Why do you like tube gear?

Niteshade · « **on:** 30 Jun 2009, 06:05 pm »

I just wanted to know what you like about your tube equipment, even the hybrid stuff like DAC's and CD players.

Do you like the sound, the science behind the technology, a little of each?

ltr317 · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 06:22 pm »

I like modern (last 15 years or so) tube equipment because of the warmth in the mid-range and slight attenuation of the treble fequencies. I find most vintage tube equipment a bit too warm and syrupy, and solid state equipment too cold and unemotional. Hybrid sound is obviously a compromise, and the sound falls a distant second to an all tube modern system. As for technology, I prefer solid state or the digital switching amps over the fairly high maintenance of tube equipment.

rajacat · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 06:51 pm »

I'm fond of the sexy glow of tubes at night. aa Most of the so-called maintenance issues are related to the necessary periodic replacement of worn out tubes and adjustment of the bias. I find that tube replacement just gives me an opportunity to engage in the joys of tube rolling.

My tube monoblocks don't seem to attenuate high frequencies and I also own some digital amps for comparison. However, to my ears, the digital amps seems to attenuate the mid-range.

-Roy

mgalusha · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 08:20 pm »

The sound, pure and simple.

yeah, cheesy answer but for me it's the only logical reason.

I *think* much of it has to do with lower levels of high order harmonics, which tubes seem to have less of. I suspect part of this is because quite a bit of tube gear has lower levels of feedback that most SS gear. No, I have no hard and fast evidence of this but over the years I've come to enjoy gear with less though not necessarily zero feedback.

The fact that it's easy to work on and repair is a bonus.

Browntrout · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 09:53 pm »

Transparancy, effortless power, finesse, honesty, huge bandwidth, instant transients, delicacy, naturalness really pretty flawless. Though mains quality pays a big part in their performance.

bunky · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 11:09 pm »

Tubes sound more lifelike and musical than solid state in my humble opinion. Rolling tubes gives you the opportunity to fine tune your rig to suit your personal taste. Tubes are beautiful to look at ....WCW III

zybar · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 Jun 2009, 11:37 pm »

Because it allows me to connect with the music more than SS gear.

Plain and simple.

Now off to listen to the 37 tubes in my setup.

George

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #7 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 12:05 am »

This is a nice question.

I like modern tube gear only, as mono Power Amps, Preamps, or mono integrated (that do not exists in the market).
The reasons are greatest sound, ancient technology, beautiful looking and heats the room in winter.

I like Triode, class A, preferably ciclotron, 50 to 80W/8 ohms, OTL is better, but I can accept a OTCoupled too.
I do not like the usual mass(6550,KT88,EL34,300B etc...) tubes. I prefer 6C33,211 and 6AS7, and 6H30,6SN7,12AX7,6DJ8,6350 etc for input tubes.
I also like Single Triode input tubes as the 6J5 (a half 12AX7), but all manufactures today use Dual Triodes on input.
Why they use only Dual Triodes on the input tubes positions ?
Regards,

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 12:08 am »

In addition to just plain sounding good, I like how tubes seperate the individual instruments in a recording. My system sounds more like several different instruments and less like a congealed whole (I'm guessing this is because of the sharper transients).

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 12:39 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 1 Jul 2009, 12:05 am

This is a nice question. I like modern tube gear only, as mono Power Amps, Preamps, or mono integrated (that do not exists in the market).
The reasons are greatest sound, ancient technology, beautiful looking and heats the room in winter.

I like Triode, class A, preferably ciclotron, 50 to 80W/8 ohms, OTL is better, but I can accept a OTCoupled too.
I do not like the usual mass(6550,KT88,EL34,300B etc...) tubes. I prefer 6C33,211 and 6AS7, and 6H30,6SN7,12AX7,6DJ8,6350 etc for input tubes.
I also like Single Triode input tubes as the 6J5 (a half 12AX7), but all manufactures today use Dual Triodes on input.
Why they use only Dual Triodes on the input tubes positions ?
Regards,

Sounds like we have similar tastes.

I have Atma-Sphere MA-1's mono blocks (that use the 6AS7 output tubes) and Audio Mirror 45 SET mono blocks (that use the 6C33 output tubes) - all in Class A.

George

Quiet Earth · « **Reply #10 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 12:57 am »

Wow! Great descriptions about why you prefer tubes guys!

I agree with all of it, especially the emphasis placed on choosing tubes for good sound. Sure, the technology part is fun, but you can get your technology fix with solid state gear too, so that can't be the only reason. Well, not for me anyway.

If an I-pod and active speakers sounded better to me, then that's what I would own. But it doesn't, so I don't.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #11 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 01:15 am »

Quote from: zybar on 1 Jul 2009, 12:39 am

Sounds like we have similar tastes.
I have Atma-Sphere MA-1's mono blocks (that use the 6AS7 output tubes) and Audio Mirror 45 SET mono blocks (that use the 6C33 output tubes) - all in Class A.
George

Congratulations, you are a lucky guy. The Atma-Sphere Ciclotron Amps are really very special gears.
I think there is no one Atma-Sphere Amp here in Brazil.
The MA-1 is too much for me, the M60-MK3 could fill my room nicely (220Volts of course). You have a great system.

