96.69 for GST plus CAD$8.00 "handling fee" (not $5 any more). Total charge at delivery was CAD$104.69.

USPS shipping cost was US$182 when UPS quoted at only about US$70 with unknown "broker fees". I would rather pay the higher but transparent shipping cost than worry about the shocking bill at the door and the trouble of complaint thereafter.

Yahhh, I know, USPS is not cheap and there is no cheap shipping...

[jjsuperfly]

I've two points in response:
1) I agree that USPS is the preferred option, that UPS are friggin' thieves and that all others lie somewhere in between. 
2) shipping via postal service during the Christmas season also increases the likelyhood that the people on the Canadian side won't have time to properly assess your shipment and therefore increases the likelyhood they consider it a gift (and therefore don't assign GST or import fees).  Happens a lot I hear...

[cjpcsy]

One more thing to add for this quiet circle:

The broker's fee of UPS is only applicable to the Ground shipping. If you are shipping through Air (of course a lot more expensive), there is no broker's fee.

[markC]

Shh! Your going to wake someone.
Good advice; thanks. Now back to sleep.

[Captainhemo]

One more thing to add for this quiet circle:

The broker's fee of UPS is only applicable to the Ground shipping. If you are shipping through Air (of course a lot more expensive), there is no broker's fee.

I was going to mention that as well.   Note,  that  you do of course  still get charged the applicable tax/duty   with air shipments,  just no additional brokerage fee..

One of the best ways is to have your item shipped to a  "mail carrier"  service on the other side of the border then drive down and pick it up yourself.    The worst you'll  get hit then is tax and quite often they just let you  go  on your way

[Guy 13]

Hi all Audio Circle members.
Once back in my home country Canada (Province of Quebec, yes, the same province that wanted to seperate from Canada.  ) sometime next year,
I will have to import audio stuff from the US
I will have to do some research to see what carrier is the most reliable,
more important that a carrier that is fast.
For the broker, I use to deal with one when I had my business before I left for Vietnam, well, maybe they are not in business anymore.
I am sure I will have to do lots of running around before I can find the right way.
Also, now in the province of Quebec, you have to pay sales tax with the custom duty import tax.
I think it's 7% but not sure about that.
Maybe an Audio Circle member can share with us/me his experience.

Guy 13

[James Romeyn]

We shipped via USPS our wood/music instrument seasoning device for 2.5 years continuously to farthest corners of the world; possibly more international destinations than domestic.  We have only the highest praise for their service.  Absolutely no claims.  Most international ship First Class, not even Priority.  Yes, occasional delays, but overall value clears every other option off the table.  Other options start at about twice the cost.  How reasonable is it to double every single buyer's shipping fee to guarantee quicker delivery time?  (Just over 2#; we charge $9.99 CONUS, $21.99 all others...our actual cost is a bit higher.)

Re. FedEx: I would never ship anything if this was our only choice.  Two years ago I employed my luthier's FE account to ship a guitars to a show in Ontario; IIRC cost on my CC was just under $200.  A few days later Ryan Thorell (the luthier) calls me and says FE notified him the updated fee was 2.5x the amount earlier charged.  What?  Boy am I glad I kept the CC slip because there's no way I'm letting FE get away with this, me thinks.  I closely examine the CC slip and find, for the first time, fine print at the bottom stating, "Fee Is Estimate Subject To Update" or thereabouts. 

Yes, dear friends, I agreed by signature to pay whatever FE decided to charge me later.  They spun a wheel and decided I was worth 2.5x the original charged amount.  The conversation with the woman at FE was like a Twilight Zone episode.  About twenty minutes of flabbergasted conversation netted me about $35 credit which she gave me begrudgingly, making it crystal clear it was a huge favor and she had no obligation what so ever to credit me anything.

Don't ever be intimidated by a long line of people rushing you to sign anything including a CC slip.  Bring your eye glasses and read every line.

I would have never signed that contract if I saw that line. 

I was glad to see Philips recently close shop on their prior consumer electronics business.  I had several experiences with Philips products lasting about two weeks past their warranty expiration.  Their 3rd party service department in foreign countries was exasperating or worse. 

I personally categorize Philips just above FE, which I define as criminal industry protected by law, masquerading as lawful business.  I would rejoice to see FE cease to exist.  My disdain is difficult to quantify.   

