[osmo]

As the title suggests, I think I have decided on the Isabellina HPA as my source/headphone amp/preamp. Since I also want to drive a 2 speaker setup, would the Sig 30.2 power amp or Sig 30.2 integrated amp be the best choice. All comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

[Mariusz]

As the title suggests, I think I have decided on the Isabellina HPA as my source/headphone amp/preamp. Since I also want to drive a 2 speaker setup, would the Sig 30.2 power amp or Sig 30.2 integrated amp be the best choice. All comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

30.2 integrated with HPA will give you somewhat more flexibility in the future if you decide to change things around. Just ask Vinnie if he can optimize 30.2 integrated for HPA.

I have two HPA on order from Vinnie - one will be used as a preamp (digital) and other for 2nd system.

I also like the cap choice in HPA - V-caps. Which from what I've heard sound a bit more open and with extra resolution, giving a more live like presentation.

Just my 2 cents.

Mariusz

[Vinnie R.]

Hi osmo,

Welcome to Audiocircle and the RWA forum!

I think I have decided on the Isabellina HPA as my source/headphone amp/preamp. Since I also want to drive a 2 speaker setup, would the Sig 30.2 power amp or Sig 30.2 integrated amp be the best choice.

You can order the Isabellina HPA with variable (volume-controlled) RCA outputs, and this can feed directly into a Signature 30.2 power amp - saving you money vs. buying the Sig 30.2 Integrated.

If you went with the Signature 30.2 Integrated, then I would order the Isabellina HPA with fixed-level RCA outputs (no volume control for the RCA outputs), as you would use the Sig 30.2 integrated to control the volume for your home audio speakers.

As Mariusz mentions, going with the 30.2 integrated will offer you more flexibility if you decide you want to change things around (moving one piece to one system, and the other piece to another system).  But if you believe you'll be running them together in one system, I would go with the Isabellina HPA (variable outputs) into a Signature 30.2 power amp  and save $400 (which comes very close to buying a 1.5ft pair of RWA interconnects, btw  ).   And we can always convert your Signature 30.2 power amp to the Signature 30.2 Integrated at any time...

As always, do not hesitate to call or email me if you have questions about this.

I also like the cap choice in HPA - V-caps. Which from what I've heard sound a bit more open and with extra resolution, giving a more live like presentation.

Hi Mariusz,

Yes, we use Vcaps for the Isabellina HPA - but this is only in the signal path for the headphone output stage (not the RCA outputs). 

I should have all the parts in stock in about a week to begin building the next production run of the Isabellina HPAs  (and 2 have your name on them, Mariusz!).  I'll keep you posted!

All the best,

Vinnie

[Mariusz]

Like I said....... Vinnie will give you the best recommendation.
HPA with variable out and 30.2 amp might be your best choice.
Knowing Vinnie and his excellent customer service it should be easy to convert either unit in the future if needed.

Hi Mariusz,

Yes, we use Vcaps for the Isabellina HPA - but this is only in the signal path for the headphone output stage (not the RCA outputs). 

I should have all the parts in stock in about a week to begin building the next production run of the Isabellina HPAs   (and 2 have your name on them, Mariusz!).  I'll keep you posted!

Vinnie, what is it that you use in the RCA output path?
I thought that V-caps were also used for RCA out....

Thanks again and please keep me posted.

Best
Mariusz

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie, what is it that you use in the RCA output path?
I thought that V-caps were also used for RCA out....

Hi Mariusz,

For the Isabellina HPA with "fixed-level" RCA outputs, the RCA outputs are
connected directly to the Isabellina dac board outputs. 

For the Isabellina HPA with "variable-level" RCA outputs, the output of the Isabellina
dac board first passes through the volume control (which can also be controlled via the
included remote control) and then passes to the RCA outputs.  So its like having the dac feed
into a passive preamp.

The Vcaps are only using in the headphone section...

Best regards,

Vinnie

[Mariusz]

THX for info Vinnie.
Can not wait to try one out.
I am on vacation right now but will try to get some decent pair of cans by the time HPAs are ready. I had good offer on 650s but I am waiting for your recommendations. You've mentioned that 650 is a good choice when we talked........any other suggestions???

Best
Mariusz

[Vinnie R.]

THX for info Vinnie.
Can not wait to try one out.
I am on vacation right now but will try to get some decent pair of cans by the time HPAs are ready. I had good offer on 650s but I am waiting for your recommendations. You've mentioned that 650 is a good choice when we talked........any other suggestions???