Scott F. · « **Reply #12 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 02:31 am »

Quote from: mgalusha on 30 Jun 2009, 08:20 pm

The sound, pure and simple. yeah, cheesy answer but for me it's the only logical reason.

I *think* much of it has to do with lower levels of high order harmonics, which tubes seem to have less of. I suspect part of this is because quite a bit of tube gear has lower levels of feedback that most SS gear. No, I have no hard and fast evidence of this but over the years I've come to enjoy gear with less though not necessarily zero feedback.

The fact that it's easy to work on and repair is a bonus.

What Mike said

Tyson · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 02:55 am »

With tubes, it becomes less about the sound, and more about the music. For me, at least.

The other nice thing is that when pushed toward their limits, tube amps simply stop getting louder but still sound nice. Non-tube amps tend to get ugly as they approach their limits.

JackD201 · « **Reply #14 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 04:04 am »

Fluidity

SET Man · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 04:10 am »

Hey!

Short answer : Sound.

Long answer : Hmmm.... Oh! bother, there is none.

Take care,
Buddy

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 04:30 am »

Quote from: JackD201 on 1 Jul 2009, 04:04 am

Fluidity

Dear JACKD201,
Well, this fluidity for me seems a problem, or some side effect of something. Please explain how is this fluidity for you?
Lets see if this is the same that Iam think to be.
Some tube amps do not have fluidity in the sound, others have after afew time of listening etc... Wonder what is the cause of it ?

A output Transformer saturated? Maybe this is a effect found only in SETs amps, I feel multi tube amps do not have it, but I could be wrong.
Regards,

ltr317 · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 04:35 am »

Quote from: rajacat on 30 Jun 2009, 06:51 pm

I'm fond of the sexy glow of tubes at night. aa Most of the so-called maintenance issues are related to the necessary periodic replacement of worn out tubes and adjustment of the bias. I find that tube replacement just gives me an opportunity to engage in the joys of tube rolling.

My tube monoblocks don't seem to attenuate high frequencies and I also own some digital amps for comparison. However, to my ears, the digital amps seems to attenuate the mid-range.

-Roy

I've only heard a couple of digital switching amps, so can't comment on that type of amp in general. I can comment on solid state amps since I've heard over a hundred and almost every one has more treble than any of the 40 or 50 tube amps I've heard in my long experience with audio.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 05:38 am »

Quote

Why do you like tube gear?

Keeps me warm when its winter.....

JackD201 · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jul 2009, 06:32 am »

Quote from: FULLRANGEMAN on 1 Jul 2009, 04:30 am

Quote from: JackD201 on 1 Jul 2009, 04:04 am
Fluidity
Dear JACKD201,
Well, this fluidity for me seems a problem, or some side effect of something. Please explain how is this fluidity for you?
Lets see if this is the same that Iam think to be.
Some tube amps do not have fluidity in the sound, others have after afew time of listening etc... Wonder what is the cause of it ?
A output Transformer saturated? Maybe this is a effect found only in SETs amps, I feel multi tube amps do not have it, but I could be wrong.
Regards,

Hi FRMan,

I'm big on SETs and SE 0 NF in general. All my personal amps are Single Ended Zero Negative Feedback whether they be my SETs, SE-Parallels or Tube Hybrids.

For me fluidity is the way musical events are allowed to flow into one another. For me tubes in general manage to keep the individual acoustic envelopes more complete than most SS only designs which at least to my ears either truncate low level decay or stair step them so only the leading edges of the formants trail off stripped of harmonics. All in all a less realistic portrayal because aside from the tonal perspective, spatial propagation is affected too, rendering it flat or somewhat static. I believe in your country said propagation is often referred to as "bloom".

I put the harmonics in bold because inevitably someone will bring up the fact that tubes do in fact introduce harmonic distortion. My answer is as long as it is complementary, I can live with these distortions. Clearly I am not from the zero distortion camp being more subjectivist.

So fluidity for me is not the texture (syrupy or smooth) but rather the ability to have high degrees of resolution even at the lowest levels. This is not to say that all tubes do this though. I've heard some very big tube amps that unfortunately do not have this characteristic in ample quantity. Big Push Pull amps seem to have dynamics and transient speed as the priority. Low powered amps poorly executed with high self noise kill this advantage too. I say not the texture because if an amp is too syrupy or smooth by nature the it can take away from recordings that actually NEED some bite like Big Band stuff.

Fluid = Music flows

Anyhow, that's what it means to me.

As for the second part. As I am absolutely certain you already know, it could be any number of things from circuit design, part choice, operating points, bias schemes, or even just as simple as tube choice. Class A operation normally has more fluidity not just in tube designs but also with solid state designs. For those that develop fluidity over time, sometimes it's just some of the parts settling in. I had to babysit a 2a3 amp just to burn in their coupling caps (V-Caps). The owner actually bought a pair of budget output tubes just to break the amp in and save his RCA stash. In time things came together.

Jack