Eastern Electric DAC

srb · « **Reply #20 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 06:26 am »

Alex,

Will the USB input decode greater than 16/48 (24/96? 24/192?), and will there be a BNC connector for the S/PDIF input?

Thanks,

Steve

bravophase · « **Reply #21 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 10:14 am »

Quote from: srb on 27 Oct 2009, 06:26 am

Alex,

Will the USB input decode greater than 16/48 (24/96? 24/192?), and will there be a BNC connector for the S/PDIF input?

Thanks,

Steve

Hi Steve,

The USB only supports up to 48KHz. We do not have the BNC connector, but the RCA and optical for the S/PDIF input.

Cheers !

Alex

Jon L · « **Reply #22 on:** 30 Oct 2009, 08:32 pm »

Bill or Alex, any more specifics on this DAC? I'm *THIS* close to pre-ordering it.

Have you chosen which tube type and which tube topology to use?

Is the I/V stage done with op-amp, and is there another op-amp stage after I/V stage for the "SS output"?

Most importantly, when will it ship?

TIA.

bravophase · « **Reply #23 on:** 31 Oct 2009, 08:25 am »

Hi Jon,

After the low pass filter, the analog signal will be fed to the tube or ss amp stage by a selector switch. By tapping this switch, the signal goes either to the tube or the ss stage. The tube will be a single tube amp stage and the ss will be opamp. The tube will be a 12AU7. To conclude, the tube and the ss stage they stand alone each other, you only choose which one to put out (amplify) the final analog signal.

I hope the above helps.

Oh by the way, the shipping is about 2-3 month as this is the first lot and I hope everything runs smoothly

Cheers !

Alex

Jon L · « **Reply #24 on:** 3 Nov 2009, 12:27 am »

Just some more information from Alex:
----------
Great! Thanks for the info. 2 quick Q's:

1. Can E80CC tube be used in the 12AU7 spot just like the EE preamp, which I used to use?

2. Is the SS output going to use dual op-amp or single op-amps and be socketed? Thanks.

"1. Yes you can plug in the E80CC
2. it will be a socketed dual opamp aa

Cheers !

Alex"

Gopher · « **Reply #25 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 06:54 pm »

It might be premature to ask as I realize this isn't a finished project yet, but is there any idea how this thing will do with respect to reducing jitter?

My main transport will probably be a Squeezbox Duet (w/ unmodified parts connection PSU) and I'm wondering if it would make sense picking up a Monarchy DIP (48/96?) or springing for the Boulder digital mods for that matter...

Forgive the question if its obvious to the informed, but I am a digital separates newbie.

richidoo · « **Reply #26 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 07:25 pm »

The DAC chip used in this DAC is ESS Sabre32, which eliminates jitter internally. I use it now in a DIY project and can attest that jitter problems from Squeezebox and Sonos network players or cheap CDP are eliminated.

I had EE minimax preamp with 12AU7 gain and buffer stages, Alex knows line stage tube design! My favorite 12au7 tube is the stock EE chinese tube, although I think I may be alone in that preference....

Ultra clean low distortion, no tubey sweetnin.... That's what this great chip deserves.

Will the DAC make use of the chip's internal 256 step, 32 bit digital volume control? It is software control of the chip's register. That allows 96dB of attenuation before dropping any bits from 16 bit CD playback. Then it can be connected directly to amplifiers with no VC digititis.
Thanks
Rich

srb · « **Reply #27 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 07:29 pm »

We'll have to wait for Alex to answer, but as in the previous post, richidoo is already implementing it and likes it. Per the ESS Product Brief, one of the key features of the ESS Sabre32 chips is:

"Patented Time Domain Jitter Eliminator - unmatched audio clarity free from input clock jitter"

http://www.esstech.com/PDF/Sabre32%20DAC%20PF%20081217.pdf

Sounds promising!

Steve

Gopher · « **Reply #28 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 09:38 pm »

Quote from: richidoo on 6 Nov 2009, 07:25 pm

The DAC chip used in this DAC is ESS Sabre32, which eliminates jitter internally. I use it now in a DIY project and can attest that jitter problems from Squeezebox and Sonos network players or cheap CDP are eliminated.

I had EE minimax preamp with 12AU7 gain and buffer stages, Alex knows line stage tube design! My favorite 12au7 tube is the stock EE chinese tube, although I think I may be alone in that preference.... Ultra clean low distortion, no tubey sweetnin.... That's what this great chip deserves.

Will the DAC make use of the chip's internal 256 step, 32 bit digital volume control? It is software control of the chip's register. That allows 96dB of attenuation before dropping any bits from 16 bit CD playback. Then it can be connected directly to amplifiers with no VC digititis.
Thanks
Rich

Terrific to hear! I'd read something suggesting that but wasn't sure what to expect. Forgive my ignorance again, but then can a SB Duet streaming lossless audio and doing bit-perfect to this DAC take utilize it to its fullest capability (i.e. would there be any benefit to a re-clocker in the mix) or should I just go straight to?

Finally, if the SB Duet is capable of bit perfect and the jitter problems are greatly reduced by the DAC's chip, would there be any real appreciable benefit to sending this SB out to Boulder to perform the digital stage modifications? (I'm hoping not)

Jon L · « **Reply #29 on:** 6 Nov 2009, 11:00 pm »

Those familiar with Sabre32 DAC chip, can you confirm that Sabre32 DAC chip automatically upsamples to 864 kHz internally, so it will always have the Asynchronous upsampling "on"?

If true, I'm not so sure I like this always-on asynch upsampling feature...

