Archos and HT2 impressions

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #20 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 04:09 pm »

Quote from: targa02 on 20 Jun 2009, 04:04 pm

Quote from: Woolz on 19 Jun 2009, 12:39 am
targa02, wonderful, I am glad they have an appreciative home. I always liked to think the maple made them sound special.

Hi Woolz, I am not sure whether the maple makes them sound special, but they are certainly a big step up from the Rocket 1000s they replaced! I am driving them with a Wyred ST 250 (125watts/8) currently, but am going to upgrade to the Wyred ST 500 later this month. Rick Cullen is great to work with BTW.

Yes he is. Very trustworthy and pragmatic about what he decides to take on.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #21 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 12:58 pm »

Jim let me borrow the original prototype pair of Archos speakers Sunday and I'll have some observations of my own soon. Interesting speaker for sure.

zybar · « **Reply #22 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 01:04 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 23 Jun 2009, 12:58 pm

Jim let me borrow the original prototype pair of Archos speakers Sunday and I'll have some observations of my own soon. Interesting speaker for sure.

Look forward to hearing your comments Pete.

Will you be able to put some good tube amplification on them?

George

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #23 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 01:16 pm »

I have no bananas, er, tube amps. I have an Electrocompaniet AW220 and a DAC4800A - 70 wpc and 380 wpc. They are very efficient speakers. 6 o'clock is 0 db and I haven't got past 10 o'clock and it's LOUD. Had to do that with Hocus Pocus by Focus - rockin' out! Not the right speaker for that tune.

zybar · « **Reply #24 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 02:41 pm »

Quote from: Big Red Machine on 23 Jun 2009, 01:16 pm

I have no bananas, er, tube amps. I have an Electrocompaniet AW220 and a DAC4800A - 70 wpc and 380 wpc. They are very efficient speakers. 6 o'clock is 0 db and I haven't got past 10 o'clock and it's LOUD. Had to do that with Hocus Pocus by Focus - rockin' out! Not the right speaker for that tune.

Pete,

Depending on how long your loan is from Jim, I could possibly loan you some nice amplification for just the cost of you covering shipping.

Shoot me a PM if there is any interest.

George

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #25 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 09:13 pm »

Well, I'll need to gain some more familiarity with them, but will keep that generous offer in mind.

Nuance · « **Reply #26 on:** 23 Jun 2009, 10:06 pm »

I look forward to your impressions, Pete.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 Jul 2009, 09:45 pm »

Getting there. Very cable dependent. I'm working the pieces to maximize the toe tapping. Very close. You have to tame those tweeters. I am sure I prefer ribbons but you can live with the domes if you are careful.

martyo · « **Reply #28 on:** 13 Aug 2009, 05:32 pm »

Pete, any new impressions?

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #29 on:** 13 Aug 2009, 05:41 pm »

Almost there. Need to make up one more cable and try some different speaker cables.

Time is tight as there is football practice every night and my wife works until 9 PM most nights.

I think you'll be surprised at what is in my system these days.

martyo · « **Reply #30 on:** 13 Aug 2009, 06:08 pm »

Quote

I think you'll be surprised at what is in my system these days.

Surprise me when you have a chance.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #31 on:** 10 Nov 2009, 06:04 pm »

Raising the dead thread....

New amps to audition; Dodd 120 watt monoblocks

They arrived with some damaged Oak side panels, so off to the Salk shop for some exotic wood dumpster diving, and whalla! Burled maple side panels! Look pretty? Jim's crew cut them for me and I sanded them and polyurethaned them.

Does anyone know if I can use KT66's in place of the KT77's presently in the amp?

avahifi · « **Reply #32 on:** 10 Nov 2009, 08:49 pm »

Regarding amplifier power needed to drive the Archos speakers, at the last Detroit audio show (AKFest) Jim and I drove the Archos and Songtowers with a pre-production version of our 35W per channel Ultravalve vacuum tube amplifier in an "enormous" meeting room and seemed to have all the power necessary and great sound to boot.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #33 on:** 10 Nov 2009, 11:16 pm »

Yes, for sure. I'm planning ahead and hope to have HT2's or less efficient speakers someday.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 01:31 am »

Just to close this out. I sold the prototypes and will miss them. They did take some getting used to because that dome tweeter was unforgiving and I found it much more honest than a ribbon tweeter. Once I got to tube electronics and some cabling changes I felt the overall balance was much better. Then I went to some tweaks in the acoustic treatment arrangements and broadened the soundstage and reduced the rear reflecting sounds.

Given that the units were prototypes and the production units now use G2's, my assessment isn't really going to help anyone wanting the new versions. I'm a huge G2 fan and I was surprised how much output that dome produced. Not unbalanced, just a learning experience for me.

In the end I really enjoyed them. I felt the bass was a lot better than many would suspect for such an efficient design. After becoming familiar with them I felt they were very good at depth of soundstage and imaging. Never having any experience with the G2 version I don't know how much those would change if at all.

I did drive them with both SS and tube and preferred the musicality of tubes over SS. Certainly not much power required and using 120 wpc was overkill. I did use a 40 wpc tubed amp with good results and 60 wpc SS as well. At one time I augmented the bass with a small sub and found that very nice but the sub was barely on in case you were wondering how much was needed.