Best
Mariusz

These are VERY nice:


Sennheiser HD800

But I'm not sure if you're looking to spend $1400 

I found the HD650s to sound great with the Isabellina HPA, but there are so many choices and the best thing to do (if you can) is come to the NY Region Headfi Meet (or visit the Headfi section at RMAF this year), where you will have the opportunity to listen to MANY headphones and see what you like best before buying.  Bring your HPA - its definitely transportable and the battery can go beyond 20 hours on a full charge, so you don't even need to plug it in 

Best regards,

Vinnie

[Mariusz]

These are VERY nice:


Sennheiser HD800

But I'm not sure if you're looking to spend $1400 

You are right, that is not what I would spend on cans.
Surly Head-fi guys could......I have seen this picture there ones.


I have heard some good things about AT top of the line, Grado, Denon and few others under a grand.
That is what I will be looking at. And probably used.

Thanks
Mariusz

[Alwayswantmore]

These are VERY nice:


Sennheiser HD800

But I'm not sure if you're looking to spend $1400 

You are right, that is not what I would spend on cans.
Surly Head-fi guys could......I have seen this picture there ones.


I have heard some good things about AT top of the line, Grado, Denon and few others under a grand.
That is what I will be looking at. And probably used.

Thanks
Mariusz

I have heard both HD 650s and AKG 701s/702s with Amphora being driven by my Isabella with built in DAC. These are both well respected for the money, and you can spend more to get worse sound IMO.

Cans vary tremendiously in their sound signature, so choices are very personal. For example, even Grado 1000s are not for me, yet I could be very happy with 701s. HD 650s fall between the two.

Ideally you can get to a meet with your unit and hear a handful of favorites in your price range.

If you really have to order without hearing, a quick call to Vinnie might be your best bet. He's heard enough to sort through the sound you can expect from various cans. Knowing what you like, he could at least steer you in a good direction.

One thing to consider, many comments you read on headfi are from users who have never heard audio or a DAC at the quality level you are about to purchase. Vinnie has heard some very fine speakers, so he has a perspective many headfiers don't. This perspective (his gear and great speakers) gives him a good reference as to what is posible in audio. This perspective is helpful when listening to cans, because you have a standard to measure by. Kent

[KingStyles]

I think the d7000 make a really nice pairing. The hd800 arent too bad either.

[Mariusz]

I own Stax Lambda pro with dedicated SS amp, Grado 60 and some mid-line Sony Studio line. I did own Sennheiser 600 ones.

So in general - Stax are my reference and 600 weren't to bad.
Anything in between will be fine with me.

(P.S.   -    I have heard Vinnie's cans at his shop)

Also - I will be able to use Stax with Isabellina's variable (volume controlled) out.
I do not know the difference between 600 and new HD 650 but if they are close - I'll look elsewhere.


Mariusz

[Alwayswantmore]

I do not know the difference between 600 and new HD 650 but if they are close - I'll look elsewhere.

I've heard both at meets. Some people prefer 600 to 650, too. 650s have a pretty heavy bass. Not as heavy as some I've heard, but still heavier than I'm used to with my speakers.

I had a few days living with AKG 702s with ALO cable and a little time with AKG 701s w/ stock cable. IMO both were amazing for the money. At the meet where I had the Amphora (essentially the headphone amp in the HPA), a number of people listened to 702s and 701s on my RWA gear. The universal comment was that no one had ever heard AKGs sound this good before.
.

[Mariusz]

I do not know the difference between 600 and new HD 650 but if they are close - I'll look elsewhere.

I've heard both at meets. Some people prefer 600 to 650, too. 650s have a pretty heavy bass. Not as heavy as some I've heard, but still heavier than I'm used to with my speakers.

I had a few days living with AKG 702s with ALO cable and a little time with AKG 701s w/ stock cable. IMO both were amazing for the money. At the meet where I had the Amphora (essentially the headphone amp in the HPA), a number of people listened to 702s and 701s on my RWA gear. The universal comment was that no one had ever heard AKGs sound this good before.
.

THX Alwayswantmore

So, IYO 700 series is better with RWA then Sennhs 600 series ???
If so, is there marginal difference between 702 and 701 or ....... ?

Thanks for your comments

Mariusz

[Alwayswantmore]

Oh gosh...

I've only been to three headfi meets. And I've only owned two sets of cans (hd 650s and K1000 with moon silver dragon hardwire), so I'm not the ultimate in knowledge on this topic.

All I know is when I go to the meets (the last two with RWA gear), people are very impressed with my system. Much of this IMO has to do with the quality of my source. Initially I had a Wadia 830 with factory second power supply added -- now it's an Isabella w/ DAC / headphone stage & a Signature 30.2 straight amp (driving borrowed K1000s). Many headfiers have never heard a source the quality of in Isabellina DAC.

That said, Vinnie and I have had this discussion via phone, and he has more time listening to hd650s and K701s on his latest gear than I. So his opinion is worth more than mine.

For the last 7 months all my play money has been spent purchasing new drum equipment ($3,000+ and counting), so I haven't replaced my K1000s.

That said, based on what I heard on my Isabella, the Amphora, etc., and having lived with Ken's 702s for a couple days and hearing 701s at the last meet I attended, I would go for 701s. Bear in mind I can handle a fairly tight sound, where the hd650s often to my ear are overly warm. Many people love their grados, yet I spent a couple days with GS1000s, and I would take 701s driven from the RWA dac/headphone amp in my Isabella no questions asked.

So I like 701s. You listen, you might perfer 600s or 650s.

From my perspective, many headphones have too much mid-bass. Just like most TVs from the factory have grass that's greener than real grass. What catches the eye/ear on first listen is not always the most accurate or easiest to live with for a long period of time.

Last I looked street prices on 701 were just over $200. If I hadn't been saving and spending all my play money purchasing new drum stuff, I would probably own 701s. Not that they are the ultimate. But to my ear -- based on my limited experience -- they sound great, and the price can't be beat.

If you want an warmer sound, with more bass, than 650s may be the better choice.

Sorry if this is not more definitive, but IMO you need to hear them for yourself, even if that means purchasing with the right to return if you're not 100% satisfied.

Kent

Here's a picture of why I currently can't afford headphones... aa

[Alwayswantmore]

I think the d7000 make a really nice pairing. The hd800 arent too bad either.

701s vs 702s, I missed this question...

I had the pleasure to be able to listen to 702 with ALO cable for a couple days prior to the last meet. They were so good I actually thought they might stand up to K1000s driven from my Sig 30.2. But at the meet I borrowed K1000s with moon black dragon hardwire, and yes the K1000s were better.

Several people brought their 701s to my table. They and others who heard them being driven either from the Amphora or the headamp in my Isabella, all said they had never hear 702/1s sound that good. More than one person said they did not like 70Xs until they heard them on RWA gear.

My comparing the two phones was short and under meet conditions. And I now have a dedicated listening room with good speakers, a sub, & gobs of bass traps, etc., so my next headphones will be a secondary system for when I listen at night, etc.

All I wanted to do was prove to myself that 701s sounded good, I never attempted to figure out how much better / worse compared to 702 with upgraded cable (...again, I'm thinking modest budget for phones). Several other people brought 650s by and I had a set of ALO cabled GS1000s at my table. I heard a few others, but none that I can recall their names.

My rank for the day was K1000, 70X, and nothing else really mattered.

BTW: I like buying my stuff from small vendors who I trust. Your question would be an excellent one to run by Ken (ALO) and Vinnie. Sometimes it's easier for vendors to answer these types of question via phone or e-mail rather than an open forum. It also helps the vendors if when you give them a feel for the type of music / sound you like, what you value in terms of sonic characteristics (since there are trade-offs), how much you are willing to invest, etc. In my experience, the opinion of a vendor I trust is often the best advice I find short of hearing it for myself. I've also found that most small vendors embrace the customer interaction.

[Vinnie R.]

Hi Kent,

Thanks for your posts (and nice drum set BTW!  ) and I agree with most of what you said.

I have found that the HD650s are a very "forgiving" set of headphones.  They are not the last work in resolution and transparency, but sound enjoyable even with recordings that are not of the best quality.  Yes - the HD650s are certainly warmer than the K701s/702s, clearly have more bass output (perhaps somewhat at the expense of accuracy), and I find them to have a more fleshed-out midrange.  The HD650s have a very "full" bass and on certain headphone amps, I thought it was a little boomy at times.  With the Isabellina HPA, this is NOT the case - bass was very full, but not overpowering.  They are fun to play loud and less fatiguing over time when playing at louder levels.  The K701s/702s have more top end extension and tighter bass.  If you search on the headfi forums,  you'll find those who say the 701/702s have too much top-end, but with the Isabellina HPA (which is rich in tone and lacking in the "fatigue" factor), they sound as good as I have heard them! 

