Vsonics build

AKSA · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 Oct 2009, 12:03 am »

Quote

Are you in aural bliss yet? Inquiring minds yadda yadda........

Hi Ron,

Any progress?

Hugh

RonR · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Oct 2009, 11:39 am »

Hi Hugh,

I still have some cosmetics to complete but as of yesterday, the Vsonics are playing music!

First impressions are of tonal and spacial accuracy throughout the frequency range. There's real punch when called for in the bass, but it's tuneful as well. The sound stage is definitely a plus-point.

More later, I have some cabinet finishing to do.....

Cheers,

Ron.

AKSA · « **Reply #22 on:** 18 Oct 2009, 03:25 am »

Ron,

This is great news!! Do please put up a few more photos, and let us know your thoughts - congratulations on finishing them, it's a decent project, and you've achieved the goal!

Cheers,

Hugh

ginger · « **Reply #23 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 03:05 am »

Lotus Elan - Off topic.
Way back when Adelaide hosted the F1 Grand Prix a friends wife was one of the hostesses responsible for getting teams to functions etc. She actually drove Colin Chapman (chairman of Lotus) between functions in her hubbies Elan. Colin expressed amazement that everything electrical in the Elan worked reliably (something which is uncommon in Elans). She had to confess that hubby had crashed the Elan into a cliff sometime before and burned out the electrical loom. Subsequently her hubbies friend, Ginger, had rewired the entire electrical system from scratch, pretty much ignoring the original wiring methods and circuits. I used a loom and fold down fuse box from a Mitsubishi Gallant (original Lotus had 2 fuses for the entire vehicle) and took the opportunity to fit a Lucas breakerless ignition system at the same time so we were'nt forever burning our arms as we reached down between the extractors to access the distributor to set the timing. Why was the new wiring system so much more reliable? The Lotus is a fibreglass body with a tiny subchassis. I simply ran power plus earth return to everything instead of trying to rely on returns via that sub chassis. All earth returns to a common earth bolt back in the engine bay. In audio amp terms that means I "Star Earth" wired it.
Cheers,
Ian (Ginger)

AKSA · « **Reply #24 on:** 27 Oct 2009, 07:00 am »

Ginger,

What a great story!! I can't remember how many times I fitted electronic ignitions to points distributors, they work so much better, and have transformed car maintenance.

I loved the Elan, hated the electrical system!! But all Pommy cars were like that, Joe Lucas, Prince of Darkness.....

Ron,

Hows the VSonics? Pleased with them?

Cheers,

Hugh

Tliner · « **Reply #25 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 10:50 am »

Oi, Ron We recon that you must be transfixed with the music machine. C'mon take a break and let us know how you are finding the VSonics.

Cheers,

laurie

AKSA · « **Reply #26 on:** 28 Oct 2009, 08:52 pm »

Transfiguration of the Night, Ron?

Hugh

RonR · « **Reply #27 on:** 30 Oct 2009, 04:50 pm »

Gentlemen,

Sorry for not responding earlier, but I've been snowed under with that 4-letter word "work", spending many evenings and weekends there lately. Playtime was suspended while project deadlines loomed!

The Vsonics are sounding great at the moment, though I may have overdamped the lower chamber by completely lining it in 1mm felt. The bass is certainly there, but it's not as visceral as before. When I'm sure the drivers are mechanically run in, I'll remove the felt piece by piece until it's right.

Things haven't been helped by an "upgrade" I performed a few weeks ago, replacing Opamps in my DAC with the latest and greatest. The first one I did made a good improvement, but the second resulted in sibilance. Needless to say, I couldn't re-install the old one again, as the leads were snipped to get it out. I'm just waiting for a new (old) one to arrive, then normal service can be resumed.