Definitely another winner and worth an audition.

DMurphy · « **Reply #35 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 02:41 am »

I'm not sure what you mean by a dome being more "honest" than a ribbon tweeter. I'm not aware of any information that a ribbon obscures and a dome reveals. It sounds more like a voicing issue than a technology issue.

Jeff B. · « **Reply #36 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 03:04 am »

I like the sound of ribbons a lot, and plan to switch my current home speakers over from the Peerless HDS to the AC G2. The crossover is complete, just need to modify the cabinets.

Having said that, tests I've seen show that the MDT33 has extremely low non-linear odd-order distortion , lower than any of the ribbons out there that I have seen tests on. Since non-linear odd order distortion can be audible, there may be a different "flavor" to the tweeter. Of course, directivity is very different too, and this changes how we perceive it as well.

However, voicing does certainly have a huge impact on all of this, but I tried very hard to balance the G2 to match the level as closely as possible to what it was with the MDT33.

Finally, one more observation: I have found that a dome with a strong low distortion motor seems to carry more dynamic "punch" at the lower end of its operating range compared to ribbons I have used, which may aid in the way it crosses over to a mibass. Ribbons, on the other hand, sound much more open and realistic at the top of their range. This probably correlates to better acoustic impedance matching with the air-load at the lower range for a dome vs. much lighter moving mass for the ribbon at the top. Still, there are many factors involved.

Jeff

Quote from: DMurphy on 19 Feb 2010, 02:41 am

I'm not sure what you mean by a dome being more "honest" than a ribbon tweeter. I'm not aware of any information that a ribbon obscures and a dome reveals. It sounds more like a voicing issue than a technology issue.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #37 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 03:25 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 19 Feb 2010, 02:41 am

I'm not sure what you mean by a dome being more "honest" than a ribbon tweeter. I'm not aware of any information that a ribbon obscures and a dome reveals. It sounds more like a voicing issue than a technology issue.

Being PC. I think Jeff captured what I was probably hearing. It makes sense to me given how much experience I had with the G2 and LCY and that dome really resonated with MY ears. I tamed it and was good to go. A non-issue with the production version.

DMurphy · « **Reply #38 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 03:59 pm »

Quote from: Jeff B. on 19 Feb 2010, 03:04 am

I like the sound of ribbons a lot, and plan to switch my current home speakers over from the Peerless HDS to the AC G2. The crossover is complete, just need to modify the cabinets.

Having said that, tests I've seen show that the MDT33 has extremely low non-linear odd-order distortion , lower than any of the ribbons out there that I have seen tests on. Since non-linear odd order distortion can be audible, there may be a different "flavor" to the tweeter. Of course, directivity is very different too, and this changes how we perceive it as well.

However, voicing does certainly have a huge impact on all of this, but I tried very hard to balance the G2 to match the level as closely as possible to what it was with the MDT33.

Finally, one more observation: I have found that a dome with a strong low distortion motor seems to carry more dynamic "punch" at the lower end of its operating range compared to ribbons I have used, which may aid in the way it crosses over to a mibass. Ribbons, on the other hand, sound much more open and realistic at the top of their range. This probably correlates to better acoustic impedance matching with the air-load at the lower range for a dome vs. much lighter moving mass for the ribbon at the top. Still, there are many factors involved.

Jeff

The only controlled, direct tweeter comparisons I've done with Salk speakers have involved the 0W1 or 0W2 vs. the LCY ribbon. The little Hiquphons no doubt lack the low-end impact of the larger Morel. But in the comparisons I've done, the LCY actually had more low end output than the Hiq's. Still, I believe in measurements, and it's pretty clear that ribbons (other than the super expensive RAAL) don't do as well as domes in odd-order distortion tests at lower frequencies. I think we agree that there are other ribbon attributes that overcome this in the reproduction of very high frequencies, but distortion is never a good thing. It's a tough nut to crack. The obvious answer might seem the use of a very small mid (like a dome) crossed to a ribbon for the highest frequencies. But that's clearly impossible in a 2-way, and in a 3-way with deep bass capabilities, the mid has to be able to get down cleanly to around 300 Hz to work well with a large woofer.

oneinthepipe · « **Reply #39 on:** 19 Feb 2010, 10:33 pm »

Quote from: DMurphy on 19 Feb 2010, 03:59 pm

The only controlled, direct tweeter comparisons I've done with Salk speakers have involved the 0W1 or 0W2 vs. the LCY ribbon. The little Hiquphons no doubt lack the low-end impact of the larger Morel. But in the comparisons I've done, the LCY actually had more low end output than the Hiq's. Still, I believe in measurements, and it's pretty clear that ribbons (other than the super expensive RAAL) don't do as well as domes in odd-order distortion tests at lower frequencies. I think we agree that there are other ribbon attributes that overcome this in the reproduction of very high frequencies, but distortion is never a good thing. It's a tough nut to crack. The obvious answer might seem the use of a very small mid (like a dome) crossed to a ribbon for the highest frequencies. But that's clearly impossible in a 2-way, and in a 3-way with deep bass capabilities, the mid has to be able to get down cleanly to around 300 Hz to work well with a large woofer.

How about a 4-way?