[mfsoa]

Hey great minds, ya' know...

[Bill O'Connell]

Yes, the output impedance is high but Alex says it really isn't a problem.

 But, with that being said the DAC is not a preamp, it is a DAC with a volume control. You can get away with possibly running tube amps directly, but Solid State amps we do not recommend. The DAC is not meant to replace a preamp and definetely not for SS amps direct.

[stefan534]

Hi Bill,
Can you please comment on the output impedance of the dac? The manual lists it as 22K for tube, 10K for SS.

I'm no engineer and I don't even play one on TV, but aren't these values kinda high for a source?  Has anyone ever reported issues with driving an amp directly from the dac? 

Can anyone tell me the output impedance for a "typical" CD player (whatever that is?)

Isn't the 22K output impedance actually higher than the input impedance of many amps? I think you'd be hard-pressed to maintain the optimal 10:1 input:output ratio I see recommended.

I ask just out of curiosity as I use an active pre and the sound is still friggin amazing.

But just wonderin'...

Thanks

-Mike

Yes, the output impedance is high but Alex says it really isn't a problem.

 But, with that being said the DAC is not a preamp, it is a DAC with a volume control. You can get away with possibly running tube amps directly, but Solid State amps we do not recommend. The DAC is not meant to replace a preamp and definetely not for SS amps direct.

Just to add another opinion to the mix -  6moons review:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac.html

Direct drive: With a 2.5 or 3V max signal strength via its transistor/tube outputs respectively, the MiniMax should drive the vast majority of commercial amplifiers to full power - even my 3V input sensitivity white Trafomatic Audio monos. Because its attenuator operates in the analog domain like most quality preamps, direct drive won't incur resolution decimation at very low playback levels. Naturally there's no additional gain from active preamp circuitry but for many systems without analog sources, the MiniMax DAC could indeed replace a preamp. Here it becomes preferable to converters which offer digital attenuation exclusively.

If anyone can explain in laymens terms why some people are talking about output impedance and Srajan is only interested in voltage I'd appreciate it! I take it Mike, you were worried that the Minimax DAC might be a little underpowered to drive a power amp directly?

My concern would be the opposite. I'm hoping to plug it straight into a Quad99 ( solid state) power amp. I generally have to sources down when I plug them in. Was hoping the supposedly high quality volume control on the Minimax would allow me to turn down the volume without loss of quality usually associated with turning down volume on my PC. ( which will be feeding the DAC)

Cheers, Stefan

[mfsoa]

No worries for me as I'm using a tube pre after the EE dac anyway. I did briefly try the dac directly into the DAC Cherry+ amp and it sounded very good for sure. But I need the switching and it sounds better to me through my pre.

-Mike

[Levi]

Congrats on the EE Dac Mike. 

[Kinger]

So I'm curious how many of you owners are doing Wig suggests and are running the unit out of phase (Red?) vs. in-phase (Green?)?

[Big Red Machine]

So I'm curious how many of you owners are doing Wig suggests and are running the unit out of phase (Red?) vs. in-phase (Green?)?

You're not hallucinating as it certainly sounds interesting.  I have no preamp right now so can't do any serious listening but I tried it once.

[Bill@LakeGeorge]

So I'm curious how many of you owners are doing Wig suggests and are running the unit out of phase (Red?) vs. in-phase (Green?)?

I tried it a few times, once when I first got the EE and just recently after his post, to me it just made the music sound dull and lifeless, no soundstage or depth.  Switching back brought everything back to life.

[srb]

Have any of you discovered that the EE Dac sounds better with the phase switch lit red?

It is possible that one of your other components is also reversing phase and having the EE DAC on the reverse phase setting returns the system to correct absolute phase and sounds "right".
 
Steve

[mjosef]

. Was hoping the supposedly high quality volume control on the Minimax.

Dunno if I would call a Blue Alps "high quality", it certainly is a good volume pot.

As to the reversed phase mode...I found the sound to be somewhat scattered and unfocused. Regular 'green' sounded more coherent IMO/IMS.
What srb posted may apply...different systems...

[Bill O'Connell]

It is possible that one of your other components is also reversing phase and having the EE DAC on the reverse phase setting returns the system to correct absolute phase and sounds "right".
 
Steve

 Thats's what I think also, not everybody's system is in phase, heck I heard rooms at RMAF that were out of phase.

