Solid State Amplifier...Tube Preamplifier...your experience.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #20 on:** 15 Aug 2009, 12:55 pm »

Quote from: Pez on 14 Aug 2009, 10:02 pm

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 14 Aug 2009, 09:53 pm
The only way to go if you're going SS at all...IMHO.

Just curious, why?

I AM a Tube-o-Phile! So I consider tubes somewhere in the system essential. When it comes to preamps, I've heard very few SS pres not add a slight (sometimes not so slight) metallic haze to the sound and I have heard not a single one have the depth and 3D quality of a great tube pre. So for me, if you're going to go SS at all go with an SS amp but always use a tubed pre. Again, just my humble opinion.

zybar · « **Reply #21 on:** 15 Aug 2009, 01:23 pm »

Eric,

Did you hear that haze at my place? I don't, but maybe I am used to it.

When you were over, I was using a ss preamp (Plinius M8).

George

bpape · « **Reply #22 on:** 15 Aug 2009, 01:54 pm »

Over the years, I've been all over the map - all tube, all ss, ss amp with tube pre, tube amp with ss pre. I always keep coming back to the same thing - SS amp with tube pre. It's the only combination that for my taste, gives me solid, tight, extended bottom end, plenty of speed, good control of speakers with odd loads, ability to drive innefficient speakers, great imaging, and a sweet midrange. Plus, it gives me the ability to tweak to my taste a little by rolling tubes without it costing a fortune buying matched quads or octets.

My second choice is all tube if done properly.

YMMV

Bryan

Pez · « **Reply #23 on:** 15 Aug 2009, 02:11 pm »

Quote from: Ericus Rex on 15 Aug 2009, 12:55 pm

I AM a Tube-o-Phile! So I consider tubes somewhere in the system essential. When it comes to preamps, I've heard very few SS pres not add a slight (sometimes not so slight) metallic haze to the sound and I have heard not a single one have the depth and 3D quality of a great tube pre. So for me, if you're going to go SS at all go with an SS amp but always use a tubed pre. Again, just my humble opinion.

agh makes sense. I miss understood your post

doug s. · « **Reply #24 on:** 15 Aug 2009, 05:42 pm »

solid state for subwoofer amp, (or for bi-amp set-up, if x-over is ~300hz or lower), tubes everywhere else. re: x-overs, while i prefer active, passive is ok if between amps and preamp, not between amp and speakers...

ymmv,

doug s.

K Shep · « **Reply #25 on:** 16 Aug 2009, 12:42 am »

I had an interesting experience at an audio shop in my area. The salesman was gracious and wanted to share the three systems he set up. One an integrated amp CD player Usher BE-718 then switched to Esoteric MG-10 system, a great starting point. We listened to a female vocal/acoustic/jazz CD he had on hand, it was a great demo. I became acquainted with the music as quickly as I could. We then moved to a McIntosh system all tube feeding Usher BE-20 just amazing I could hear the rounded edges, the liquid sound of the tubes was apparent to me. He then played the CD in an all Chord system Blue CD player, DAC, Pre and Chord amp partnered with B&W 802's. Wow, I was blown away by the soundstage not paying attention to the SS/tube difference. The interesting thing is he recommended we listen back through. In other words from the Chord gear back to the integrated system. That process made a difference in that I had a point of reference not going forward but traveling back through. The exercise was my first comparing tubes and SS side by side. So at the point he said "let's listen back through" I paid more attention to the systems and not the music. I became a more analytical listener. The experience taught me what I heard from tubes and SS and what to listen for in the future. Hopefully this will keep the juices flowing here.

Kirk

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #26 on:** 16 Aug 2009, 12:18 pm »

Quote from: zybar on 15 Aug 2009, 01:23 pm

Eric,

Did you hear that haze at my place? I don't, but maybe I am used to it.

When you were over, I was using a ss preamp (Plinius M8).

George

No, George, your Plinius did not have that haze.

K Shep · « **Reply #27 on:** 18 Aug 2009, 08:26 pm »

Are there any members who have gone from a Solid State preamp to a Tube preamp that can share their experience? My tube preamp quieted the sharp edges from my digital front end.

Kirk

Pez · « **Reply #28 on:** 18 Aug 2009, 10:05 pm »

It's not "quieting the edge" so to speak that edge is something solid state adds, it is prevalent in the sonic signature of many pieces of solid state equipment.

In my experience a lot of what people attribute to as "detail" in solid state is really an edginess that is a specific coloration that SS suffers from. Every piece of equipment ever made COLORS the sound accentuating certain tonal aspects, shifting phase/time coherence, adding distortion, noise etc etc. No type of device is exempt.

