[OB_Newbie]

The slide in insert that shuts a doggy door ...........

So in not out of line to say that the panels you built are for the dogs... truly.   

I prefer XPS still but I can listen to ply panels and would enjoy them.  They look nice too!

[guest42212]

> I prefer XPS

Would you share the specifics, and where you get it ? ....... Bow Wow

[guest42212]

Hey guys, I'm a newbie here, but am intrigued with these sound exciters!  I have been playing around a bit with these and experimented with putting 2 exciters on the back of an acoustic guitar and the result was pretty awesome!  I don't think it's audiophile grade by any means, but sounds a lot better than a lot of normal speakers.  There is a natural sound and when there is acoustic guitar playing you almost think the guitar itself is playing!  Here is a demo on youtube: https://youtu.be/GRJdIv_zvag

Let me know what you think, and what could improve it!
Thanks!

Groovy !!!!!!! ........... That really opens up a lot of other possibilities
for the exciters. (Cringe (Lest I say resonant))

[sweenz27]

Hey Tom, welcome to AudioCircle.
Interesting experiment! Maybe try damping the strings, see if that cleans it up a bit.

Hi Richidoo,
Thanks for the welcome!  I noticed the reverb of the guitar strings once the songs ended, so your idea of damping the strings is a good one, thanks!  What do you think would be a good temporary solution?  Something to clamp them, maybe made out of rubber?

[Odal3]

Like the guitar! - think I saw one like it somewhere else too and there is also ones with pianos that can be bought. Almost a full orchestra now!

Try losening the string so they are not super tight and perhaps dampen them with felt. You can perhaps use it with a capo so it looks nice. I wouldn't play to low bass on it with the fear it would ruin it or losen the glue over time.

You can power the lepai with a battery so there will be no cables shown. That would be a sucess on a party to be able to fake play some pretty advanced guitar solos!!!!  Or even better, remove the case or get one of the small chip amps and hide it inside!

[sweenz27]

Groovy !!!!!!! ........... That really opens up a lot of other possibilities
for the exciters. (Cringe (Lest I say resonant))

Thanks hitsware!  So many possibilities, haha!  There is this Swiss company that uses resonant spruce (tonewood) that is bent to create a DML style speaker.  It's called JMC Soundboard, I think they are pretty pricey.  Here is the YouTube video of their demo (it's sounds a lot like the exciters on the back of my guitar   https://youtu.be/jrSmzjs0bzE

I think this community could come up with something similar!

[sweenz27]

Like the guitar! - think I saw one like it somewhere else too and there is also ones with pianos that can be bought. Almost a full orchestra now!

Try losening the string so they are not super tight and perhaps dampen them with felt. You can perhaps use it with a capo so it looks nice. I wouldn't play to low bass on it with the fear it would ruin it or losen the glue over time.

You can power the lepai with a battery so there will be no cables shown. That would be a sucess on a party to be able to fake play some pretty advanced guitar solos!!!!  Or even better, remove the case or get one of the small chip amps and hide it inside!

Hi Odal3,
Thank you!  Yea, I believe Yamaha makes a Piano with a transducer on their soundboard.  Thanks for the suggestions.  Yea the bass sounds good at certain levels, but with the bass turned up on the Lepai and the volume turned up, it is too much for the exciters and probably like you said, for the guitar.  I was going to try hooking a small passive sub up to handle the bass, but I do not know how to properly crossover the lower frequencies.  The sub has no controls just wire terminals. 

I also have a battery powered Dayton Audio mini t-amp that could help with hiding the wires, but it doesn't seem as powerful as the Lepai. 

I'm wondering how it would sound with the exciters mounted on the inside, might have to experiment with that as well!

Now, I do have to admit, I do not know how to play the guitar for real yet, my wife had bought me this guitar a while ago and I took a few lessons, but never continued to practice.  Right not this is the closest I get to "playing" the guitar 

[osssyvan]

I think I will test some stuff that sign and such makers have.

There seems to be multiple types of Kapa board available. Ther had been mention that kapa is no good but any idea on the material? There is everything from paper to aluminum skins.