[Wig]

 All very good points! I never thought of it that way, just thought it was the recording but I'll do more experimenting when I return from vacation since my AES/EBU cable should be broken in by then. I do have the polarity switch on my pre-amp set to B, It provided the cleanest sound before integrating the EE. That may be the reason why it sounds better out of phase. Also, the silverstar hifi tuning fuse really adds more detail and depth.

Wig

Thats's what I think also, not everybody's system is in phase, heck I heard rooms at RMAF that were out of phase.

[cpalcott]

Just to add another opinion to the mix -  6moons review:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac.html

If anyone can explain in laymens terms why some people are talking about output impedance and Srajan is only interested in voltage I'd appreciate it! I take it Mike, you were worried that the Minimax DAC might be a little underpowered to drive a power amp directly?

My concern would be the opposite. I'm hoping to plug it straight into a Quad99 ( solid state) power amp. I generally have to sources down when I plug them in. Was hoping the supposedly high quality volume control on the Minimax would allow me to turn down the volume without loss of quality usually associated with turning down volume on my PC. ( which will be feeding the DAC)

Cheers, Stefan

I am also curious about this. I f this is not meant to be a preamp that can drive a SS or tube amp directly, then what is the point of adding the volume knob into the chain? Why not just a line level out? Perhaps Alex could chime in. I was about to pick one of these up, but not if I have to have a preamp in the mix as well.

[Big Red Machine]

I am also curious about this. I f this is not meant to be a preamp that can drive a SS or tube amp directly, then what is the point of adding the volume knob into the chain? Why not just a line level out? Perhaps Alex could chime in. I was about to pick one of these up, but not if I have to have a preamp in the mix as well.

You really need a decent preamp for great, holographic sound.  Remember, this is a dac that just happens to have a volume control, probably for convenience.  It is not a preamp circuit, per se.

[JLM]

But, with that being said the DAC is not a preamp, it is a DAC with a volume control. You can get away with possibly running tube amps directly, but Solid State amps we do not recommend. The DAC is not meant to replace a preamp and definetely not for SS amps direct.

You really need a decent preamp for great, holographic sound.  Remember, this is a dac that just happens to have a volume control, probably for convenience.  It is not a preamp circuit, per se.

Impedance matching aside, and noting that I'm running a purist system with only stepped attenuators connected in the back of my solid state monoblocks, what are the disadvantages of not having a pre-amp following the EE DAC?

Conversely, if a pre-amp is so vital, why have a volume control on a (in the greater scheme of things) high-end product?

And seriously, other than being a tube fan, why wouldn't you recommend following the EE DAC with a solid state amp?

Note that with these comments I'm quickly going cold on this DAC.

[oneinthepipe]

Impedance matching aside, and noting that I'm running a purist system with only stepped attenuators connected in the back of my solid state monoblocks, what are the disadvantages of not having a pre-amp following the EE DAC?

Conversely, if a pre-amp is so vital, why have a volume control on a (in the greater scheme of things) high-end product?

And seriously, other than being a tube fan, why wouldn't you recommend following the EE DAC with a solid state amp?

Note that with these comments I'm quickly going cold on this DAC.

A pre-amplifier takes the source's low-level signals and amplifies them to a level that is most useful for an amplifier.  I am merely a consumer, but this appears to be a delicate process.  In my experience, pre-amplifiers have been the hearts of my systems.  A good signal into the pre-amplifier is essential, which is the function of the DAC and the transport or server preceding the DAC.

[Big Red Machine]

Note that with these comments I'm quickly going cold on this DAC.

It is a superb dac for the money.  Get a nice preamp and enjoy the pairing.

[John151]

I am wondering if there are synergies using the EE DAC with the EE Pre-Amp?  Can anyone comment on this? 

[Bill O'Connell]

I am wondering if there are synergies using the EE DAC with the EE Pre-Amp?  Can anyone comment on this?

 I believe Gopher is using a MiniMax preamp with his DAC and he has enjoyed the combination. I know I have also, of course I'm biased.
 Although the MiniMax is getting a little long in the tooth these days and I'm waiting for our new fully balanced/RCA  tube preamp called the Avant to arrive in 2 weeks.
 There are some photos in the review of the DAC of the preamp at 6moons. here is the link for those who haven't seen it yet along with our new tube integrated.

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac_2.html


 Kindest Regards,
 Bill

[Bill O'Connell]

I believe around $1550-$1650.Depending how much Customs,taxes and shipping will be.

 Thanks for considering,
Bill