Now as for subjective comparison, yes I have owned and auditioned many different amps and preamps over the years and I prefer the tonal characteristics, transients, and over all presentation of tubes over the tonal and otherwise coloration introduced by Solid State. There is just no comparison.

A lot of cliches have arisen about Tubes that just aren't true... Well maybe sometimes they are, but if you have decent equipment they are not. Such as tubes can't do transients, tubes have a rolled off treble response. Not true in my experience.

Tyson · « **Reply #29 on:** 19 Aug 2009, 01:05 am »

Tubes rule

I just wish there were more fully remote controlled tube preamps. My Mapletree 2a SE is great, but I'd love to be able to switch inputs or volume from my listening chair.

Preamps, in my opinion, have the least improvement on the system by switching from SS to tubes. The most important is the source, followed by the amps, and then the preamp is last. And if you can biamp (or triamp) and still use a SS amp on the bass, it's pretty close to an optimal solution.

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #30 on:** 19 Aug 2009, 01:12 am »

I've always left tubes for small signal duties. There are plenty of tube amps that are great too but matching them up with speakers can be more difficult, especially with Single Ended Triodes.

All of audio is mixing and matching to get the results you want. No matter what you use your going to need to experiment and try different things to find exactly what fits your taste. If you don't want to be on a never-ending treadmill trying different equipment figure out your speakers and room first. That will dictate what you need to drive them. From there on out you can dial-in different gear upstream to fit your personal preference.

toobluvr · « **Reply #31 on:** 19 Aug 2009, 04:52 pm »

If you are gonna mix them up, conventional wisdom says tubed pre and SS for amp.

Me? I use tubes wherever possible. If I could put them in my turntable, I would!

Pez · « **Reply #32 on:** 19 Aug 2009, 06:24 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr on 19 Aug 2009, 04:52 pm

If you are gonna mix them up, conventional wisdom says tubed pre and SS for amp.

No offense intended, but F@#% conventional wisdom,

I'm with you tubes all the way. (except for your bass/sub amp then go solid state.

)

JP78 · « **Reply #33 on:** 19 Aug 2009, 09:34 pm »

hey kirk - my bel canto integrated has a solid state pre section and set amplification section...while this sounds backwards....the result is pure bliss

. there are several other combination integrated amps out there if you're not ready to spend the big bucks on separates.

i also had a lot of luck with a dehavilland tube pre and spectron ss (digital) amplifier.

oh, and if you're happy with your current pre/amp/speaker synergy...youo can always go with a tubed dac.

Tyson · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 Aug 2009, 09:51 pm »

I have an SS/Digital amp pressed into service in my system at the moment (my tube amp is kaput). Ouch, the highs are fairly painful.

K Shep · « **Reply #35 on:** 20 Aug 2009, 12:02 am »

Quote from: Tyson on 19 Aug 2009, 01:05 am

Tubes rule
Preamps, in my opinion, have the least improvement on the system by switching from SS to tubes. The most important is the source, followed by the amps, and then the preamp is last. And if you can biamp (or triamp) and still use a SS amp on the bass, it's pretty close to an optimal solution.

Tyson,
Do you also feel that a preamp is third in order of importance in a system? Or is it forth after speakers also? I read your post to say least improvement regarding SS to tubes.

The reason I ask is it is my humble opinion that a preamp is the 2nd most important piece of equipment in a system. Speakers first.

Kirk

Tyson · « **Reply #36 on:** 21 Aug 2009, 10:10 pm »

Yes, speakers are the most important piece of equipment in the system. Then comes room treatments. Then comes the source, then the amps, then the preamp, then power conditioning,then wire, interconnects, power cords, isolation footers, etc....

Pez · « **Reply #37 on:** 21 Aug 2009, 10:23 pm »

huh, you put room treatment ahead of source? Are you high? I don't want to down play the importance of RT, but if you have a bad source no amount of foam padding is going to change that.

Not to mention us hen pecked gentlemen (yourself included) do not get the luxury of room treatment so we're pretty screwed to begin with, your order makes it even worse!

The again I suppose a lot of that has to do with how bad your room is. If it's really echoey then it could potentially be the number one most important.

K Shep · « **Reply #38 on:** 21 Aug 2009, 10:36 pm »

That's why I enjoy this forum over others, most everyone is respectful. I agree to disagree. Speakers, treatments, preamp, front end, amp, cabling...

I share your love for tubes and will probably always have them incorporated in my system somewhere.

Here is a snap shot of my room and my treatments.

Pez · « **Reply #39 on:** 21 Aug 2009, 10:41 pm »

Wow that looks like a very well treated setup you've got there. That ceiling it seems like it presents it's own problems when it comes to placement etc.