Ginger, that Elan must have been one-of-a-kind, I don't think I've ever seen one where everything works, even newly restored they have their quirks. It's good to know "The Old Man" as Colin was known actually saw one Elan where the electrics worked properly!
Lotus did a fantastic job on suspension, brakes, steering, roadholding, etc, but electrics were the weak point, as with many Fibreglass cars. The earthing is definitely the key. In addition to using the Chassis as earth, connecting at points that were prone to rust, Lotus used loads of "Bullet" connectors in the earth leads which weren't sealed against the elements, with the resulting "Bad Earth" problems becoming all too familiar in the soggy climate here.
I intend to do something like you did, by using a 15-fuse box and proper sealed earth connections throughout the loom. Given your experience, I think I'll also run a length of thick cable from engine bay to the rear electrics rather than relying on the Chassis earthing.

Cheers,

Ron.

gaetan8888 · « **Reply #28 on:** 31 Oct 2009, 12:36 am »

Quote from: RonR on 30 Oct 2009, 04:50 pm

Gentlemen,

Things haven't been helped by an "upgrade" I performed a few weeks ago, replacing Opamps in my DAC with the latest and greatest. The first one I did made a good improvement, but the second resulted in sibilance. Needless to say, I couldn't re-install the old one again, as the leads were snipped to get it out. I'm just waiting for a new (old) one to arrive, then normal service can be resumed.

Cheers,

Ron.

Hello Ron

Which Opamps did you used in the first and the second upgrade ?

Thank

Bye

Gaetan

RonR · « **Reply #29 on:** 2 Nov 2009, 01:50 pm »

Hi Gaetan,

Slightly off-topic but....

I have a Musical Fidelity DAC which had MC33079P Quad Opamp as the IV, and NE5532AN converting the Balanced IV outputs to single-ended.
I replaced the NE5532 with a metal-cased LME49720HA to great effect.
Replacing the MC33079 with 2 x LME49720HA was a step too far.

The LME49720 bandwidth is 55Mhz, with Slew rate of 20V/uS,
the MC33079 bandwidth is 16Mhz, with slew rate of 7V/uS.
Either the IV stage is letting through loads of cr*p from the DAC chip, or it's oscillating.

Cheers,

Ron.

Johnny · « **Reply #30 on:** 7 Nov 2009, 03:50 pm »

Quote from: RonR on 30 Oct 2009, 04:50 pm

The Vsonics are sounding great at the moment, though I may have overdamped the lower chamber by completely lining it in 1mm felt. The bass is certainly there, but it's not as visceral as before. When I'm sure the drivers are mechanically run in, I'll remove the felt piece by piece until it's right.

Congratulations Ron

Hope you have your gear sorted out and the Vsonics nicely tuned and broken in.

At last word, no carpeting is suggested in the lower vent chamber, but a thicker bottom panel may be beneficial. This can be easily accomplished with the addition of a plinth. I plan to make this slightly oversized in order to improve stability and lend a more traditional and pleasing silhouette (to my eye).

I'm curious about how you deployed the batting. I assume the woofer sheet just arcs around the back of the chamber behind the woofer, as it appears to do in your photos. Did you use all the remaining material behind the tweeters, just wadded up loosely throughout the space or something?

One last question, if you don't mind. Did you use a gasket or sealant on the tweeter flange? I'm not convinced that the metal to wood contact will be lossless. On the other hand the system, as designed, may have been voiced with losses at this location...

I'm very close now, and have the weekend more or less off to work on my Vsonics

Cheers!
John

Tliner · « **Reply #31 on:** 8 Nov 2009, 12:27 am »

Hi All,

Ron, I think that you have found that by "carpeting" the lower vent the bass has been recuced to some extent. It will be interesting to know your impressions when you begin to remove the "carpet"

John, Crapeting is not suggested in the lower vent chamber as A/B listening tests indicate that the bass is down slightly but drier. Certainly none of the slam and impact is lost, the carpet just makes the bass sound different. If you want to play with the carpeting in this position don't glue the carpet in place before you make permanent decision to glue it in. You may even like to put carpet in place when playing various CDs and vice versa. Hugh's VSonics has no carpet and mine does. But the listening rooms are different and I can't be bothered to take the carpet out.

