Eastern Electric DAC

Levi · « **Reply #600 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 02:17 pm »

Thanks again Wayne.

Clearly there is a huge possibility of hot rodding and gaining profit from upgrading the EE Dac. However, you are not the only one who can upgrade or can make a cost effective modification to the DAC. I am sure you are already aware of that. Just want to put things back into your attention. A 5.5Liter Mercedes has plenty enough torque for a regular Honda user. AMG proves to have more engine than the chasis can handle. Sometimes it is better to build the whole thing from scratch rather than hot rodding a Honda, Acura, BMW or Merc etc. For me, a simple tube rolling or OPAMP upgrade here and there should do the job.

Besides, the EE DAC sounded good to begin with.

Quote from: Wayne1 on 28 Apr 2010, 01:17 am

Levi,

Paul bought those op-amps off of E-bay as part of a "bulk buy". At individual pricing, they would go for closer to $20.00 each. For a manufacturer to use those same parts, they would most likely add at least $100.00 to the retail price of the DAC.

Bill has mentioned to me that he would like to have the new V-cap Copper Teflon Film caps installed in his DAC. First, I am not sure they will fit. Second, even if they DO fit, the largest value made may not be big enough. They would have to be used as bypass caps. Maybe using the OIMP caps for the bulk of the value needed. The MINIMUM those caps would cost, parts only, is $300.00. That is just for the tube stage output coupling caps. We have not even gotten close to what the PS regulators might cost.

All kudos to Alex and his team for building a fantastic sounding DAC for a great price. What I am going to try to do is tweak the last bit of performance possible from this unit. Cost not a consideration. Following Bill's simile, the standard BMW or Mercedes cars are very good. They are built to a price point. The M series and AMG cars are all about pure performance, cost be dammed. That is what I am going to try to do.

Occam · « **Reply #601 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 05:46 pm »

Levi,

IMO, you're viewing this unfairly. I charged you that minimal amount for the parts, as you're a friend, I wanted to see what the dac was capable of, and I happened upon a screaming deal on one of the opamp models. If you think that is anywhere what any rational, competent modder would charge you are sadly mistaken. And frankly, you had no business telling anyone what you reimbursed me. You didn't pay for the mod, not labor, R&D, overhead, or any markup on parts. You reimbursed me for just my out of pocket expenses and to put Wayne in a position where he has to compete against such an off the wall ridiculous 'price'. Wayne will offer the same chip swaps (if not better) and improve the dac in other ways that are far more labor and R&D intensive.

And what do I get out of offering whatever suggestions I can to Wayne?
I get Wayne to do those other non-chip mods on my own dac in exchange. I did the easy stuff, and while it is a substantial improvement, I am more than willing to exchange my efforts for Wayne's expertise to take it beyond that level.

FWIW,
Paul

Levi · « **Reply #602 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 06:11 pm »

Hi Paul, I am truly greatful for all your efforts. I said many time already. We are clear with that. No gray areas here.

mumford · « **Reply #603 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 06:52 pm »

Just wondering: are the single op amps used as low pass filters, while the dual op amps are used for the op amps output stage. So, if I am using the tube output stage, the dual op amps are not used?

I think it is about time for me to open the case and see what I can do. After all, I do have some OPA627s sitting inside a box somewhere on the shelf.

Just another thought: maybe I can relocate the entire power supply to a separate box, in order to gain needed room for interesting mods inside the Eastern Electric case.

Bill@LakeGeorge · « **Reply #604 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 08:34 pm »

I have some great nos rare tubes for this dac, they all sound very very good.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80666.0

ajayrav · « **Reply #605 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 08:48 pm »

Maybe Wayne (and others) could consider offering different levels of mods so interested parties can either get the mods done step-wise as resources permitted, or get it all done in one fell swoop! Just a thought....

evan1 · « **Reply #606 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 08:49 pm »

Quote from: Levi on 28 Apr 2010, 02:17 pm

Thanks again Wayne.

