[theclipper]

Hi All  ,

I originally posted here several months back for help and guidance to maximizing the sound reproduction in my room.  After many questions and many answers this led me to adding a couple GIK Tri-Traps and 244 panels.  I was greatly impressed by how much my sound improved.  I couldn't believe how much more bass I could here from my listening chair.  Before it was way too overpowering in the corners and underwhelming from seat.  I now want to see if the bass can be improved further and see if I can clean up the soundstage even more.

I have since ordered another pair of Tri-Traps and 244s which are on their way to my house.  So, I come back asking for a little more help in deciding where to place these and if there is anything else I could do to my room to help improve the sound.  I am open to try just about anything.  I can rearrange the room in any way that would help with the sound.  None of this furniture absolutely must stay. 

Here are some pics of how my room currently is arranged:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37136212@N00/sets/72157622186401369/

Please let me know if you would like any other angles or info from me.  I am happy to provide it.

The one weird thing about my room is that I don't really have a wall for the right speaker as it opens into a little nook for my bed.  I just want my room to be arranged in a way that will give me the best sound I can get.  I am thinking of moving that tall bookcase out of my room if it would help improve the sound at all. 

I have been talking to Bryan at GIK and he suggested placing the 2 244s above my listening chair but I don't think they could really be centered there as that light is in the center of the room.  I was thinking of centering that desk on the wall behind the chair and sitting 3 panels on the desk.  While putting the other 244 above my head. 

I wanted to stack the Tri-Traps on top of each other but cannot as my ceiling is not tall enough.  I could definitely put one in the corner next to my desk but wouldn't know where to put the other.

Here is a quick review of the stats of my system and room:

14.5' long, 9.5' wide & 7' tall

There is 42.5'' between the speakers and the front of the speakers are about 4' off the wall behind them.

The chair sits in the center of the speakers about 70'' back.

My gear:

Klipsch Forte II speakers
Rega P5 TT (Ortofon 2M Black cart)
Hagerman Cornet Phono Stage
Eico HF-87 Amp

Thanks so much!! 

-Clipper

[oneinthepipe]

Clipper:

Glad to hear that things are working out.

Regarding the ceiling-mounted light, you can hang the panels below the light with 14 gauge steel wire or similar.  If the bracket on the light hangs too low, you can replace the light with a lower profile light for less than $10.00.

Regarding the panels behind your listening position, I think the panels should be placed a little lower.  You could pull the desk out and either hang them or fabricate some stands.

I wouldn't recommend hanging a panel over your head until you have dealt with ceiling reflections.  Ceiling-placed panels can have significant effects, but you probably want to experiment (with the help of friends to hold the panels while you listen). 

[theclipper]

Hey Oneinthepipe,

Thanks for the response. 

I'm thinking that there is really no way I will be putting a panel over the light.  But I guess I shouldn't nix that possibility completely.  Its just that I would lose a ton of light and the panel would hang down rather low on a ceiling that is already not very tall.

I wanted the panels on the back wall to be lower but I would lose more floor space if I were to pull that desk out from the wall.  Do you think it would make that much a difference it they were lowered a few inches?

So you don't think its a good idea to place a panel centered over my seated position?

Thanks so much!  There is always so much more to learn in this field.

-Clipper

[oneinthepipe]

Clipper:

With the panels against the back wall, unless moving them would be difficult, why not pull the desk out, lower the panels about 8"-12", and listen a little?  I lowered the panels behind my listening position, and there was a significant difference.

Regarding a panel above your head, I think that it will make a difference, but I don't know whether or not the the difference will be an improvement.  Just thinking about your room, however, I think that there are other spots that might make better use of the panel, such as the ceiling between and a little forward of your speakers.  This is a very easy area to experiment.  When I placed panels on the ceiling, my wife and daughter moved them around will I sat and listened.  My wife and daughter's physical presence in the room undoubtedly altered the sound, but the difference in the sound with the panels' various locations was huge.

[theclipper]

I may go ahead and try to lower the panels a bit then as you say.  It sounds like it won't hurt to try.  I'll probably wait to do that until I get my new panels and start moving everything around though.

Any idea on where exactly I should place my Tri-Traps that are on their way?  Think any of the furniture should be re-arranged?

Anyone else out there have any opinions for me?


Again I really do appreciate the help and guidance.

Thanks,
Clipper

[srlaudio]

We have had great luck with our products.... here is a link to a recent install here in Nashville....

http://www.srlaudio.com/dan_penn_studio.pdf

You need more that a bunch of fiberglass to realize your goals!

[theclipper]

Anyone else have any opinion as to where these panels are best placed?  I believe they should be arriving soon.  I'm excited to get them up , just not sure as to where .