[James Romeyn]

I was going to mention that as well.   Note,  that  you do of course  still get charged the applicable tax/duty   with air shipments,  just no additional brokerage fee..

One of my customers purchased Hypex Ncore amps and directed Hypex to ship to me directly, air from Netherlands to USA.  I received from UPS 4% customs fee + separate broker fee, $7 IIRC. 

One of the best ways is to have your item shipped to a  "mail carrier"  service on the other side of the border then drive down and pick it up yourself.    The worst you'll  get hit then is tax and quite often they just let you  go  on your way

Very interesting, thanks for that.

One interesting thought behind this story: is it morally correct to, by whatever means exist, avoid paying lawful tax, customs, duties as defined by one's local laws and regulations?  I recently heard story that USA IRS targets tax attorneys to check if they pay taxes due for interstate purchase.  For instance: A resident of state X purchases something for $200 on Amazon and pays no sales tax.  By state law he owes X sales tax for that item.  If these tax attorneys do not pay the tax they are guilty of some legal offense.  It's more complicated than that though, because some items like baby diapers are exempt, while Depends for adults may require the tax. 

Actually, the above scenario applies to every resident of state with sales tax.  It's just that no one observes it except for tax attorneys because it violates their business code.   

[fishzoo123]

Which part of Canada are you at?
To me, in Toronto. I order most of my stuff in US and ship to a US brokerage  (free address register). Then I drive to Buffalo or Detroit to pick up during the weekend.
Here's the link to registered for your own US address account: www.kinek.com

Follow the instruction to register. You will have a kinek number. Check out the list of the US address .
Once you have your account number, order as usual in US site and ship to one of the closest brokerage (attach your kinek number).

All they charge is US$4- $5 per item (more for larger items).

Coming back to Canada, if you stay over 48hrs in US, you got $800 duty exemption per person, over 24hrs,you get $200.

[Johnny2Bad]

The options discussed so far are missing the obvious.

Set up an account with a Customs Broker. All you really need is a Credit Card. For items as large/heavy/valuable as audio gear, you don't want to deal with USPS. If it's a small/inexpensive item (say, less than $500) then USPS is OK.

Here's my deal:
CC Account (VISA) (Eliminates courier COD fees, which you pay because they collect GST from you at the door)

Broker has warehouse on US side; carries items across border via truck, then ships Purolator to me via a commercial account. Generally speaking my Purolator charge is $10~20.

I take advantage of free shipping offers from US vendors to US addresses, so my total shipping charge is way lower than USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc

If necessary you can ship direct to Canada and have the Broker handle all customs issues, bypassing USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc charges. Requires a line item on the shipping document, which you get the vendor to fill out. Disadvantage is you are paying shipping to Canada, which is much higher than the free + $20 shipping for items that can be shipped to the US warehouse.

In my case any palleted item or item more than 100 lbs must be shipped as above.

Duties can be higher as a broker is more likely to assess via the code rather than the Low Value Shipment (up to declared value $2000) that the couriers use. Still total costs when all said and done are almost certainly lower than the options discussed previously in this thread unless item is truly inexpensive.

[JoshK]

I have never had a good, cheap experience with international shipping, that was not USPS.

UPS was the worst, Fedex was OK, but good old USPS is the way to get items shipped up to you from down there, trust me!

My experience as well.  UPS is the worst!  Well Purlator, but that is domestic.  FedEx is my go-to when the seller cannot or won't use USPS.  FedEx charges broker fee, not quite as much as UPS, but at least their service is decent and their office is far more conveniently located for me living downtown than UPS.   

[JoshK]

Johnny,

I was not aware of your method.  Can you tell me more about these brokers?  How do I find one?

The problem with your solution is Purlator.  In downtown Toronto, they are abysmal.  Look at their online reviews and its a wonder they are still in business if they weren't subsidized by Canada Post.   They don't even try to actually deliver the package, they just leave slips on your door without ringing the door bell.  I have called and complained about this 5 times and nothing changes and then I am required to drive to Etobicoke to pick up, which isn't even in Toronto.  Even you are really squeeky, you can complain and get them to leave it at one of their retail shops near your place, but why isn't this the typical practice?

Josh