Also anyone active listened to dibond?  How they would compare to foam?

This will take some scouting.

-Ossi

[sweenz27]

I think I will test some stuff that sign and such makers have.

There seems to be multiple types of Kapa board available. Ther had been mention that kapa is no good but any idea on the material? There is everything from paper to aluminum skins.

Also anyone active listened to dibond?  How they would compare to foam?

This will take some scouting.

-Ossi

Hi osssyvan,
I went to one of my local digital print stores and introduced them to the world of sound exciters, they thought they were pretty cool!  Anyway, I did have a chance to test a few materials while I was there.  I tried foam board, Gatorboard (black) and a large piece of dibond, it seemed to be aluminum sandwich with a plastic core.  From what I remember, the dibond sounded decent, but I believe the gator and foam board sounded better, I think the dibond was too heavy.  I was using a dayton audio exciter, the one with the three legs, powered with dayton dta-1 battery powered mini t amp.  It may be worth you checking it out for yourself though!  Cheers!

[osssyvan]

Hi Sweenz,

Dibond seems to be Aluminium with PE-core. Kapa tech is on the other hand a version which is aluminium + PUR core. PUR is a world of different materials so hard to tell anything without ever seeing the board.

Three legged is one of those lower power? I am wondering if higher power would be better as with plywood. Dibond seems to be even heavier than 3-4 mm ply though.

Is gatorboard the same as gatorfoam? Gatorfoam seems to be XPS with resin impregnated liners on both sides. That to me sounds quite the same principle than coating XPS/EPS with PVA. There is of course that liner added to the lot.

To me one of the biggest interest in digital print store stuff is the possibility to make it sit well in decorative wise. My GF was already saying with the plywood panels that those things are not staying ! If I can make them with photo or painting I think I can squeeze them in.

I am having hard time combining visit to printing store with my work as they close too darn early.

-OSsi

Hi osssyvan,
I went to one of my local digital print stores and introduced them to the world of sound exciters, they thought they were pretty cool!  Anyway, I did have a chance to test a few materials while I was there.  I tried foam board, Gatorboard (black) and a large piece of dibond, it seemed to be aluminum sandwich with a plastic core.  From what I remember, the dibond sounded decent, but I believe the gator and foam board sounded better, I think the dibond was too heavy.  I was using a dayton audio exciter, the one with the three legs, powered with dayton dta-1 battery powered mini t amp.  It may be worth you checking it out for yourself though!  Cheers!

[sedge]

OB_ newbie
How did you get on with stripping your exciters?
Way back on page 10 their are some pic of what to expect when they have been stripped.

Gatorboard was the panel zygadr used many years ago ,but in the end I believe he felt it was over damped by the two layers of coating,although it performed well.
He then moved on to vh eps ,very large panels again,he was very lucky with his supplier , I would of had to buy in bulk at great expense , I only managed to get a small sample,I wish I could have tried this one in the larger size ,lightness and rigidity ,no damping.
Steve

[sedge]

As I can't get hold of any descent quality eps at the moment ,I'm going to see if I can squeeze a little more out of the ply panel ,I was listening to various types of music the other day including electronic and church organ,I kept trying to turn my TLS down because I felt there was a little too much LF , this went on for a few hours until it dawned on me that the TLS hadn't been turned on .
So am now going to try some of my tricks to see if I can stop the panel boom sound that everyone complains about,hopefully I will also see if I can improve the sound a little more ,the good sound is their but it needs a little bit of a tweak to give it a little bit of life and excitement,to my ears anyway .
If this can be done ,I'm hoping this could be the first serious full range stand alone panel,it is promising but we will have to see
Steve

[Odal3]

Sedge - Excited to see more on the ply panels! Still my favourite! I even had a bass ply panel behind my couch for a while to even out the room modes (only took it away since I needed the exciter for a new experiment)

Ossyvan and Sweenz27-
Re - Gatorboard. In the US, it's easy to get hold of either gatorplast or gatorfoam and I have tried both but only in small sample sizes. I liked the foam version better, and I got better result with this than the XPS. But again, not sure how it will sound full panel. A bit too pricy in large sizes.