By all means go for a larger plynth, what ever turns you on. But I suggest that you should not make a plynth any thicker than about 25mm (1") thick as the tweeter should be about the height of the listeners ear in an average listening position. Some VSonic builders have even contemplated using basalt, marble etc for the plynth.

The batting (stuffing) should be loosely folded lengthwise and placed below the woofer about half way down the chamber. Do NOT place it directly behind the woofer as stuffing in such a placement tends to muddy the sound the slight restricting of the movement of the drivers cone. Placement of the tweeter stuffing should be above the tweeter and not behind it either.

By all means use some sealant behind the tweeter. The VSonics have not been voiced allowing for any air losses at all.

Have fun,

Cheers,

Laurie.

RonR · « **Reply #32 on:** 8 Nov 2009, 02:55 pm »

Johnny,

It's nice to hear that another pair of V-sonics are nearing completion. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at what they can do (how's that for understatement!). I used a small bead of blu-tak around the tweeter flange, as I've not finished playing with the drivers yet. It seems to work well, but I will eventually use "Plumber's Mait", which seals but never hardens. I made up some 3/4 inch plinths around an inch wider than the cabinets, which will be going on when the lower chamber is sorted out. As for the stuffing, the lower piece was arranged into a tube just below the bass driver, and the upper piece behind the tweeter, but I'll be changing that having seen Laurie's last message.

Laurie,
My V-sonics still have the 1mm thick felt in the lower chamber, but it won't be there for long.... I'll be removing it this afternoon! I'll also make some adjustments to the stuffing, bringing it in line with your recommendations above.

Cheers,

Ron

Johnny · « **Reply #33 on:** 8 Nov 2009, 09:41 pm »

Laurie and Ron,
Thanks for your replies.
I'm very pleased to have some of these details sorted out.
Cheers,
John

AKSA · « **Reply #34 on:** 9 Nov 2009, 12:04 am »

Hi John,

Back from the Maine event?

I hope you fire up your VSonics very soon...... your build is very well done, and you should get quite a surprise!

Hugh, in blistering 35C today!

RonR · « **Reply #35 on:** 9 Nov 2009, 11:37 am »

Hugh, Laurie and all,
Here are the results of yesterday's tweaking:

1. Move stuffing to Laurie's suggested locations:
Difficult to put your finger on, but it sounds like there's better integration between the drivers.

2. Removal of 80% of the felt lining in the lower chamber:
4 of the 5 pieces of felt were removed, leaving the top piece in place so as not to disturb the crossover.
The bass is back

- and better than before, as the drivers are now well run in.

3. Removal of sealing on the tweeter:
Suffice it to say that I put the blu-tac back PDQ!

Thanks Hugh and Laurie for your patient help and guidance, I think I'm now listening to these speakers as they were intended to sound. aa

AKSA · « **Reply #36 on:** 10 Nov 2009, 03:47 am »

Ron,

It's been a pleasure, I hope you did not find it frustrating.....

I will incorporate all the points you make in the latest instructions.

Would you like to pen a small review, give us your considered thoughts compared to other speakers you have owned?

Cheers,

Hugh

RonR · « **Reply #37 on:** 11 Nov 2009, 11:03 am »

Hugh,

The only frustrating part was not having enough time to dedicate to speaker building!
I learned a lot and with Aspen's help built some truly excellent loudspeakers.

Review to follow when I've had a chance to play some CDs and LPs.....

Cheers,

Ron.

Johnny · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 02:10 pm »

Guys,
I assume the tweeter terminal painted white is the hot one?
Spec sheets don't seem to indicate

Since I'm asking, you KNOW what stage I'm at

Best,
John

AKSA · « **Reply #39 on:** 22 Nov 2009, 09:09 pm »

Hi John,

Yes, if the other terminal is BLACK or unmarked, as I think it might be.

No, if the other terminal is RED, but I don't think you have that series!

Nearly there!!

Cheers,

Hugh