Turntable suggestions for a Newbie...

Laundrew · « **on:** 13 Sep 2009, 04:30 am »

Greetings,

There is a lot of information in this circle and it is almost overwhelming - especially for a "very wet behind the ears" newbie such as myself.

But first, a very brief introduction of how I came across the sound of vinyl - again. I was auditioning my last tick in the box for preamplifiers earlier this year and I was a little disappointed that I did not get a wow affect from the preamplifier/CD audition.

The sales representative then inquired if I wanted to hear some vinyl.

I have not listened to this format in well over twenty years and I was a little curious. The turntable (complete) and the CD player that were in the system were both in the $6K range and they were using a tube phono section. I could not believe the difference in sound between these two formats and I was very impressed with the vinyl format - it was definitely a "wow" affect. I literary went from I do not enjoy the sound of this CD/preamplifier combination to wow this sounds awesome when we switched over to the TT/phono stage. The turntable was a Michell GyroSE and I do not remember the make of the phono stage.

What I would like are some suggestions for a turntable in the $5-$10K range (not including the cartridge or phono stage) and perhaps their pros and cons.

I am going to actively pursue my TT quest early next spring. I have so much to learn between now and then - it will be a very steep learning curve! My mono blocks are solid state as well as my preamplifier - I am leaning towards a tube phono stage at this time.

Any suggestions would be appreciated - in the meantime, I have a lot of reading to do.

Be well...

JimJ · « **Reply #1 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 05:39 am »

Hard to go wrong with anything in that price range

wilsynet · « **Reply #2 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 08:02 am »

I have an old JVC QL-Y66F which TheChairGuy recommended to me, together with a the budget giant killer Jolida JD-9A with some NOS tubes. I modified the JVC as per instructions and I've got something that competes with any sub $2500 turntable that I've heard in the store.

As far as I can tell, TheChairGuy's new favourite turntable is the VPI Classic which retails for $2500. If I were buying a turntable today, I'd probably think very seriously about the VPI Classic as he hasn't steered me wrong yet.

jrtrent · « **Reply #3 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 12:45 pm »

Quote from: Laundrew on 13 Sep 2009, 04:30 am

. . . in the meantime, I have a lot of reading to do.

I'm afraid I don't shop in the $5000-10,000 range, but it sounds like you found a good candidate in the Gyro SE (it would be interesting to know which arm and cartridge were on it). There is a poster named Fretless at the Vinyl Asylum who has written often about his experience with this 'table and has had a chance to compare it with many other turntables at various price points. You'll find he favors the qualities of pace, rhythm and timing over such things as detail retrieval, frequency extension, and imaging (a bias I happen to share), but there's a lot of entertaining and informative reading in his observations, and enough comparisons to other turntables to give you an idea of some competing models to consider. Hope this link works . . .

http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?searchtext=Gyro+se&b=AND&topic=&topics_only=N&author=fretless&date1=&date2=&slowmessage=&sort=date&sortOrder=DESC&forum=vinyl

kingdeezie · « **Reply #4 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 01:02 pm »

I just want to chime in as a still vinyl "newbie."

It didn't take long for me to get sucked into vinyl, and after some budget table exploits, I purchased the JA Michell Gyrodec SE with JA Michell Tecnoarm.

I will say that it is a fantastic table IMHO. I am sure that there are tables out there, costing much more I am sure, that as someone bathing in hyperbole would say, "kill the Gyrodec in A, B, and C qualities," but of all of the tables in its price range I felt it was at the top.

The thing that attracted me to it at first, and I am sure this is a big audiophile no-no, is the looks of it in its price range. There wasn't much else in its price range that I thought exuded such class and beauty. There sure are some interesting designs out there that some might find more modern, but I thought the Gyrodec just looked very classy.

MOST IMPORTANT PART HOWEVER: As a newbie to vinyl, as you say you are as well, setting this table up was not the easiest thing I have done. It was the first time I had ever done it, installed a cartridge, mounted a tonearm, etc, etc, etc, etc. I still don't think I have it perfect, and it was quite the experience.

I will say that most people agree it punches well above its class, and I have seen people outfit them with some serious tonearms (SME V, Graham Phantom) and cartridges and note improvements from what they had before.

A review I once read said something like, "If the Gyrodec SE was the last table I ever bought I could be satisfied, even after hearing more expensive tables at shows..." I think it was the positive feedback review if I remember correctly.

Good luck in your search, vinyl is one of the best things I've ever gotten into; its an experience every time I listen.

