turntable stand needed

toobluvr · « **Reply #20 on:** 24 Oct 2009, 08:22 pm »

Quote from: nature boy on 24 Oct 2009, 08:13 pm

IKEA Lack side table with adjustable screw in points in the bottom of each table leg . It works great and does not get any cheaper.

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40104270

NB

I'm no expert, but when I was investigating it for myself, the consensus seems to be that the "correct" stand depends on the table.

In general....
Sprung tables tend to prefer rigid and light, like the Ikea....while non-sprung tables like rigidity and loads of mass.

Matter of fact, during my research I came across many recs for the Lack table as a cheap and very effective stand for sprung tables.

My table is non-sprung and sounded excellent on the granite surface plate (over 100 lbs!) that I used previously, and it sounds great now on my current butcher block stand.

Wayner · « **Reply #21 on:** 24 Oct 2009, 08:32 pm »

I hate to disagree with you on this one, but I will. What table doesn't like sitting on top of lots of immovable mass like a hunk of granite. I have several tables that are belt drive, sprung, unsprung, direct drive and they all love a base that doesn't induce vibration into the table. You just can't go wrong with a massive TT base, of course, IMHO.

Wayner

toobluvr · « **Reply #22 on:** 24 Oct 2009, 08:43 pm »

Disagree away Wayner!

Like I say, it's not my opinion re: sprung tables, just what I came across in my readings.

nature boy · « **Reply #23 on:** 24 Oct 2009, 08:56 pm »

Should point out that my IKEA Lack table w/ points sets through wall to wall carpeting on a basement concrete slab. I have found this works very well with my Nottingham Interspace, which is a non-sprung fairly heavy mass TT which is belt driven. Your results may vary, I tried heavier mass options and preferred the cheap IKEA w/ a Neuance shelf between the TT and Lack.

NB

toobluvr · « **Reply #24 on:** 24 Oct 2009, 09:29 pm »

The other opinion I kept coming across in my research is that granite rings and should not be used under a TT.

I did not find that to be the case ....not at all!

You just gotta take all these "truisms" with a large grain of salt, and just try stuff for yourself.

Wayner · « **Reply #25 on:** 24 Oct 2009, 09:51 pm »

Bullshit. I worked for a company that makes the suspensions for your hard disc drive in your computer and we used vision to look at stuff under way amounts of magnification, granite was the base for all of our multi-million dollar machines.

W

orthobiz · « **Reply #26 on:** 24 Oct 2009, 10:37 pm »

I just scanned this thread so...
did anyone suggest Mapleshade Audio?
I spoke to the owner once and he said that he has made
custom "double height" speaker stands that are good for
a turntable mount...

Paul

rcag_ils · « **Reply #27 on:** 24 Oct 2009, 11:17 pm »

The Ikea idea sounds good. I go to the local Ikea occasionally. I haven't seen the Lack stand there, but for $7.99 it has to be light. Other idea would be DIY with some 3/4" all thread, very cost effective, but would have to find a way to brace it.

By the way, all my turntables have springs.

toobluvr · « **Reply #28 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 12:33 am »

No bracing required with threaded rods and solid wood, or butcher block.

As an example, see the Mapleshade Sampson racks here:

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/samson2.php

Curly Woods · « **Reply #29 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 01:04 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 24 Oct 2009, 09:51 pm

Bullshit. I worked for a company that makes the suspensions for your hard disc drive in your computer and we used vision to look at stuff under way amounts of magnification, granite was the base for all of our multi-million dollar machines.

W

Sorry Wayner, but got to agree with Toobluvr on this one. Sprung tables like the Linn, Pink Triangle, Oracle, etc. sound much better when installed on a strong, but light weight table or stand.
They just sound so much better on stands of this type. The heavy massive tables rob them of what makes them sound special. The unsprung tables do indeed need a heavy massive support structure to sound their best, as a rule. There are always exceptions, but I have many years of first hand experience with the Linn/Pink Triangle type tables and they do not like being placed on a heavy mass loaded stand that couples them to the environment at all!

rcag_ils · « **Reply #30 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 01:38 am »

Quote

No bracing required with threaded rods and solid wood, or butcher block.

Toobluvr, this is exactly what I have in mind, but will be without the fancy brass hardware, the all thread rod will just be the zine plated stuff.

Why would the sprung turntable sound better on light stand? I thought the purpose of the stand was to isolate vibration from the table , so the heavier the better, the law of physics, no magic there, am I missing something?

Curly Woods · « **Reply #31 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 01:41 am »

Quote from: rcag_ils on 25 Oct 2009, 01:38 am

Quote
No bracing required with threaded rods and solid wood, or butcher block.

Toobluvr, this is exactly what I have in mind, but will be without the fancy brass hardware, the all thread rod will just be the zine plated stuff.