Thanks so much,
-Clipper

[Glenn Kuras]

We have had great luck with our products.... here is a link to a recent install here in Nashville....

http://www.srlaudio.com/dan_penn_studio.pdf

You need more that a bunch of fiberglass to realize your goals!

What does that have to do with helping the poster. 

Hey Clipper,
I am going to email Bryan to have him chime in, but you know we can custom size the tri trap? I know you would have to send them back but that is one idea.
Also you can also put the Tri Trap along the floor corners like the following.



Glenn

[bpape]

Along the wall/floor corner is always an option.  We can also custom size those for you if you want to stack them.

What we were trying to accomplish with the 244's overhead was to deal with height related modal issue rather than reflections. 

Bryan

[theclipper]

Hello Everyone,
I appreciate the help from the GIK guys!

I decided against custom sized tri-traps as I will likely be moving out of this house in a year or so.  I know they would be better that way but I just couldn't justify spending on that.

Here are some updated pictures of where my room is currently at right now, i tried to add pertinent info in the captions:

http://picasaweb.google.com/wolford.chris/NewRoomSetup#

As a refresher the measurements of my room are: 15'2''x 9'7'' x 7'3''

If you would like any clarification on the pictures or any other angles please let me know.

I have one of the tri-traps in the back corner, and have the other in a "corner" created by my gear rack and dresser.  Would it make more sense to put this somewhere else?

Also, I didn't want to start drilling into my ceiling if that wasn't the place where I could get the most bang for my buck with the panels.  So I just went ahead and threw one on my desk and have one laying behind my speakers against the wall.  These placements are defintely temporary, I was just hoping for some advice on where I would be best served to put them.

I am thinking that I will likely move that record rack about a foot more towards the back wall.

Any other glaring set-up issues I should change?

Thanks so much everyone!

-Clipper

[oneinthepipe]

Clipper:

That looks very good.  In that photo, I don't think lowering the panels on the back wall would necessarily make any difference.  I couldn't tell from the other photo that the panels were standing on the desk, and I think that desk will reflect more sound than the panels could absorb if they were lower.  I don't know about the LP rack.  The current placement doesn't look to close to the speaker, and if the rack is further back in the room, I don't know what effect there might be on side wall reflections.  Maybe another drawing would be easier to visualize.  Regardless, that looks much better. 

[srlaudio]

What does that have to do with helping the poster.   

Maybe just to shake up the thinking around here.  I have found NO room that doesn't improve with the application of diffuser panels, usually of dimensions similar to your absorbers, or larger.....

[Glenn Kuras]

I have one of the tri-traps in the back corner, and have the other in a "corner" created by my gear rack and dresser.  Would it make more sense to put this somewhere else?

I would put it along the floor corner as that really is not a "corner" you have it at now.

Glenn

[Glenn Kuras]

What does that have to do with helping the poster.   

Maybe just to shake up the thinking around here.  I have found NO room that doesn't improve with the application of diffuser panels, usually of dimensions similar to your absorbers, or larger.....

I LOVE DIFFUSION, but it is not a low end control.   

Glenn

[theclipper]

I have one of the tri-traps in the back corner, and have the other in a "corner" created by my gear rack and dresser.  Would it make more sense to put this somewhere else?

I would put it along the floor corner as that really is not a "corner" you have it at now.

Glenn

Hey Glen,

Which floor corner do you mean?  Also, do I need to worry about these tri-traps being symmetrical?

Any idea where the 244s might do the most good?


Thanks so much Glen,

-Clipper

[theclipper]

Along the wall/floor corner is always an option.  We can also custom size those for you if you want to stack them.

What we were trying to accomplish with the 244's overhead was to deal with height related modal issue rather than reflections. 

Bryan

I'm not sure I understand what a modal issue is as opossed to reflections?  Can anyone help to break this down for me?  Also, what does addressing said issue do for the sound?

Thanks!

[bpape]

Well, modal issues are somewhat caused by specific reflections.

A modal issue is one that's caused by a dimension of a room and how the waves interact in it.  At some places in the room, waves cancel at specific frequencies and you'll get a dip in response.   At other places and/or frequencies, you'll get waves combining constructively and causing a peak in response.

In either case, if you damp or otherwise prevent one of the 2 waves from interacting that way, you minimize the modal problem.

People often make the mistake of trying to EQ.  If it's a peak, you CAN do that but not highly recommended as there are also phase issues and the EQ center and Q has to be perfect to function properly.  If it's a null, you really can't as you're just making both waves that are canceling each other stronger - still resulting in the same dip or null.

I think Glenn is referring to laying it on it's side to deal with the wall/floor corner.

Bryan

[srlaudio]

Obble Gobble.... I think that the rear wall should look more like Dan Penn's studio, or wolfsyi's.....  the absorbers could then be placed like a soffit between the ceiling and the wall, in both directions to take out the trihedral corner.  That is my 2 cents....