[Kevin Haskins]

I took some quick video of the Gen II Maelstrom.   Nothing earth shaking here but it gives you a good idea of what to expect in terms of overall travel.    It is hard to capture in a video.   Some of the noise is my saw-horses rocking, some of it the driver as you near the limits.    Free air is the worst-case situation in terms of suspension noise.   Much is masked once you put it in an enclosure.    When you hit gross levels, and the suspension starts making a knocking noise, that will be heard even when its in the enclosure.   

The other thing to point out is that it doesn't take much to overdrive it in free-air.   In a box, you have a lot more protection.   

I'm sure I'll get the standard questions.   

"Can we get more?" 

"What can be done to increase output?"

The answer is spend more money.   At this point, we would need to design more suspension, increase motor, and tool another basket to get more output.    All of those things would significantly increase the cost of the driver.   I think we are at a good place in terms of Performance/Dollar and I don't want to upset that applecart so I don't foresee any further design changes.    I'm very pleased with the current design.

The answer for more output, is of course going to be the 21" version.   More money, more size, more swept volume.    The Sicko is our "cost is not an object" design which does everything mentioned above.    It will increase motor, tool a new basket, tool upgraded suspension.   The reality is, that it takes massive amounts of power to use what the Maelstrom already has.   More stroke takes more power.... no way around it.    The efficiency of a sub is set by factors that include the size of the box, and the bandwidth of the device so we are somewhat between a rock & a hard place when it comes to increasing efficiency.     

Enough rambling for now.... enjoy. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIKfkzygw7Y

[JohnR]

Kevin, when you say it's hitting the suspension, I think you should also point out just how LOUD that would be playing at audio frequencies

[Kevin Haskins]

Kevin, when you say it's hitting the suspension, I think you should also point out just how LOUD that would be playing at audio frequencies

It isn't loud at all in free-air.         That is about 70mm peak-peak.   You will hit the back-plate at about 40mm rearward.   I can push it that hard with my F1200-TS in free-air.   In a box I probably wouldn't have enough power to smack the rear-plate.   

To me, loud isn't impressive.   I'm mainly concerned with quality not quantity but you have to have both for home theater.    The requirements for output and bandwidth far exceed what you need compared to just 2-channel music.    These are not really overkill in large home theaters.   In those types of installs you need all the output you can afford so what is silly in one application is necessary in another.   

 

[JohnR]

OK... I guess I'm just tryin' to say that you may be a little too matter-of-fact at times... - the way you talk in the video it sounds like the driver banging into the limits is just normal, most people watching the video won't realize that in a real world situation (in a box, room, etc) that simply is not going to happen until a phenomenal level of quality output is reached...

[Kevin Haskins]

OK... I guess I'm just tryin' to say that you may be a little too matter-of-fact at times... - the way you talk in the video it sounds like the driver banging into the limits is just normal, most people watching the video won't realize that in a real world situation (in a box, room, etc) that simply is not going to happen until a phenomenal level of quality output is reached...

Good point!   I tend to assume people understand a certain things and that is often not the case.

I have people running them 3000-4000W per driver and they can reach the limits, but most builds with more sane amounts of power will have a very difficult time reaching 30mm one-way.   

Translation:   It is difficult to drive them hard enough to get them to complain.   Before they get to that point, they sound like any properly designed sub should (better than most if everything is executed right).

I'd use some audio expletives but I just don't have it in me.     

[woodsyi]

There is no freaking way I can bottom out on these drivers.  Bottles, CDs and books are rattling and jumping out of the shelves way before that.  I don't think I can even if I tried with a dedicated 1000W (~600W in real time?) PE amp. 

No complaints though.   

[Kevin Haskins]

There is no freaking way I can bottom out on these drivers.  Bottles, CDs and books are rattling and jumping out of the shelves way before that.  I don't think I can even if I tried with a dedicated 1000W (~600W in real time?) PE amp. 

No complaints though. 

Yea... you need a lot more power to really abuse them.     It is funny because my background and interest is mainly in 2-channel.   I have a 27" TV and happily watch my movies on it.    Most of my customers, for the subs at least, are HT guys and they have very different requirements than you have for a sub for 2-channel use.   

The video was mainly for the HT guys who run subs hard.   Most 2-channel people look at that and it has no relevance.   Part of the reason for the disconnect is that two different groups of people look at that video, and come away with different perceptions.      High-output subs are almost an offense to guys focused on 2-channel music.   For HT guys, that is the cat's meow.   They want as much output as they can buy so they really focus on how much total output they can get in any given installation.   From my perspective, the two goals should not be mutually exclusive.   A HT sub should function the same as a sub you would use for music, but just have more total output and headroom.   

[Craig Treusdell]

So you like 2 channel, eh? How many channels is Techmaster PEB?

And while I'm mainly in it for HT, I'd still like something for outdoors by the pool (not an outdoor speaker) or in a very large room... DJ'ish if you will. 21 might do the trick 

[Kevin Haskins]

So you like 2 channel, eh? How many channels is Techmaster PEB?

You can probably enjoy it in mono.   

And while I'm mainly in it for HT, I'd still like something for outdoors by the pool (not an outdoor speaker) or in a very large room... DJ'ish if you will. 21 might do the trick 

Hey... you can put it in your bathroom if that tickles your fancy.   Might even help with difficult bowl movements.   

[TomW16]

Hey... you can put it in your bathroom if that tickles your fancy.   Might even help with difficult bowl movements.

A medicinal subwoofer to scare the crap out of you 

[Kevin Haskins]

Hey... you can put it in your bathroom if that tickles your fancy.   Might even help with difficult bowl movements.

A medicinal subwoofer to scare the crap out of you 

Yea.... this could be a whole new market for me.   

[richidoo]

Nikola Tesla made just such a vibrating platform using his patented invention the "mechanical oscillator."

Tesla's good friend Mark Twain, a regular visitor to the laboratory, standing on the vibrating platform to his great surprise and pleasure, extoling its theraputic effects while repeatedly ignoring the inventor's warnings to get down. Before long, he was made aware of its laxative effects and ran stiffly to the water closet.

http://www.excludedmiddle.com/earthquake.htm

[Kevin Haskins]

Nikola Tesla made just such a vibrating platform using his patented invention the "mechanical oscillator."

Tesla's good friend Mark Twain, a regular visitor to the laboratory, standing on the vibrating platform to his great surprise and pleasure, extoling its theraputic effects while repeatedly ignoring the inventor's warnings to get down. Before long, he was made aware of its laxative effects and ran stiffly to the water closet.

http://www.excludedmiddle.com/earthquake.htm

Hey... great minds think alike.         I'll have to experiment with my saw horses and the commode.