Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music

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mark6172021

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Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« on: 23 Jan 2021, 06:12 pm »
Hello,

I am a new member of AudioCircle mostly interested in Classical music, including opera.

I am interested in exchanging experiences with the application of omnidirectional speakers for classical music. I have a pair of Mirages OM-6 which I acquired new in the early 2000's. I have been satisfied with their performance. Still I would like to know if I am not quite extracting all their potential. So, thoughts about their placement and tuning would be appreciated.

I am not into more esoteric gear because I think that I would not be able to appreciate its steeper cost.

I am also curious about anyone experiences with Klipsch Heritage series (Forte III or Cornwall IV) for classical music.

Thanks!

Mark

S Clark

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #1 on: 23 Jan 2021, 09:55 pm »
I kept a pair of Design Acoustics D-12 speakers around for decades- let them go to a family friend last year- just because they handled classical music well.



 You might look are some of the offerings by Ohm Acoustics.

Tyson

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #2 on: 24 Jan 2021, 02:05 am »
I'm a big classical music listener and I run open baffle speakers in my downstairs system because OB (and Omni) speakers scale up for large classical music better than most box speakers (except for line arrays, which are also excellent with classical). 


I also have the Klipsch Forte III's but they are in my upstairs system.  I got them because they sounded good and I really loved the mid-mod look of them for my living room.  Definitely not an OB or Omni speaker.  However there is also a magic to the sound of well done horns that's hard to replicate with other speakers.  Soundstage isn't super amazing, but the sense of live music and insane macro and micro dynamic swings is just addictive. 

The Forte IIIs sound pretty good stock, but really strut their stuff if you hotrod them - https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=166996.0

dB Cooper

Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #3 on: 24 Jan 2021, 02:31 am »
Several point-source-omni contenders from this company (not all omi's are point-source)

https://www.morrisonaudio.com

S Clark, I have read that the DA-12's were designed by Roy Allison but don't know if that is true or not.

FullRangeMan

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #4 on: 24 Jan 2021, 02:39 am »
Mirage om6 are bipolar, for omnidirectional see speakers as MBL.

mark6172021

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #5 on: 24 Jan 2021, 02:44 am »
Thank you Tyson. BTW, very interesting work you're doing with Fortes! I am toying with the idea of getting a pair of Cornwalls but before setting appointments to have listening sessions, I want to know if anyone has experience with them and classical music. Most reviewers (Stereophlie, TAS, etc.) go for acoustic jazz at best which can be an indicator on tonality but not on their ability to scale. That's one of the reasons why I have been happy with my bipolar/omni OM-6's.

I have played a lot with their positions and have worked through the Master Speaker Setup method but was not convinced with the results I obtained by placing them over 3 feet from the front wall. I have them at nearly 3 feet from the side wall though but at 1' 9" from the FW. For some reason, bigger distances caused some nasality and harshness in the upper mid-range. What has been your experience with your OB's?

Tyson

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #6 on: 24 Jan 2021, 03:24 am »
Thank you Tyson. BTW, very interesting work you're doing with Fortes! I am toying with the idea of getting a pair of Cornwalls but before setting appointments to have listening sessions, I want to know if anyone has experience with them and classical music. Most reviewers (Stereophlie, TAS, etc.) go for acoustic jazz at best which can be an indicator on tonality but not on their ability to scale. That's one of the reasons why I have been happy with my bipolar/omni OM-6's.

I have played a lot with their positions and have worked through the Master Speaker Setup method but was not convinced with the results I obtained by placing them over 3 feet from the front wall. I have them at nearly 3 feet from the side wall though but at 1' 9" from the FW. For some reason, bigger distances caused some nasality and harshness in the upper mid-range. What has been your experience with your OB's?

I find that OB's need room treatment to sound best, just like any other speaker.  I tend to use absorption on the side walls and diffusion on the front wall (behind the speakers).  To me this gives the best balance of sound for an OB speaker in a room.  I have my GR Research Super 7's (which are planar magnetic OB speakers) about 5 feet from the front wall.  I've tried closer and farther and 5 feet sounds best in my room. 

Do you have any room treatments?  If not, you might look at doing that first before swapping out to new speakers.  Good room treatments can really breathe new life into your current setup. 

If you DO have treatments and you're still not happy, I'd say the Forte IIIs and the Cornwall IV's are both good options.  To my ear, the stock Forte III was smoother and tonally more accurate than the Cornwall IV, but the Cornwalls were more dynamic and scaled better.  I'm willing to bet that if the Cornwalls were hotrodded in the same way my Forte's were, you'd have a world class speaker on your hands.

ric

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #7 on: 24 Jan 2021, 02:26 pm »
Just my two cents, for what it's worth (2 cents!) I own a pair of Spatial Audio (M3TS) speakers that are amazing for classical music. Do some research and Spatial's use "controlled directivity" that is supposed to MINIMIZE room reflections, making them more room friendly than other OB designs. Of course the Klipsh products are very popular right now, but if you can, audition whatever you can, first.
As far as your current setup, just looking at the stands seems they would really benefit from some IsoAcoustics Orea's, and I highly recommend using IsoAcoustic products under your amp, speakers and source. You will find that the sound will tighten up and imaging will improve, AND they should have a 30 day trial. Good luck!