The aluminum/brushed cupper looking sign boards are interesting. I tried a small sized sample.  They take a hit on db vs wood, but - they take the frequency way way up - perhaps past my measurement range. In fact, I had to put a Low pass on it around 20Hz since it "tickled" in the ears - couldn't really hear the signal other than it felt somewhat uncomfortable. So very promising as a small tweeter panel.

Time to go exciter shopping again. I need to get a whole bunch of exciters for some panels that is not going to play so loud so I'm wondering which of the lower priced one to get. So far I have pretty much focused on the 40W ones, but need some new ones to experiment with on tiny panels.

How are the Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4? or any other good low cost options?

On a different topic: These smaller bass shakers have caught my attention as a potential for sub panel - TT25-16 PUCK. Anyone tried one?

BTW: The newer one Dayton DAEX32Q ones are on sale, but are they any good? OB - did you get yours to sound good once 'broken-in'?

[guest42212]

Now, I do have to admit, I do not know how to play the guitar for real yet, my wife had bought me this guitar a while ago and I took a few lessons, but never continued to practice.  Right not this is the closest I get to "playing" the guitar 

Hang in there and you too can be a drunken U-Tube star :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pBPnds67o0

With O.B.'s in the backround

[OB_Newbie]

OB_ newbie
How did you get on with stripping your exciters?
Way back on page 10 their are some pic of what to expect when they have been stripped.

Gatorboard was the panel zygadr used many years ago ,but in the end I believe he felt it was over damped by the two layers of coating,although it performed well.
He then moved on to vh eps ,very large panels again,he was very lucky with his supplier , I would of had to buy in bulk at great expense , I only managed to get a small sample,I wish I could have tried this one in the larger size ,lightness and rigidity ,no damping.
Steve

Hey Steve,
We've either been out of state for soccer with the boys or the other side of the state with our daughter the last the few weekends and now again for Thanksgiving       so no time to play.

But I am saving those for a dual panel per side set as they are 8 ohm. 

I am ordering more exciters and want to try more panel material... interest is back in trying new materials.  I still like XPS but I didn't like the low level, but constant, "vibrational" character (for a lack of another term) that I heard when switching from my KEF Q500s back to the XPS panels.  That character goes away after listening for a short period of time but I know its there and blame that characteristic on the XPS material.

I went back to the thin ply panels and really enjoyed them at first but after listening to them for longer now I remember the quality that I didn't like either and its hard to explain but overall, there is a lack of detail and liveliness that I really like with XPS... there is a thin haze with the ply panels and no matter what I do with the freq. response I really can't get rid of it with EQ so assume it is the ply material.  But I'm not giving up on the ply.  I want to find a finish (like Danish oil) that sinks deep into the ply... to give it more of a solid sound?!?  I want something light and think maybe even your water and PVA will be able to sink in and firm up the wood fibers?!?  Also going to round the corners and tighten up the panels with balsa strips and to keep the edges straight.

What have other folks tried for treatments on ply?

[Odal3]

What have other folks tried for treatments on ply?

- Have tried PVA glue-mix per the XPS/EPS receipe. Didn't do much if I remember it correctly (no significant change on measured frequency response or noticable difference in sound).
- Properly gluing the exciter made a big improvementon my panels.

Have you tried larger panels and cross lower to get some more dynamics?

[OB_Newbie]

Time to go exciter shopping again. I need to get a whole bunch of exciters for some panels that is not going to play so loud so I'm wondering which of the lower priced one to get. So far I have pretty much focused on the 40W ones, but need some new ones to experiment with on tiny panels.

How are the Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4? or any other good low cost options?

On a different topic: These smaller bass shakers have caught my attention as a potential for sub panel - TT25-16 PUCK. Anyone tried one?

BTW: The newer one Dayton DAEX32Q ones are on sale, but are they any good? OB - did you get yours to sound good once 'broken-in'?

