[topround]

I think I am drifting towards the dark side.
I may become active in this circle.
Low power and no crossover may just do it for me.
Will see tomorrow, whether the abby's do it for me, of course coupled with a good SET.

Thanks
Mike

[jrebman]

Dave, "approximately" is the key word here.

Mike,

Are those Cain-Cain Abbys?  One of the few peices of gear I truly regret ever selling.  The drivers could use a little tweaking, and the internal wiring changed, but they're quite good as they are.  Use the spikes -- they make a huge difference.

Was almost going to buy another pair when I de cided on the Alerions.

-- Jim

[topround]

Jim,
Yes, cain and cain abby's.
Going to listen to a friends pair, what changes to wire would you reccommend?
I am new to this area of audio, have been a high power tube guy, but may be seeing the folly of my way.
I am after beauty, truth and beauty

thanks
mike

[jrebman]

Mike,

A bit pricey, but the internal speaker wire from Chimera Labs is amazing.  Hand litz-braided from cryoed enameled OCC wire.

http://www.chimeralabs.com

No affiliation, just a very satisfied customer with interconnects, speaker cables and internal speaker wiring.

Note that I have not tried it on the Abbys but on another fostex driver speaker.  To get max benefit out of the internal wire you'll probably want to upgrade the binding posts to low mass copper -- bare or with direct gold plating, such as the Vampire BPHEXCB.

IMO the Abbys don't like silver wire.

-- Jim

[topround]

Jim,
Just bought the Abby's. Will pick them up this weekend. The owner said the same thing about silver wire. A no no with the Abby's in his opinion, do you use the Chimera as speaker cable as well?
I currently use Kimber Silver so I guess I a have to buy some copper for these speakers.

Thanks
Mike

[jrebman]

Mike,

Yes, in my office system it's Chimera from DAC to amp, from amp to speakers and internal to speakers, and when the new speakers get here I'll eventually get the Chimera speaker cables for them too.

-- Jim

[kyrill]

I use  ( in OB but that is not my main point) the Visaton B200 but use the speaker between 150Hz and 8 kHz. Above that i use a tweeter and for low a sub bass, both with active Xovers.

Is it allowed here to inform about true single drivers but not for using it as a single driver?
I found out that the magic of single drivers ( to my ears) is mainly between 100 and 5-8kHz ( certainly not 3kHz) Those drivers designed for that spectrum do not to my knowledge exist. They can be found how ever in a single band driver. Discussions which driver sounds best in this "critical" region would be a discussion i would be very interested about

Other circles cannot at all answer this question unless they move their interest to single drivers . Maybe a world first?

[JohnR]

That sounds like a fine topic for the OB circle... (?)

[SET Man]

Hey!

   As for a SD user since 2002... with SET of course. It is nice to see this Circle back on.

Take care,
Buddy

[SET Man]

Jim,
Just bought the Abby's. Will pick them up this weekend. ...

Thanks
Mike

Hey!

   Wow! Never thought that you would get into SD Mike/topround.

   As mentioned before on the NYAR circle... welcome to my world of SD/SET Mike/topround. Even you are not going to stick with it down the road at least you know what they can do, more than most people think actually.

    Looking forward to listen to your system someday.

Take care,
Budd

[Mariusz]

Jim,
Just bought the Abby's. Will pick them up this weekend. The owner said the same thing about silver wire. A no no with the Abby's in his opinion, do you use the Chimera as speaker cable as well?
I currently use Kimber Silver so I guess I a have to buy some copper for these speakers.

Thanks
Mike

Hi Mike and congrats on your new SD venture.
I'm definitely not an expert in SD designs or have the formula for speaker or interconnect choice.
What I can say from my experience is that SCC or stranded copper works best in my setup. There is also some differences in AWG used with particular drivers but all in all, the choice of wiring is up to the end user, budget, associated equipment and preferences. LAT also makes nice cables which are silver infused copper. To try them on the cheap, use their inexpensive hook-up wire, which is essentially the same what is used in their ready products. They have few AWG to choose from.
Another option would be to use exactly the same wire used in Abbys and whatever feels right for ICs.

Good luck and hope to hear your new speakers sometime in the future.

Mariusz

[topround]

Buddy and Mariusz,
Thank you for the intro to  the SD world.
I am happy. I was very suprised by what they can do, they can't do it all but what they do, they do better than anything else Iv'e heard.
Playing the Abby's now with a SET el 34 integrated amp.
It smoked my Quicksilver with these speakers, the Quicky just was plain bad with these speakers.
Came with some shitty tubes so I am about to roll, fortunately I have plenty of el 34's around With 3 extra sets of tubes for the Quicksilver I have enough el34's to last a lifetime.  Now to find the right ones!
I like this, my dreams of Cremonas and Proacs are on hold for now
Mike

[Mariusz]

Buddy and Mariusz,
Thank you for the intro to  the SD world.
I am happy. I was very suprised by what they can do, they can't do it all but what they do, they do better than anything else Iv'e heard.
Playing the Abby's now with a SET el 34 integrated amp.
It smoked my Quicksilver with these speakers, the Quicky just was plain bad with these speakers.
Came with some shitty tubes so I am about to roll, fortunately I have plenty of el 34's around With 3 extra sets of tubes for the Quicksilver I have enough el34's to last a lifetime.  Now to find the right ones!
I like this, my dreams of Cremonas and Proacs are on hold for now
Mike

My "dream" speakers are put to bad long time ago.
One of the main reasons and beauty of SD designs is simplicity and comparability with amps which are of limits to those with less efficient speaker. Also, eliminating Xover from the chain has its virtues. Yes, there are great designs on both fronts but SD are just magical in the way other designs can only dream of. But like someone already said, it might not be everyone's cup of tea.