Both the HD650s and K701/702s are great values and sound very nice with the Isabellina HPA - but they offer a different presentation of the sound.  Regarding the K701 vs. K702, the only difference is that the K702 (which replaced the K701) comes with a detachable cable (so you can play with upgraded cables and quite a few companies like ALO Audio offer this), and the K702s are a different color.  They still use the same drivers, ear cups, headband, etc.

This morning I had an Isabellina HPA customer visit with his Sony R10s, HD800s, and Denon 7000s.  We had a really nice time listening and comparing the sound of these three excellent models on the HPA fed from our Macbooks via USB.  More on that soon... 

Vinnie

[Vinnie R.]

This morning I had an Isabellina HPA customer visit with his Sony R10s, HD800s, and Denon 7000s.  We had a really nice time listening and comparing the sound of these three excellent models on the HPA fed from our Macbooks via USB.  More on that soon... 

How soon is now? 

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f70/todays-mini-meet-red-wine-audio-isabellina-hpa-some-nice-cans-440020/

[Afterimage]

Vinnie, I'm surprised you like the Senn HD800.  I have not heard it, but I read multiple times it can be bright or grainy and I know you do not like that.   Does the Isabellina HPA warm things up a bit?

Regarding the Grado GS1000s, I have heard these sound not so good in some setups.  These things are very finicky, amp dependent.  I owned them as well as the Sony MDR 10.   The Grado has a bigger soundstage, more spacing, and better bass then the R10s.  This was using the headphone out of the Apogee Duet, and the EAR HP4 amp, which is outstanding with Grado's.  But despite that, the R10s were my favorite of the two by far, it's treble, midrange/voices and as tone was so darn good.       

Currently I using the new Grado PS1000.  I sold the R10s as the PS1000 to my ears was the better headphone.  I did direct comparisons using the Singlepower MPX3 slam as an amp for the R10s and of course the EAR HP4 with the Grado's.  So each headphone was paired with an amp that has a reputation as a good match, and in reality they certainly were.  Of course I know there are better setups for the R10s then what I had, but after hearing the PS1000s with the Ear HP4 I was not willing to put any money or effort toward tipping things into the R10s as my preference. It was a risk I was not willing to take.  To top it off, the selling prices for the R10s are pretty high so I was able to really benefit from that too. 

I can't wait to try the Isabellina HPA with the PS1000s and see how it does against the EAR HP4.  Even if it doesn't come out on top, I will still have a USB DAC(Isabellina), which I really need anyway. 

[Vinnie R.]

Vinnie, I'm surprised you like the Senn HD800.  I have not heard it, but I read multiple times it can be bright or grainy and I know you do not like that.   Does the Isabellina HPA warm things up a bit?

With the Isabellina HPA, the HD800s are not bright or grainy - but they are very transparent and detailed.  With a sterile sounding dac and/or headphone amp, I can see this being a problem - but this is not the case with the HPA.

Also, Ken at ALO is working on a new cable for the HD800s:
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5935477-post15.html

I'm looking forward to trying it!

But despite that, the R10s were my favorite of the two by far, it's treble, midrange/voices and as tone was so darn good.       

I know - I love it!

I can't wait to try the Isabellina HPA with the PS1000s and see how it does against the EAR HP4.  Even if it doesn't come out on top, I will still have a USB DAC(Isabellina), which I really need anyway.

We should have all the parts this week (finally!) for the second production run of the Isabellina HPA, so I'll keep you posted on your order.  I am very confident that it will be able to ship before the end of the month 

Best regards,

Vinnie

[Alwayswantmore]

Hi Mariusz,

This may be a little late, but I went to a mini headphone meet this weekend. I had a lot of time with stock 701s and a fair amount of time on HD 650s with Moon Silver Dragon. Unfortunately there wasn't a set of stock 650s.

I did extensive listing on my gear with my source (RWA / Apple laptop).

Both were very good considering their price point. 701s biggest benefit was an overall balanced presentation with no glaring flaws (again remember this was on an Isabella with built in DAC / headamp). So not your typical solid state or modest priced tube amp.

In this case the 650s came out on top. To be fair, the aftermarket cable approx doubles the price, so it was not an apple to apple comparison.

I also tried both sets of phones on two moderate priced tube amps from a well known vendor. These tube amps did not achieve the same level of performance with either can. Of significant note, RWA has much better defined bass and IMO overall a more refined sound.

Both sounded good. Unfortunately if you are going stock cables, my recent audition doesn?t really help much.

Take care, Kent