Hey Odal!  I'm afraid that the DAEX32Q-4 that I have mounted on XPS are not great sounding... even after listening for many hours now.  But that is on XPS and still want to try it on ply.  They seem to be built very well and are quiet on the panel and smooth sounding.  How much of that is due to the mid-range coloration (kind of a cupped hands, hollow sounding) I am not sure.  But they warrant trying on different panel materials honestly.

For a low(er) cost exciter the Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4 Framed High Efficiency 25mm Exciter 24W 4 Ohm is excellent.  This was the first exciter that brought the magic of flat panel sound into my listening room.  Even on 2'x2' XPS with square corners and edges it still sounds nice and IS INDEED efficient.  I think I am also going to order more of these to play with if any other than being easy to try other panel materials more easily.   

[Odal3]

We need to ask PartsExpress to send out review exciters to the people posting on this thread - it would help their sales too! 

[OB_Newbie]

- Have tried PVA glue-mix per the XPS/EPS receipe. Didn't do much if I remember it correctly (no significant change on measured frequency response or noticable difference in sound).
- Properly gluing the exciter made a big improvementon my panels.

Have you tried larger panels and cross lower to get some more dynamics?

Was that on 1/8" ply?  I can see how that really would be able to sink into enough of the wood to make a large change.  Not even sure about the thin 1/16" but want to try something just to see what can be done.  I doubt it will hurt.  Want some treatment that will sink in and not dry fast.  Danish oil fits that requirement... will probably go in that direction to begin with.

I have not tried the larger panels yet but after I get more exciters that will work better on ply I think I may so I can give ply the best test drive possible.  The 24"x30", 1/16" panels go pretty low and have the sub crossed to the panels around 70 hz.  I'm still not sold on the quality of the low frequencies of DML panels still today.  Definitely on XPS as the LF response is not as smooth as on ply. 

I have been enjoying the addition of a little Dayton sub.  For the money it performs on par if not possibly slightly better than my KEF Q500... very similar extension and sound quality and slight advantage on cabinet/port resonances.  The KEF might have a very slight edge in detail and may also play a bit louder more cleanly that the Dayton but for $99 its a very nice performing and good looking sub woofer.  Just finding it a really nice, inexpensive way to add more slam and to these value leading panels.  I'm still amazed how nice these flat panels sound for so little time and cash.       

[osssyvan]

Odal,

Sign board in huge size for full frame? I think without filter those high freqs will fry our cats.

I just got two TT25-8 pucks so if you have ideas on woofer panel, shoot. I am going to try them as supposed use is under couch but can easily do some panel tests if i have the materials.

-ossi

Sedge - Excited to see more on the ply panels! Still my favourite! I even had a bass ply panel behind my couch for a while to even out the room modes (only took it away since I needed the exciter for a new experiment)

Ossyvan and Sweenz27-
Re - Gatorboard. In the US, it's easy to get hold of either gatorplast or gatorfoam and I have tried both but only in small sample sizes. I liked the foam version better, and I got better result with this than the XPS. But again, not sure how it will sound full panel. A bit too pricy in large sizes.

The aluminum/brushed cupper looking sign boards are interesting. I tried a small sized sample.  They take a hit on db vs wood, but - they take the frequency way way up - perhaps past my measurement range. In fact, I had to put a Low pass on it around 20Hz since it "tickled" in the ears - couldn't really hear the signal other than it felt somewhat uncomfortable. So very promising as a small tweeter panel.

Time to go exciter shopping again. I need to get a whole bunch of exciters for some panels that is not going to play so loud so I'm wondering which of the lower priced one to get. So far I have pretty much focused on the 40W ones, but need some new ones to experiment with on tiny panels.

How are the Dayton Audio DAEX25FHE-4? or any other good low cost options?

On a different topic: These smaller bass shakers have caught my attention as a potential for sub panel - TT25-16 PUCK. Anyone tried one?

BTW: The newer one Dayton DAEX32Q ones are on sale, but are they any good? OB - did you get yours to sound good once 'broken-in'?