TV Man · « **Reply #30 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 12:47 am »

Jon,

Not sure what the frequency is, but 834khz sounds about right. The upsampler is always on... it's integral to the Buffalo jitter reduction scheme.

I come from the no oversampling, or synchronous oversampling camp. That said, the Twisted Pear version of the Buffalo is the best DAC I have heard opamps and all. It gets the flow of music right. Detail is remarkable, but not aggressive. They got the digital filter part right. I prefer it to all the TDA154x and PCM63 DACs I've had. It's better than the PCM1794 too, although the PCM1794 might be a touch more dynamic..

With a properly implemented tube output stage ala Eastern Electric I can think more about amps and speakers because I know what my next source will be...

Bill O'Connell · « **Reply #31 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 12:59 am »

Hi Guys,
Alex should be chiming in shortly, remember he is 13 hours ahead of us.
I wish I could answer your questions but Alex really is the man you want to talk too.
I love the fact that the E80CC can be used the DAC. Fantastic tube especially the D getter pinched waist version.
I remember running a pair of them in our little preamp. Dynamic to say the least. Retrieval of all that was in the recording was stellar.

FYI: Just about a week left on the preorder pricing.Jump on it if you can as I promise it will be a really special DAC.
Thank you all for considering,
Bill

Jon L · « **Reply #32 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 01:08 am »

Bill, can we assume the DAC will come with a remote control for remote volume control?

Approximately how large will the DAC be, along the lines of EE BBA or EE CDP?

srb · « **Reply #33 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 04:30 am »

Bill,

Is the casework completed? Can you show us a photo?

Steve

TV Man · « **Reply #34 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 07:42 am »

A correction.

I was looking at Wavelength Audio's Denominator module that uses the Sabre32 chip on their website. They use syncronous clocking, so there is a mode that allows the Sabre32 to use sync instead of async sampling. Hopefully Eastern Electric will use the syncronous mode.

Apologies for initially posting wrong information.

richidoo · « **Reply #35 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 02:56 pm »

I replaced Altmann Attraction DAC (Phillips 1543 I think) with this. A couple of swaps back and forth was all it took to convince me to pack up the Altmann. It is peaceful and natural like NOS, but extended and unbelievably resolving, with no treble irritation.

I plug my stock Sonos ZP-80 straight into the DAC with a Home Depot analog IC for digital wire. I feel no desire to change anything.

The Altmann had UPCI jitter attenuation scheme, which did help on mild cases, but the Sonos was unlistenable, the jitter is so bad in that thing. It all vanished with the Sabre32. Duet and Squeezebox have less jitter than Sonos and they were OK with Altmann and sounds the same as the Sonos on the buffalo DAC. It's the analog output that matters.

The Buffalo uses 4562 opamps which give great ballsy bass and very low distortion, clean sound, not lean, not thick. Stage is a little flat in depth compared to a tube, but otherwise excellent. I would be concerned about slobbering a vintage 6sn7 over this ultra clean DAC, but like I said, Alex's 12AU7 tube stage is the cleanest I have ever heard, plus space and air of a tube.

Edit: I got nothing against slobbering 6sn7's I have them in my amp with 6sl7s and 300Bs, but not ideal for a DAC.

mumford · « **Reply #36 on:** 8 Nov 2009, 12:08 am »

rack mountable?

tubesound · « **Reply #37 on:** 9 Nov 2009, 03:28 pm »

I think this dac would be better off by only having the tube output stage because that's where Eastern Electric's strength is. If the op-amp stage is inferior to the tube stage, then what's the point to add this extra component? And EE can keep the costs down a little bit.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #38 on:** 9 Nov 2009, 03:54 pm »

We will see how well the op-amp stage is implemented. I'm not sure that Eastern Electric had offered an op-amp output stage (IIRC), so let's see what they can do with this one. I think that they are making a good decision to make the op-amp stage socketed, so that we can experiment with different op-amps, much the way one might tube roll.

And there are a number of very good reasons that one might want the option to switch back-and-forth. System synergy is very important, as we all know (hopefully), and there is a lot of personal preference involved as well in terms of tube vs. solid-state sound. And for those who listen to multiple genres of music, certain genres may be considered better suited for one genre than another. Heck, one may even find oneself changing up the sound because of one's mood.

And even with the switch between the two analog output stages, this remains the least expensive ESS Sabre based DAC that has caught my attention.

My two cents.

tubesound · « **Reply #39 on:** 9 Nov 2009, 04:19 pm »

Quote from: roscoeiii on 9 Nov 2009, 03:54 pm

We will see how well the op-amp stage is implemented. I'm not sure that Eastern Electric had offered an op-amp output stage (IIRC), so let's see what they can do with this one. I think that they are making a good decision to make the op-amp stage socketed, so that we can experiment with different op-amps, much the way one might tube roll.

And there are a number of very good reasons that one might want the option to switch back-and-forth. System synergy is very important, as we all know (hopefully), and there is a lot of personal preference involved as well in terms of tube vs. solid-state sound. And for those who listen to multiple genres of music, certain genres may be considered better suited for one genre than another. Heck, one may even find oneself changing up the sound because of one's mood.

And even with the switch between the two analog output stages, this remains the least expensive ESS Sabre based DAC that has caught my attention.

My two cents.

I'd rather EE spend money on the part they're best capable to do. Down the chain, we still have the pre-amp/amp/integrated to adjust the sound for example. Just my thoughts though. One question: how to bypass the volume control on this dac since I'm using an integrated amp? (This volume control can be taken out too to further cut down the costs).