Laundrew · « **Reply #5 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: kingdeezie on 13 Sep 2009, 01:02 pm

The thing that attracted me to it at first, and I am sure this is a big audiophile no-no, is the looks of it in its price range. There wasn't much else in its price range that I thought exuded such class and beauty. There sure are some interesting designs out there that some might find more modern, but I thought the Gyrodec just looked very classy.

Hello kingdeezie,

I could not agree more, the aesthetics of this turntable are awesome - it almost looks as it is alive.

Be well...

Nels Ferre · « **Reply #6 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 02:52 pm »

Hi,

SOTA definitely deserves attention at that price point. You can even get the Millennia (their top offering.)

They are good folks and know vinyl inside out.

www.sotaturntables.com

Nels

Browntrout · « **Reply #7 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 03:00 pm »

I would still recommend buying second hand in this price range as I did.
A second hand Simon Yorke if you can find one is lovely (what I have) or a second hand SME 30 or SME 20 are both very well respected. A Brinkman would also be a nice table and something else I considered before coming across the one I own now is the Verdier Platine a rather intersting table.
Hope this helps, Ben.

and for the Platine Verdier here is a Youtube video which shows the magnetic bearing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSGNtG-Qge4
and a picture...

I would like to think that the Simon Yorke is the nicest sounding of those.

Laundrew · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Sep 2009, 09:37 pm »

Hello Ben,

Thank you so much for posting these awesome pictures. I never considered going the used route and I can see that I must also look into this. I could spend hours just gazing at one of these TT on my stereo stand!

Be well...

vinylphilemag · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 01:31 am »

Quote from: Laundrew on 13 Sep 2009, 09:37 pm

Hello Ben,

Thank you so much for posting these awesome pictures. I never considered going the used route and I can see that I must also look into this. I could spend hours just gazing at one of these TT on my stereo stand!

Be well...

Unless you know the seller, I'd be very wary of buying a used TT (or cartridge for that matter). You just don't know what damage the bearing might suffer during shipment.

Assuming you're gonna stick to new TTs, a couple that come to mind are the SME Model 10 (though you might want to stretch to the Model 20/2), some of the Clearaudios, the TW Acustic Raven, and the upper models from VPI.

I totally get what you mean about staring at TTs. Even after all this time, I still love the look of my Forsell Air Reference:

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 03:23 am »

Quote from: wilsynet on 13 Sep 2009, 08:02 am

As far as I can tell, TheChairGuy's new favourite turntable is the VPI Classic which retails for $2500. If I were buying a turntable today, I'd probably think very seriously about the VPI Classic as he hasn't steered me wrong yet.

I do think the sonics are slightly better with the new VPI Classic...but, the differential is not so vast and the ease of use so great with the JVC fully auto that the VPI has been in the closet for 60-some days now.

For a newbie, or returnee in Laundrew's case...ease of use may keep him in vinyl for a long time. Given my listening habits (at work, up and down, no serious listening, phones ringing, answering emails, etc) the beauty of the JVC is that it sounds good enough for my needs today.

I wish I had room to set both up

(someday maybe)

John

srb · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 07:23 am »

I could see how if you were really into vinyl and were a rich SOB, you might get addicted to collecting a few of these.

They are beautiful works of art and engineering, and all so different in their approach.

Steve

2gumby2 · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 10:48 am »

I recommend the Technics SL-1200 series of turntables. Easy to set up and very well made. Take a look at what KABUSA has at www.kabusa.com I have a slightly modified SL-1200 from KABUSA and I am extremely happy with it.

jazdoc · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 04:52 pm »

I have been extremely happy with my Galibier turntable. The sound is fabulous and Thom Mackris is a true vinyl guru. For someone starting out, having expert guidance is very important. More than any other source, vinyl requires meticulous set up to get the most out of the medium. Thom is a great guy and an invaluable resource for customers getting started in vinyl.

For example you could buy the Serac table (http://galibierdesign.com/prd_serac.html) with Artisan Arm and Dynavector 17D3 cartridge package for $4600 and still have plenty of funds left for a quality phono stage. As an alternative, the Gavia is higher priced with even better performance (http://galibierdesign.com/prd_gavia.html)

The Serac (and Gavia) will get you very close to the top of the line Stelvio (IMO a world class table) for a fraction of the cost. You would be able to upgrade the platter in the future and you get Thom's expertise as part of the bargain. I can tell you from experience that having funds left over for vinyl purchases is important. Once you hear how good vinyl sounds, you'll be addicted

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Sep 2009, 08:05 pm »

Dear Landrew,

While your budget (or lack of one to be more specific) certainly opens many if not all doors to the vinyl world, the top is a very bad place to start. I really hope you understand that vinyl is not a plug and play medium and if you've gotten that opinion for reading these pages, we've done a dis-service to you.