Why would the sprung turntable sound better on light stand? I thought the purpose of the stand was to isolate vibration from the table , so the heavier the better, the law of physics, no magic there, am I missing something?

You are limiting the low frequency trash from entering into the suspension through the tables feet, when they are placed on a stiff, but lightweight table or stand. The light weight sprung suspension tables rely on this as part of their design concept.

The heavy unsprung and heavy sub-based sprung tables like the SOTA's work better on massive, rigid stands, as a rule.

jrtrent · « **Reply #32 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 01:56 am »

Quote from: Curly Woods on 25 Oct 2009, 01:04 am

The unsprung tables do indeed need a heavy massive support structure to sound their best, as a rule. There are always exceptions, but I have many years of first hand experience with the Linn/Pink Triangle type tables and they do not like being placed on a heavy mass loaded stand that couples them to the environment at all!

I agree with you about Linns needing a light, rigid platform, but some unsprung designs benefit from this, too. Rega recommended the light, rigid Sound Organisation turntable stand also, and their current owner's manual suggests a rigid, level, and light shelf or turntable support, and specifically cautions against mounting it on a heavy cabinet.

In addition to Mr. Woods point above about a light, rigid support filtering out the "low frequency trash," another theory I've read is that heavy supports store energy then release it slowly back to your deck, smearing and obscuring the excellent rhythmic properties that are the reason most people love their Regas. Rega likes supports that are like its plinths--light and rigid to quickly dissipate rather than store energy.

Of course, as Mr. Woods also said, there are other turntable designs that were designed with and benefit from higher mass supports. The idea is to find out what type of support promotes the playback qualities designed into your turntable.

Curly Woods · « **Reply #33 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 02:11 am »

Yes the Rega is one of the exceptions for the unsprung tables, but their design is a light weight rigid plinth, so they will indeed benefit from a similar support that the Linn like tables also would. Again there will always be exceptions, but this is a pretty good rule of thumb.

rcag_ils · « **Reply #34 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 03:37 am »

I don't post here much, but now it gives me a reason to, here has wealth of information.

My turntables collection consist of Systemdek IIX, Ariston RD11 Superieur, CJ Walker 55, Harmon Kardon 60C, Project 6.1, and a few others. That means they all should be on light and rigid stands. So any wood type night stands should work. All thread metal rod would not be a good filter.

toobluvr · « **Reply #35 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 03:44 am »

Well....my table has an air bladder built into it for suspension / isolation. I wonder what camp that puts it in?

I have always used rigid and massive, and it sounds so good to me that I have no inclination to try anything else. And that's saying something as I'm a hopeless tweeker and tube roller.

When all is said and done, I say to just trust your ears.

Curly Woods · « **Reply #36 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 08:33 am »

Yes it all boils down to what each individual prefers. I have over 20+ years experience on high end audio retail, so I have seen about every configuration on earth at one time or another. There are many ways to skin a cat, but the engineering behind each turntable design is a little different.

In my experience the light weight tables were designed to reject low frequency, so they as a rule, like to see as little low frequency energy from stored mass that they are sitting on, as it can excite them and ruin the bass. The heavier turntables typically like to be placed on very rigid, massive supports. There will always be exceptions to these rules, but this is a good rule of thumb and a sound place to start.

Wayner · « **Reply #37 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 11:17 am »

Apparently,

Sprung turntables like to have low bass garbage energy get absorbed by their bass.

Also mass stores energy (maybe as heat).

Did I tell you I have a granite bass and all kinds of TTs?

It doesn't boil down to what each person prefers, it's about science. There isn't a table in the world that wouldn't love to sit on top of an immovable surface, that doesn't vibrate in concert with each bass note played. Whether it be a little sprung AR-XA or an Empire 598 or an Empire 398 or even a Technics DD.

Wayner

Curly Woods · « **Reply #38 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 11:53 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 25 Oct 2009, 11:17 am

Apparently,

Sprung turntables like to have low bass garbage energy get absorbed by their bass.

Also mass stores energy (maybe as heat).

Did I tell you I have a granite bass and all kinds of TTs?

It doesn't boil down to what each person prefers, it's about science. There isn't a table in the world that wouldn't love to sit on top of an immovable surface, that doesn't vibrate in concert with each bass note played. Whether it be a little sprung AR-XA or an Empire 598 or an Empire 398 or even a Technics DD.

Wayner

As I said Wayner these are observations from over 20+ years in the high end audio business. I you do not agree that is not my issue. It has been proven over and over again to me and by me. If you don't see the logic, what can I say. Do as you wish.

Wayner · « **Reply #39 on:** 25 Oct 2009, 12:21 pm »

Well, I've been spinning LPs for 45 years and have had many tables. Perhaps the solid surface a granite base provides, exposes the poor quality of some of the sprung tables that you have used. Because they are sprung, they have a resonance frequency.

I will continue to use my granite bass and recommend that to anyone with a table.

Wayner