[coinmaster]

Well you've convinced me. I just had very little to go off of based on my reading.

I'm looking for something with large realistic sound and huge dynamics. I listen to rock, EDM, classical, and often a mix of all 3 in a single music piece (touhou music ). There is a lot of treble in the music I listen to and I think it's fair to say I may be a treble junkie, however I do like a neutral presentation.

Along with the list of questions in my previous post, what do you recommend for me?

[pol_bct]

I think that dynamics is the lowest quality of the DML, they are very detailed, aerated, coherent, credible, but give an automatic compression when the volume is increased, it is linked to the very high stiffness of suspensions and weak excursion  capability.

[coinmaster]

Is there no workaround? What about my suggestion of using many small panels?

[pol_bct]

Is there no workaround? What about my suggestion of using many small panels?

YES but , small panels => no low modes => zero bass   

POL

[coinmaster]

Doesn't an accumulation of small panels still move enough air to create decent bass? I'm sorry I don't know what you mean about low modes "i haven't had any more time yet to do any further research into this specific technology. I can't seem to find what you mean by low mean through google.

[pol_bct]

coin master:
A "classical" piston loudspeaker produce sound by moving a "bloc of air", eventually small,  but with large excursions for lowfreq.
a DML (Distributed Mode Loudspeaker) as the name suggests produce sound by ondulating (waving) a surface of panel,
and a small panel cannot produce lowfrq because it cannot generates  low modes.

POL

[coinmaster]

Okay, what about using different size panels and using a digital crossover? Is there a known frequency range that the issue you discussed starts to kick in? From what I've read it seems these panels do well without a crossover, does that mean I should minimize frequency separation between panels or is it still beneficial beyond the bass region?

[pol_bct]

When using DML, you should change the way you think about sound production, a small panel will not have  enough modes to get a good frequency coverage. If you go BIG, a big panel will have lots of modes, thus a wider frequency range, typically 7 to 8 octaves, starting around 40/45Hz up to 8/14kHz depending of the type of exciter, smaller exciters goes higher but give lower dB, larger exciters produce more level but falls short above 8 kHz.  My way of doing DML  follows the KISS principle (KeepItSimpleStupid), but  multiways are not forbiden, just a little more tricky.

POL

[coinmaster]

From your explanation it sounds like a crossover with different size panels is the way to go then. Thank god digital crossovers are a thing although I do not like the idea of duplicate DACs.
Although I can't afford to take on such a project.
I'm not sure how a speaker with a lack of dynamics is going to perform with the kind of music I listen to though. Do you think the multipanel crossover solution will solve the dynamics issue?

[Bendingwave]

Doesn't an accumulation of small panels still move enough air to create decent bass? I'm sorry I don't know what you mean about low modes "i haven't had any more time yet to do any further research into this specific technology. I can't seem to find what you mean by low mean through google.

Using many smaller panels to create one big panel is more similar to Line Arrays design.....Think of these panels more similar to "OPEN BAFFLE" speakers where moving vast amounts of air in a box to create bass is not really required......its more about vibrating the surface area of the panel and bending it to produce all the frequencies. Larger surface areas mean more bass as a larger panel will bend more then a smaller one.

One way to increase some Dynamics in these panels is to just add a powered subwoofer to handle the bass in the 80-150hz range and below.

Those videos I showed you of the Gobel Bending wave speakers combines bending wave technology with conventional cone drivers.....The rectangle driver in the middle is a bending wave transducer/exciter that produces frequencies from 150hz and up while the conventional cone drivers produce the lower frequencies for a more dynamic impact.....Did those speakers in the video sound like they lacked dynamics? IMO they didnt lack dynamics but I am NOT saying they have the best dynamics either.

[coinmaster]

Ok I give up, it seems the best method would be crossover with different sized panels. I really don't like cone woofers, they convey bass that isn't in the music.
I won't be picky for now.
What is the best way and most reliable way to jump into this on the cheap? Does anyone have a guide built?

[Bendingwave]

Coinmaster, you need to start first before you can give up. LOL.........Here is a good start up introduction into DIY DML speakers.  http://projectgallery.parts-express.com/speaker-projects/dml-flat-pannel/

[Bendingwave]

Yeah I'd like to hear an updated consolidation of how-to information if there is one.
The thing I hate about long threads like this is they are filled with so much information scattered throughout the entire thing.
Has anyone made something like a checklist of consensus?

Off the top of my head I can think of a few questions such as:

Are lower powered modules more detailed, lower distortion?

Can many smaller panels be used to form a giant panel with the same effect? Or perhaps to a better effect? I assume based on the ability to remain small, which is conventionally good for tweeters, while still being able to consolidate into a larger entity for lower frequencies.

Is there a consensus on the best sounding brand/model?

What panel material is best overall?

In 2009 Ziggy stated that taking the exciters out of their shell was the way to go, are we still doing that?

I'm sure I have lots more questions but those are the most pressing ones.

If someone has a guide somewhere that would be great too.

No, lower powered exciters are not more detailed but they do have better high frequency treble.

All Exciters are not the same some have better applications for specific designs or uses but its hard to say which ones is better unless going by a specific purpose or design.

Best panel material is based on personal preference but both Ziggy and I prefer the Ultimate Hard Density EPS...not to be confused with XPS.

Shell? I assume the plastic housing with those so called FEET dayton likes to use for better support, yes REMOVE them as the FEET actually hinder vibration.

[CXW1219]

Hi Coinmaster,

From my (newb) experience, one can make a remarkable sounding pair of speakers with 2 pieces of (A1) foamboard, 2 exciters (I go 'Ultra') and two pieces of double-sided sticky-tape.  Assembly takes minutes.

Admire the unreasonably good sound.

Then, at the risk of going all Morpheus on you: Decide whether to "take the blue pill", where you listen to whatever speakers you want to listen to; or "take the red pill" and end up making complex composite sandwiches out of easily available thin, rigid, light panel material...

It is difficult to make a precise judgement about the £ (or $!) equivalence between DIY DMLs and 'conventional' speakers, because of the inerrant subjectivity any comparison attracts.
I for one find the 'hobby' of tinkering with DMLs as enjoyable as listening to 'em
YMMV.

[Odal3]

When Zigadr was live I used to post in this thread til I realize there was no Gatorfoam in my country.
What panel and exciters you guys are using today?
Thanks

Many have had good experience with glue treated good quality EPS. I like quality birch ply. No need to go too exotic to get good result!

I for one find the 'hobby' of tinkering with DMLs as enjoyable as listening to 'em
YMMV.

+1 

[coinmaster]

Can sufficiently large panels of graphene be bought yet? If so a what price? I'm not known for compromise.

[CXW1219]

 
Paging Dr. Google:
https://graphene-supermarket.com/Wafer-Sampler-Pack.html
 

[coinmaster]

Yeah I was looking at that. It says 4'' diameter wafers, it doesn't seem to imply you can increase the size unless I'm wrong?

[Bendingwave]

There was a article I read a while back about one being able to produce larger size panels of graphene in greater quantities but I do not know about its quality though.

Also graphene is Super EXPENSIVE, I dont have the funds to venture in that direction. 

[coinmaster]

Well I mean, the graphene on that website was $60 per 4'' diameter wafter so that's like $360 for a 2' by 2' although I don't know how big I should buy if I do.