Driver control

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srb

Re: Driver control
« Reply #20 on: 30 Sep 2009, 04:53 pm »
I can't really discern a difference over single or bi-wiring my Opera Diva floorstanders using the same equivalent wire gague and the same wire material and construction for both methods.  I also have more trouble A-B-ing something that can't be compared with the instant flick of a switch.
 
But I find it interesting that B&W recommends it in their owners manuals, although they don't sell speaker cables.  They don't make cable brand/model recommendations, just general guidelines such as keep lengths as short as possible without coiling or kinking and preferably equal lengths.  But they do say don't use cheap freebie wire and to consult your audio professional.  The bi-wiring recommendation could simply be a way to throw an extra sales perk to their dealers.
 
This is what they say on bi-wiring:
 
Bi-wiring is the preferred method of connection.
 
The separation of the signal paths improves the resolution of lowlevel detail and allows the user to optimise the type of cable to the frequency range of use.
 
Steve

vegasdave

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #21 on: 1 Oct 2009, 09:39 pm »
I'd say an advantage bi-wiring is the removal of shorting straps. I've heard they compromise the sound.

gerald porzio

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #22 on: 1 Oct 2009, 10:01 pm »
 
The separation of the signal paths improves the resolution of lowlevel detail and allows the user to optimise the type of cable to the frequency range of use.

Steve McCormack, however, advocates the use of identical cables for those desiring a biwire configuration. At the end of the day it seems, ya pays ya money & takes ya choice. 


srb

Re: Driver control
« Reply #23 on: 1 Oct 2009, 10:09 pm »
I'd say an advantage bi-wiring is the removal of shorting straps. I've heard they compromise the sound.

Yes, but that in itself could be inexpensively accomplished with 4 - 3" lengths of speaker wire to replace the shorting straps.
 
I am using a cable containing 4 - 14ga wires, so for me, bi-wiring was simply the addition of 2 extra banana plugs on each side, rather than connecting the wires together at the speaker end.
 
I suspect bi-wiring may have a greater or lesser effect on different speakers depending on the design and components of the crossover network.  Here, YMMV is certainly applicable.
 
As B&W points out, having a different type of wire for lows and highs may be a big benefit.  This forum is full of comments about a particular wire working great for the high end, but mucking up the low end and vice-versa.
 
I'm not that sophisticated, and it seems it would take a lot of trial and error and auditioning to find out which two different wires provided the best combination for a particular speaker.
 
Steve

vegasdave

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #24 on: 2 Oct 2009, 08:30 pm »
Well, my speakers are set up for bi-wiring, so would bi-wiring be a benefit?

It won't cost me much to get more wire...

Question for James: Is it possible to use bare wire and bananas with the 4BSST?

James Tanner

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #25 on: 2 Oct 2009, 08:55 pm »
Well, my speakers are set up for bi-wiring, so would bi-wiring be a benefit?

It won't cost me much to get more wire...

Question for James: Is it possible to use bare wire and bananas with the 4BSST?

Yes just put the bare wire through the hole in the speaker binding post.

james
« Last Edit: 2 Oct 2009, 11:07 pm by James Tanner »

vegasdave

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #26 on: 2 Oct 2009, 10:19 pm »
Cool, thanks.

Napalm

Re: Driver control
« Reply #27 on: 25 Mar 2010, 06:10 am »
Mhhh I did some extensive research on this bi-wiring thing 1 year ago.... and at that time I found an article with a PSPICE simulation which was pretty persuasive in explaining that what you'll get with bi-wiring is altering amplitude/phase of signal hitting the crossover filters, around the cross-over frequency. Unfortunately I cannot find  the article now and I can't be bothered learning how to use search in the "web archive".

I've also did some experimenting with long runs of cable (15 feet as as to make differences easier to discern) on 2 different sets of speakers - Energy RC10 and Paradigm Studio 100. What I think I heard was supporting the article's finding.

To explain it simply:

-when you are single-wiring, the voltage at the entry point of the high-pass filter is the same as at the entry point for the low-pass one (as they are shunted together at the speaker terminals). The crossover will work as designed (and if competently designed will send signals of proper frequency, amplitude and phase to the tweeters/woofers).

-when you are bi-wiring, THE WIRES BECOME PART OF THE CROSSOVER FILTER. As now the point of same voltage is at the amplifier's output terminals. It would be equivalent to the situation where the amplifier is connected to the speakers terminals with an ideal 0" length cable, BUT you add 2 long runs of cable INSIDE the speaker, from the speaker terminals to each of the crossover filters input.

So next time a speaker manufacturer uses language like "DESIGNED for bi-wiring", ask them if the matching cables are included in the box. Since in a bi-wiring arrangement they are part of the crossover filter, they should be of an exactly specified impedance as to ensure that the crossover works as designed (the cable impedance would be part of the design).

Other speaker manufacturers are more prudent and use milder language like "allows bi-wiring" or "compatible with bi-wiring" or "2 sets of terminals for bi-wiring applications". That's OK with me.

Nap.  :evil:
 

vegasdave

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #28 on: 25 Mar 2010, 09:23 pm »
Cool. Thanks for sharing that.

math-geek

Re: Driver control
« Reply #29 on: 1 Apr 2010, 02:27 am »
I agree with James 100% on this topic.

I am using Dynaudio Contour 1.3 SEs, which do not allow biwiring, and am using 9 gauge Zu Audio Wax cables with them and they seem to be a great match.

Buy the largest cable that is usable for you application and not worry about it anymore.  If you can pass 500 wpc or more than you want large gauge cables, end of story.  Oh, and keep them as short as possible.  The better your equipment is the more likely you are to notice a difference in cables.

JohnnyB

Re: Driver control
« Reply #30 on: 1 Apr 2010, 09:44 am »
In summary:

Keep your sources on a sidewall (or at least in a corner), away from the area between the L/R speakers (improves soundstage to keep the area between the L/R speakers as open as possible).

Run long interconnects.

Monoblocks right next to speakers optimal.

Cheers, JohnnyB

vegasdave

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #31 on: 1 Apr 2010, 08:22 pm »
That's exactly what I do. I agree with all of that. However, I have 1 stereo 4BSST between the speakers. I can't afford the Bryston monoblocks!

alexone

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #32 on: 2 Apr 2010, 07:09 am »
That's exactly what I do. I agree with all of that. However, I have 1 stereo 4BSST between the speakers. I can't afford the Bryston monoblocks!


Dave,

if you have a Bryston Stereo amp then you have two monoblocks between your speakers. i know that you know what i am talking about...but we shouldn't forget. :thumb:

best,

al.

vegasdave

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Re: Driver control
« Reply #33 on: 2 Apr 2010, 07:59 pm »
Of course.