NXT.......rubbish??....THINK AGAIN!

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phenix332

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: NXT.......rubbish??....THINK AGAIN!
« Reply #3080 on: 12 Apr 2018, 11:48 am »
Hello everyone,
So after I saw the Youtube video by Tech Ingredients on these DMLs a couple of weeks ago I was instantly intrigued. Since then i ordered two Visaton ex60s for first experiments and started to build some XPS panals.
I already experienced some of the properties these panels have. The LF  for example get much stronger when using 30mm thick material compared to 20mm XPS, also overall volume is really  dependent on panal size. All of that is probably nothing new to you but never the less fascinating to experience in person.

Now to my questions: Has anyone of you tried the method described in the video, where weights are placed to dampen some of the resonances? I see Bertagni has implemented something similar... I guess.
What thicknes of endgrain Balsa would be appropriate? In some other forum a person chose 3mm and said that thicker panals would make it sound slow/mushi? but in the video ist seems to be about 1/2". This material should also be interesting for a cfk laminate I can imagine (good dampening of the cfk resonaces) ? Kind of like tectonics panels.
After my order was already placed I read that the Visaton do not produce the best sound quality (still very impressed by the result),so for later builds I would chose a different one. Any suggestions? Is the Dayton Ultra still the one with the best "Hifi" potential or are there others that don't break that often?

I am really looking forward to your replies! In the meantime I will start reading on this paper which seems to be very informative: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/fileDownloadForInstitutionalItem.action?itemId=32717&itemFileId=182509 Do you know it?

Bendingwave

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 237
Re: NXT.......rubbish??....THINK AGAIN!
« Reply #3081 on: 13 Apr 2018, 10:21 am »
Hello everyone,
So after I saw the Youtube video by Tech Ingredients on these DMLs a couple of weeks ago I was instantly intrigued. Since then i ordered two Visaton ex60s for first experiments and started to build some XPS panals.
I already experienced some of the properties these panels have. The LF  for example get much stronger when using 30mm thick material compared to 20mm XPS, also overall volume is really  dependent on panal size. All of that is probably nothing new to you but never the less fascinating to experience in person.

Now to my questions: Has anyone of you tried the method described in the video, where weights are placed to dampen some of the resonances? I see Bertagni has implemented something similar... I guess.
What thicknes of endgrain Balsa would be appropriate? In some other forum a person chose 3mm and said that thicker panals would make it sound slow/mushi? but in the video ist seems to be about 1/2". This material should also be interesting for a cfk laminate I can imagine (good dampening of the cfk resonaces) ? Kind of like tectonics panels.
After my order was already placed I read that the Visaton do not produce the best sound quality (still very impressed by the result),so for later builds I would chose a different one. Any suggestions? Is the Dayton Ultra still the one with the best "Hifi" potential or are there others that don't break that often?

I am really looking forward to your replies! In the meantime I will start reading on this paper which seems to be very informative: https://urresearch.rochester.edu/fileDownloadForInstitutionalItem.action?itemId=32717&itemFileId=182509 Do you know it?

My design is based off of Bertagnis so my method of weight dampening is very similar.

In that Tech ingredients video which panel do you think had the most pronounced bass?

The reason for the Visaton and Dayton flat pack exciter dont have the best sound quality is due to there plastic coil being attached to the square flat plate which in turn is attached to the panel material. Most exciters plastic coil is attached directly on to the panel for best quality sound transfer...The square plates added weight and dampening properties hinder sound quality.

The Ultra and Thruster are good sounding exciters but have reliability issues...The DAEX30HESF, DAEX25SHF and the smaller DAEX25FHE are good sounding exciters that are reliable....Other exciters I would recommend from Tectonic is the Frog exciter TAEX25C10 and the smaller TAEX19C01.



phenix332

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 3
Re: NXT.......rubbish??....THINK AGAIN!
« Reply #3082 on: 15 Apr 2018, 01:05 pm »
Then i will order two of the DAEX30HESF for the about 2'x3' large panals that are 30 mm in thicknes. I also thought about two smaller pannels only 20mm thick, for HF that are driven by the TAEX19C01. Would that be worth a try? How would I manage the different power ratings if I want to turn the volume up?
Sadly these exciters are about 50% more expensive so i would prefer  not to fry them.
I probably also will have to think about building a sub at some point. OB seems to fit well but are there any not so pricey drivers that ar suited?

Bendingwave

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 237
Re: NXT.......rubbish??....THINK AGAIN!
« Reply #3083 on: 17 Apr 2018, 12:48 am »
I just use a electrolytic capacitor for the high frequency exciter.....It would be worth a try if you have the knowledge to do so as the DAEX30HESF is  4ohms, while the TAEX19C01 is 8ohms.

Using the electrolytic capacitor you would need for both exciters to be 8ohms wired in parrallel for 4ohms.

You could start off with the smaller exciters like the TAEX19C01 which is around $6.00 used as the full range driver while the DAEX13CT exciter is used as the high freuquency with the electrolytic capacitor......The down side for using smaller exciters is that they wont play as loud as the bigger more costly exciters.

koko007

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 1
Re: NXT.......rubbish??....THINK AGAIN!
« Reply #3084 on: 19 Apr 2018, 01:58 pm »
@Bendigwave

Could you make cook-book of your "Bertagni like speakers" like Rich did with his spakers:
http://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/dml-flat-pannel/

@Nickolay V
Could you tell me, where i can buy that panels?

Bendingwave

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 237
Re: NXT.......rubbish??....THINK AGAIN!
« Reply #3085 on: 19 Apr 2018, 09:31 pm »
Sorry but I wont give a detail instruction to my design as one day I might want to get it patented.

You could just mimic Bergtagni's design and have really good sounding panels that would be way better then the average beginner type of DML panels....my design is just a step above bertagni's with everything being a bit more cleaner and accurate sounding with better highs, tighter more accurate bass, cleaner midrange. etc.

What separates bertagni's design from all other panels is that with Bertagni's design you will either have to have a CNC machine or know someone with a CNC machine and or you would have to be a master scultpter because Bertagni's design utilizes different thicknesses with many grooves, channels, IM traps as well as dampening weights and other dampening factors...Dr.Jose Bertagni was well ahead of his time in DML/BMR technology, I would even go out on a limb to call him a genius.

I for one had neither.....So it took me 2 years of polystyrene hand sculpting practice to get where I am at today and even at that it is no where near as accurate as a CNC machine.

These exciter technology has a lot of POTENTIAL....If more speaker manufacuterers realize this they would most likely be able to make a design even way better then mine.....There is only one speaker company that I know of that took Bendingwave technology seriously to the extreme which is the Goebel company and there over 100k bending wave speaker....Does the Goebel speakers sound better then my design? Heck yeah they do but they better since there speakers cost over 100k with millions of dollars that backed them up in the research and development department....My design cost me less then $200.00 a pair and around 2k that Ive spent on research and development within the past 3-4 years.

Still till this very day I am trying to make improvements on my panels as I am always learning making adjustments but it goes at a very slow pace as I do not have the extra funds to experiment with at a faster pace.