Clearly there is a huge possibility of hot rodding and gaining profit from upgrading the EE Dac. However, you are not the only one who can upgrade or can make a cost effective modification to the DAC. I am sure you are already aware of that. Just want to put things back into your attention. A 5.5Liter Mercedes has plenty enough torque for a regular Honda user. AMG proves to have more engine than the chasis can handle. Sometimes it is better to build the whole thing from scratch rather than hot rodding a Honda, Acura, BMW or Merc etc. For me, a simple tube rolling or OPAMP upgrade here and there should do the job. Besides, the EE DAC sounded good to begin with.

And what is wrong with hot rodding a Honda ? something wrong with the factory radio. Nothing that 5-8 grand can't fix

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1630

pixy · « **Reply #607 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 09:41 pm »

Quote from: Occam on 27 Apr 2010, 05:38 am

Both pairs of opamps were changed out, the pair of singles NE5534 used for I/V (current to voltage conversion) as well as the dual opamps, NE5532 used in the solid state output stage. IMO, Alex chose those chips to provide excellent sound at his price point, but generously provided sockets for those cost constrained chips to allow easy swaps for appropriate (by both objective and subjective measures) upgrade chips. I'm not disclosing those chips at this point, as I've more experimentation to do when I get my own dac. But I do know this, the EE dac has great 'bones'.

Regards,
Paul

Hi Paul,
Just wondering what OPAMP did you chage for pair of singles NE5534 and NE5532 used in the solid state output stage.
OPA627 and AD826 respectively?

I really like the sounds of AD826

Wayne1 · « **Reply #608 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 09:41 pm »

Quote from: ajayrav on 28 Apr 2010, 08:48 pm

Maybe Wayne (and others) could consider offering different levels of mods so interested parties can either get the mods done step-wise as resources permitted, or get it all done in one fell swoop! Just a thought....

I do intend to offer different levels of mods. This would be better off being discussed in the mod thread, I believe.

Eastern Electric DAC mods

mjosef · « **Reply #609 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 12:00 am »

Quote from: pixy on 28 Apr 2010, 09:41 pm

Hi Paul,
Just wondering what OPAMP did you chage for pair of singles NE5534 and NE5532 used in the solid state output stage.
OPA627 and AD826 respectively?

I really like the sounds of AD826

U might need to ask the Mad Hatter that Q...

Occam · « **Reply #610 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 01:57 am »

My Grandfather was a hatter on the Lower East Side. And in his dotage, he
actually was quite squirrelly ....

Quote from: pixy on 28 Apr 2010, 09:41 pm

Hi Paul,
Just wondering what OPAMP did you chage for pair of singles NE5534 and NE5532 used in the solid state output stage.
OPA627 and AD826 respectively?

I really like the sounds of AD826

Quote from: Occam on 27 Apr 2010, 05:38 am

Both pairs of opamps were changed out, the pair of singles NE5534 used for I/V (current to voltage conversion) as well as the dual opamps, NE5532 used in the solid state output stage. IMO, Alex chose those chips to provide excellent sound at his price point, but generously provided sockets for those cost constrained chips to allow easy swaps for appropriate (by both objective and subjective measures) upgrade chips....

That pair of chips used for I/V serve their function for both the tube and solid stated output stages and is critical for either's outputs. As Jon L mentioned previously, the OPA627 demonstrably makes an excellent I/V converter. But by objective measures, certain other, bi-polar input, high precision, low noise opamps should give better measurements. Others, who I respect, are evaluating similarly specified chips from other manufacturers. This is in the vague hope that one might actually extract anything approaching linearity at low levels with 24 bits. Fat chance...

The AD826 would no doubt work quite well. It would certainly be able to drive the heck out of long and/or capacitive cables. But I'm unsure as to whether it would easily allow the removal of the extant output coupling capacitors in the solid state filter/output stage. Its for that reason I've tried fet input duals to replace the pair of NE5532. Using electrolytics as coupling caps with minimal polarizing voltage is something I'd like to avoid, and the fet-input output opamps should facilitate their removal. Presently, on the modded EE dac, I prefer the solid state output stage ( I already have 5 tubes in my line stage), but hopefully, removing those caps would increase both extension and resolution.