Tyson

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #8 on: 24 Jan 2021, 05:16 pm »
I agree with ric. If you love OB sound, then Spatial Audio has the best commercially available speakers out there right now.  Really well designed and great for classical particularly the X series.  On the other hand, if you don't mind some DIY then the GR Research NX-Ottica is probably the best reasonably sized OB speaker on the planet right now.  Either choice (Spatial or GR Research) is excellent.

sarora9

Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #9 on: 24 Jan 2021, 09:15 pm »
I listen 80% of the time to classical music and OB speakers work well for me in my multiuse open space .  I have had spatial X3's for a year and they have helped me get into choral music big time. (Not opera, but say Mahler and all types of sacred music and contemporary pieces, eg. Arvo Part.) X3's are extremely revealing, but with good electronics and cables can really shine.

My X3's are 3 feet from the front wall and the tweeters are about 7ft apart. My only room treatment (since it is a living room) is two floor standing alpha panels about 15 inches behind the X3's. (Somebody at GIK acoustics looked at my pictures and room diagram and suggested that.) They help to focus the sound and improve soundstage.


I had the DIY  NaO mini for a decade. They were good because they were light enough to move out of the way for kids' parties and such. They're now used for HT duties in another smaller room.

AndrewA

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #10 on: 24 Jan 2021, 09:42 pm »
I have one name for you: Shahinian.

They do a remarkable job of reproducing the concert hall experience.

The bigger the model the better, because you get more bass.  But just be sure to have enough watts on hand, because they are thirsty.

jcsperson

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #11 on: 25 Jan 2021, 12:24 am »
I'd love to hear a pair of these:


Duevel Sirius

jjss49

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #12 on: 25 Jan 2021, 03:36 am »
spatials have been mentioned

quad esl 63 for sure, classics for a reason

then there are ohm walsh models

grsimmon

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #13 on: 25 Jan 2021, 04:06 am »
If you are not interested in 'estoric gear' due to cost,  you could always just stick with Mirage.  I have owned both the Mirage OMD-15 and OMD-28.   You can pick these up on the used market,  and both give a good slice of the omnidirectional experience, including for classical. 

mark6172021

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #14 on: 26 Jan 2021, 03:19 pm »
I like the spatial effect that my OM-6 Mirages have. I was seduced by it when I first heard them coming from some ported JBL's from the 80s.

My space is the living room (H=12.5', W=11.9', L=21') and it is "treated" with big carpets over wooden floors, big sofa, 2 chairs, couple of paintings, and one of the side walls with a big bookshelf and an upright piano. There is not much reverb in the room but I have to place the speakers carefully because of the high ceilings and a standing wave at 29 Hz which gets activated by the OM-6's since they go down to 20 Hz.  Strangely, I found that if I moved them out into the room by 5-7' things are good but it is not practical for the living room. Between 3-5' they sound harsh. Instead at 2', the harshness disappears. Anyone has had similar experience in the with a 2'-5' issue? I read somewhere to never put speakers in the 2.5 to 5.5' range...

Also, anyone has direct experience with Ohms?

WGH

Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #15 on: 26 Jan 2021, 04:16 pm »
Also, anyone has direct experience with Ohms?

mick wolfe really likes his Ohm 1000's. Do a Search with "Ohm" and his name to read his posts or send him a PM.

I heard a friends Walsh TLS-1 (Ohm F) from HHR Exotic Speakers a couple of weeks ago but at $15,000 I would guess they are above your budget.
http://hhr-exoticspeakers.com/



HHR also sells the smaller Walsh Style TLS-4 Tweeter/Midrange Loudspeaker Modules 1PAIR DIY for $2750
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Walsh-Style-TLS-4-Tweeter-Midrange-Loudspeaker-Modules-1PAIR-DIY-Walsh-Speaker-/123710275614

These are new drivers with improvements and upgrades by Dale Harder in Parma Ohio. Dale is an Aerospace, Laser, Electro-Optics and Audio Engineer.

Yes they are as amazing as they look, one single driver. The wood base is solid (no woofer or port), all it does is hold the driver at ear level. The entire unit weighs 225 lbs each. The speakers sound similar to MBL. We listened to vinyl using a Well Tempered Classic turntable with a Soundsmith cartridge. Amps are the PS Audio Stellar monoblocks. Huge soundstage with a center image, the room sounded like a small club with excellent non-fatiguing sound and you don't need a sub.

Norman Tracy

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #16 on: 26 Jan 2021, 04:26 pm »
Yes the Ohm Walsh driver and German Physiks variant of same must be included in this discussion. The Walsh are even affordable. Never had the pleasure of hearing the Walsh. The German Physiks sounded quite good at CES 2005.

http://ohmspeaker.com/



https://www.german-physiks.com/


mark6172021

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #17 on: 26 Jan 2021, 08:09 pm »
The German Physics are significantly more expensive than the Ohms.

S Clark

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Re: Omnidirectional Speakers for Classical Music
« Reply #18 on: 27 Jan 2021, 01:17 am »
Yes the Ohm Walsh driver and German Physiks variant of same must be included in this discussion. The Walsh are even affordable. Never had the pleasure of hearing the Walsh....

When I first hear the Ohm model A back in the mid 70's it was the best sounding speaker I'd ever heard, but just out of college and newly married it was way out of my price range.  But I've followed that brand ever since, even owning a smaller model years later.  They are still one of the few true omni-directional speakers being produced.   I assume they are more efficient and durable than the early models.