As someone who has been spinning vinyl for 45 years, I think there is a certain right of passage that needs to be somewhat respected here. I also think you can end up with at hell of a set-up if you pinch the pennies, if you will. If you start looking for tables, cartridges, stands/platforms, interconnects and so on, by the price, you will end up with a mess.

People so far have shown you tables that cost tens of thousands of dollars. Even if I was a multi-millionaire, I wouldn't dream of owning such machines. You have to find synergy between table, cartridge, music likes and even location for the table. There are things that you will need to learn about setting up a table correctly, like setting VTF, VTA, anti-skating, cartridge (stylus) alignment and vibration control.

The VPI Classic sounds more reasonable, with a nice MM cartridge. I'm pretty sure you will enjoy vinyl, but it will be even more satisfying when you haven't busted the bank, and understand the workings of the machine.

Wayner

2gumby2 · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 11:59 am »

From my experience, the phono preamp can make a huge difference. My vinyl awakening happened when I got a Bel Canto phono stage. I never realized vinyl could sound so good. WayneR is right about finding the right combination of components. The Bel Canto and some others have the ability to select resistance and capacitance to match with your cartridge. Also, take a look at what Ray Samuels has to offer. www.raysamuelsaudio.com This guy has some amazing vacuum tube designs. I had one of his Raptor tube headphone amps and the quality of his equipment is really outstanding.

woodsyi · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 01:37 pm »

Welcome to the world of vinyl. I don't agree that you have to start from bottom up. I understand Wayner's point but why toil with limited sound when you know there is glory to be had. If you do your research and due diligence, there is no reason why you couldn't plunge directly into vinyl esoterica. It would be helpful to get someone experienced to help with the initial set up. I find the better stuff to be easier to set up. For example, Teres TT and Graham Phantom II arm combo was a breeze to set up. Having a detachable arm wand with fool-proof cartridge mounting tool (no need for a protractor), on the fly VTA and azimuth control, and movable arm-mount all makes the job very easy.

Origin and Rega arms are much more PITA in comparison especially with fixed arm mounts.

So do your research and get the best analog you can afford. Spare some of your money for a phonostage and pickups. A couple of different flavors will do you good. Ask a friend or "hire" an expert/dealer for the inititial set up. Watch and learn. Then plunge in and enjoy!

P.S. You have to learn how to clean your records too. RCM is very helpful but not necessary.

vinylphilemag · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 02:40 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 15 Sep 2009, 01:37 pm

P.S. You have to learn how to clean your records too. RCM is very helpful but not necessary.

That reminds me: I think another vital piece of equipment vinyl lovers should have (especially newcomers) is Michael Fremer's second DVD, It's a Vinyl World After All. Not only does he show how to store, clean, and handle records correctly, he also shows them being made.

twitch54 · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Sep 2009, 06:01 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 15 Sep 2009, 01:37 pm

I don't agree that you have to start from bottom up. I understand Wayner's point but why toil with limited sound when you know there is glory to be had. If you do your research and due diligence

I actually see and understand both yours and Wayners point and being an 'ole fart like Wayner I do understand the 'acquired right of passage' thing. My guess is, by the OP coming on the forum the way he did, he dose not have anyone close that he can trully trust in all things analog (or he just wanted to gather our thoughts as well, that's good too) so for that reason as Woodsyi says ....... do your research both on line and if at all possible with your eyes and ears !

Laundrew · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Sep 2009, 12:07 am »

Quote from: jrtrent on 13 Sep 2009, 12:45 pm

Quote from: Laundrew on 13 Sep 2009, 04:30 am
. . . in the meantime, I have a lot of reading to do.

I'm afraid I don't shop in the $5000-10,000 range, but it sounds like you found a good candidate in the Gyro SE (it would be interesting to know which arm and cartridge were on it).
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/search.mpl?searchtext=Gyro+se&b=AND&topic=&topics_only=N&author=fretless&date1=&date2=&slowmessage=&sort=date&sortOrder=DESC&forum=vinyl

Hello jrtrent,

I was in touch with the audio dealer with respect to his TT demo.

The table is a Michell Gyro SE MK II with a Michell Technoarm, and an Ortofon Rondo Red MC Cartridge. The phono stage is an Aethetix Rhea tube phono pre with 3 separate inputs,cartridge degaussing and many other features.