Hope this helps,
Paul

Levi · « **Reply #611 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 11:39 am »

Evan, this just states that I know what I am talking about when I said about modifying cars

Enjoy your Maverick Dac, perhaps one day you will get a better DAC like an EE DAC.

Having said that, the USB input with tubes enabled running PC or Mac truly sounds excellent with this dac.

Quote from: evan1 on 28 Apr 2010, 08:49 pm

And what is wrong with hot rodding a Honda ? something wrong with the factory radio. Nothing that 5-8 grand can't fix

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=1630

Levi · « **Reply #612 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 09:06 pm »

Evan, I am sorry you failed to understood my point. My experience with modification specially with cars simply state that sometimes it is better to live them alone. A Modified Honda is still a Honda. Suspension mods make them handle really well. But a A $10k turbo engine is far too risky. Insurance does not cover engine mods and proves to even lower resale value. A $7k stereo system covered by insurance + it can be extracted for the next car. LOL.

As for Wayne, Robin and Paul's point, GOOD audio parts can cost exponentially high. Ultimately there is far too much cost cutting that was put into the Maverick dac ($195).

We all want good sound. In my opinion, you have spend over $1k to beat the EE DAC. It already has a 5.5L engine in it.

evan1 · « **Reply #613 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 09:11 pm »

Quote from: Levi on 29 Apr 2010, 09:06 pm

Evan, I am sorry you failed to understood my point. My experience with modification specially with cars simply state that sometimes it is better to live them alone. A Modified Honda is still a Honda. Suspension mods make them handle really well. But a A $10k turbo engine is far too risky. Insurance does not cover engine mods and proves to even lower resale value. A $7k stereo system covered by insurance + it can be extracted for the next car. LOL.

As for Wayne, Robin and Paul's point, GOOD audio parts can cost exponentially high. Ultimately there is far too much cost cutting that was put into the Maverick dac ($195).

We all want good sound. In my opinion, you have spend over $1k to beat the EE DAC. It already has a 5.5L engine in it.

Levi

I will not get into it here. You are obviously the one that doesn't understand after putting your foot in your mouth numerous times

Levi · « **Reply #614 on:** 29 Apr 2010, 09:15 pm »

Thanks!

Gopher · « **Reply #615 on:** 30 Apr 2010, 05:38 pm »

woo hoo! I just received a pair of Siemens Silver plates in the mail. Can't wait to give them a listen.

Carlman · « **Reply #616 on:** 30 Apr 2010, 06:09 pm »

Quote from: Bill O'Connell on 27 Apr 2010, 10:44 pm

Thanks, I just wrote my webpage guy and asked him to shake a leg. I will have audio junkies correct the price to $750 also.

Thanks for looking out.

Bill

Glad that guy finally shook his leg! Sheesh!

Bill@LakeGeorge · « **Reply #617 on:** 30 Apr 2010, 07:32 pm »

Quote from: Gopher on 30 Apr 2010, 05:38 pm

woo hoo! I just received a pair of Siemens Silver plates in the mail. Can't wait to give them a listen.

I'll be interested to hear your impressions I just put my pair of Silverplates up for sale because I thought the 1957 Mullard Longplate Square Getter that Bill recommended to me bested it.

Gopher · « **Reply #618 on:** 1 May 2010, 03:40 am »

I'll definitely let you guys know how they sound although my system is about to have a bunch of variables changed at the same time. I just got a ton of cables for the Nagy's tour.

I'm conflicted as to what to do. It would make more sense for me to at least keep my tube (Mullard) the same so I have a baseline for the changes these cables bring, but I wanna start burning in these Siemens' as from the way its been described it may be my end all.

Occam · « **Reply #619 on:** 1 May 2010, 06:10 pm »

Its with a good bit of embarrassment

I'd like to correct some erroneous information I posted. The NE5532 dual opamp serves as the I/V for both channels, and its the single NE5534 that serves as the solid state output stage for each channel. My prior comments on the desirability of a precision opamp in the I/V still applies, as does the preference for a fet-input (and/or precision low offset) single opamp to replace the single 5534s to facilitate the removal of the solid state output signal coupling capacitors.

Mea culpa,
Paul