I have visited Louis today(Omega) and we try some low power amp with his speakers and  he couldn't get back to work ....... it sounded so good. Try that with other speaker designs. But like everything in audio, SD designs have their limitations. If you can live with that,.... power to you.

You might also checkout few amp designs from AC vendors if possible. Some designs look very promising.
Decware Audio also makes great, inexpensive stuff - highly recommended.

Cheers
Mariusz

[richidoo]

Mike and others... fwiw, changing tubes might not make much difference. Single drivers prefer current source amplifiers. You can use an amp designed as such or you can use a voltage amp that has very good current sourcing ability (more power.) Easier to do with SS, transistors are good at sourcing current. But tubes musicality and nuanced tone is often preferred with exotic full range drivers, so you have to choose tube amps carefully. Usually a more powerful tube amp can 'git er dun'

More: http://www.passdiy.com/pdf/cs-amps-speakers.pdf

[Scott F.]

Buddy and Mariusz,
Thank you for the intro to  the SD world.
I am happy. I was very suprised by what they can do, they can't do it all but what they do, they do better than anything else Iv'e heard.
Playing the Abby's now with a SET el 34 integrated amp.
It smoked my Quicksilver with these speakers, the Quicky just was plain bad with these speakers.
Came with some shitty tubes so I am about to roll, fortunately I have plenty of el 34's around With 3 extra sets of tubes for the Quicksilver I have enough el34's to last a lifetime.  Now to find the right ones!
I like this, my dreams of Cremonas and Proacs are on hold for now
Mike

Hey Mike,

If you like the triode strapped EL34 sound, just wait until you hear a real SET, something like a 2A3 or 300b driving your Abbeys. You will fall in love all over again. There truly is something to the SET magic we SET guys all talk about. You'll experience it eventually.

Hey, now I know you may not want to hack up your Fostex drivers right away but there is a tweak you can do that will help (dramatically) with that midrange megaphonish sound they can sometimes take on. One of the guys out there (I think he is at DIY Audio) sells a phase plug for the Fostex. It works pretty darned well. One of the local guys down here uses it on his. All you do is take a razor knife and cut off the dust cap (not the whizzer). The phase plug has a magnet in it and it sticks to the motor of the driver. The tweak takes a steady hand and about ten minutes. The phase plug sells for like $50-$75 bucks (I could be wrong on the price).

The good part of that tweak is if you don't like the sound of it, you haven't hacked up a $2k pair of Lowthers or PHY's. Paul Joppa (of Bottlehead) also came up with a notch filter that installs between your pre and your amp. Its adjustable, has a minor insertion loss associated with it and is fairly transparent. I've played with those too. It works pretty well if you don't want to hack up your drivers.

Then...(I know, I'm going on and on), if you want some serious bass out of the Fostex, try a back loaded horn. Mark(@marktwain) did this and Holy Crap do those things have some slam. No need for subs with the back loaded horn....well maybe for that last octave.

OK, and one last one, if you are thinking about a sub, consider the Dayton 10" sealed. Its cheap, fast enough to match with the Abbey's fairly well. Mark (Blackmore) does that with his Abbeys.

I'll see if I can't get those two to chime in to give you better pointers than me since they have lived long term with their Abbeys and Fostex back horns.

[topround]

Scott,
Thanks for the info.I will try that tweak, and any others that come along.
I have a sub coming next week, forget the name, it is a loaner from a friend that says it is super fast. 2  8 inch woofers with a servo, says it will work really well with the abby's.
Also that el 34 amp is going under the knife by the same guy..Vinny. It may be very different when I get it back :lol:almost always alot better, he knows his stuff.
He is more excited than I am

Has anyone tried adding a supertweeter?

And yes Scott I am excited about a 300 B SET
I hear only great things about them.

This is a whole new world, filled with possibilities.

Thanks all
Mike

[Scott F.]

And yes Scott I am excited about a 300 B SET
I hear only great things about them.

This is a whole new world, filled with possibilities.

..mwuuuhaahaa.....yet another one sipping at the Koolaid  ...soon the world will be ours...OURS I tell you 

[jrebman]

Mike,

There is a version of the Abby called the super Abby which has a back-firing supertweeter and an L-pad to control it's level, and the main driver is different as well.  The phase plug is a great idea.  Try the phase plug first -- you may find you don't want a super tweeter.

Also, finding the right amp for these can take a bit f doing, but Terry Cain often said that a good SET amp with a big power cord is where the magic is.  He also drove these nicely, but not at ear-splitting volumes, with the Bottlehead s.e.x. amp -- which could be a coo kit for you and your son to try.

The one word of caution here is to be patient -- some combinations of amps and speakers will sound terrible and others magical.  On some amps rolling tubes makes a big difference, on others, not so much -- depends on the design of the amp, and a zillion other factors that would be impossible to predict with lots and lots of measurements, and even then, surprises will happen.

Welcome aboard!

-- Jim

[Mariusz]

Here are some tweaks besides the phase plug ugrade (which should cost you around $10).

Benefits of PODGING paper cone are as fallow:

the cone if made more acoustically opaque so there is less time-delayed reflection from inside the enclosure coming back thru the cone
it bonds the paper fibres together so that it is harder for them to resonate/rub together
the cone is stiffened. With one or both sides of a paper driver plastic coated, you end up with a very well-damped, multi-layer cone.

Duck seal is used to shape the driver basket  and reduce vibrations.


Mariusz

[Mariusz]

you can try less expensive Fostex supertweater FT96H with attenuator.
http://www.madisound.com/catalog/PDF/fostexdrivers/ft96hrev.pdf
or go all the way and get their superb T500AmkII


Mariusz

edit

another interesting ST: