Recommended speakers

Welborne · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Jul 2009, 11:28 am »

Seth,

Speaking of Audience speaker...I have collected over the years about 32 units of a special alnico mid-high driver from vintage Isphon, about 2 inches in diameter and have been hoping to make a tall line array without crossover (i.e. 16 units each channel). I have dropped this project for long time because I don't know what i could do with them, until you mentioned the Audience line array again. Can you shed some lights on any projects I could follow? I like opne baffle though...and how to wire those drivers altogether? they are about 5ohm each

virtue · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Jul 2009, 02:24 pm »

Audience spent more than 10 years perfecting their design and I have no idea what else they do to make those speakers sound so good other than using terrific 16ohm drivers and wiring them quite conventionally - they started with Bandor and moved to an Audience/ADI design - the A3. Frankly, you're going to have difficulty wiring 16+ 5ohm units together and producing a speaker with > 1 ohm impedance. Perhaps the Virtue TWO will drive 1 ohms (why not); you could test and let us know. We do have a line array topology in mind for the future but it's proprietary (not to us) and I can't tell you how it's done, sorry. Michael - want to point out some line array resources on the web?

planet10 · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 Jul 2009, 05:33 pm »

Quote from: virtue on 10 Jul 2009, 02:24 pm

you're going to have difficulty wiring 16+ 5ohm units together and producing a speaker with > 1 ohm impedance.

Why? Straight forward series/parallel with 16 drivers will get back 5 ohms.

dave

virtue · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 Jul 2009, 05:47 pm »

Thanks for the correction, Dave! Series is additive and parallel divides... I'm having a bad day.

Welborne · « **Reply #24 on:** 10 Jul 2009, 07:03 pm »

Quote from: planet10 on 10 Jul 2009, 05:33 pm

Quote from: virtue on 10 Jul 2009, 02:24 pm
you're going to have difficulty wiring 16+ 5ohm units together and producing a speaker with > 1 ohm impedance.

Why? Straight forward series/parallel with 16 drivers will get back 5 ohms.

dave

can you elaborate? do you mean....4 in a group wired in series, and then 4 sets of 4 wired in parallel and then back to 5ohm?

virtue · « **Reply #25 on:** 10 Jul 2009, 09:51 pm »

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/forum/thread/177977/need-help-wiring-line-array-to-keep-8-ohms

here was the first hit I found...

Resistance in series:

R = R1 + R2 + ...

Resistance in parallel:

1/R = 1/R1 + 1/R2 + ...

So you can wire two speakers you get a 16 ohm load. Do this with another set you have the other 16 ohm load. Then you parallel this configuration to get an 8 ohm load.

I hope that helps. You should be able to find enough pictures out there that explain how to wire in series and parallel

If you want to make a pair of speakers utilizing those drivers, with each speaker rated at 8 ohms, you need to wire each speaker in the following manner:
numbers refer to driver number, R(red, or plus) and B(black, or minus) refer to polarity of voice coil:

Speaker R----------1R----------3R
Speaker B----------2B----------4B
1B-----------2R
3B-----------4R

This is equivalent to:

(+)-----------
| |
D1 D3
| |
D2 D4
| |
(-)-----------

panomaniac · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 Jul 2009, 12:20 am »

The 3" driver line array from Audience worked much better than I ever thought it would. Very surprising. It's a good little driver, I have 1, but only 1! =(

So Welbourne you should be able to do something as long as you keep the drivers as close together as they can go. No idea how much bass you would get.

Welborne · « **Reply #27 on:** 16 Jul 2009, 05:04 pm »

Can Virtue 2 w/ 130w ps drive Apogee Duetta Signature with good result?

I have been offered a pair of this speaker at very resonable price, almost new old stock. But i heard those are very power hungry beast...

panomaniac · « **Reply #28 on:** 16 Jul 2009, 05:26 pm »

I think you will be right at the limit. Those planars do need a lot of power.
The Virtue can drive 2 ohms, and the 130W supply will be needed for the Apogees. But you might still be right at the limit.

Can you take your amp to the speaker to try?

Welborne · « **Reply #29 on:** 16 Jul 2009, 05:43 pm »

Quote from: panomaniac on 16 Jul 2009, 05:26 pm

I think you will be right at the limit. Those planars do need a lot of power.
The Virtue can drive 2 ohms, and the 130W supply will be needed for the Apogees. But you might still be right at the limit.

Can you take your amp to the speaker to try?

yes, i will see if the seller let me do just that..

Welborne · « **Reply #30 on:** 16 Jul 2009, 05:52 pm »

btw, i found an image of the small Isophon mid-high driver that I mentioned above. Looking at the large dustcap in the middle, don't they remind you of Audience A3 driver used in the line array system?

Welborne · « **Reply #31 on:** 16 Jul 2009, 05:53 pm »

Audience A3

virtue · « **Reply #32 on:** 17 Jul 2009, 06:27 am »

Yes, now that I think about it... Roger copied the entire design!!!!

(kidding) that's ridiculous.

The A3 is a marvel and is a not so subtle peek at the transducer end-game. We're anxiously awaiting the next 4" driver that ADI is developing. I think it will have as great an impact on sound reproduction as the Tripath chip will prove to have on amplification (by the time we're done with it).

panomaniac · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 Jul 2009, 02:38 pm »

They do look similar from the front.

But I doubt they sound anything alike. The A3 has a low Fs and large x-max to allow it to play low. And it will play low in a line array. What is given up is effeciency.
Your driver is probably 15-20dB more effecient.

Welborne · « **Reply #34 on:** 17 Jul 2009, 05:26 pm »

Quote from: panomaniac on 17 Jul 2009, 02:38 pm

They do look similar from the front.

But I doubt they sound anything alike. The A3 has a low Fs and large x-max to allow it to play low. And it will play low in a line array. What is given up is effeciency.
Your driver is probably 15-20dB more effecient.

I don't know about mine but i guess they are quite sensitive. They were the same midd-high used in Telefunken flagship monitor O85a where the famous v69a amp resides. I have seen a graph of these mid-high units and they are almost flat from 250hz to 17khz

MichaelDK · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Jul 2009, 02:13 pm »

Hello
I recently bought a pair of Sonus Faber Toy and the Virtue 1 really makes these babys sing. Sounds great - really good clarity and voices, space. In size the speakers match the V1 very fine too and after exchanging all the cds with a small Squeezebox receiver there is plenty off space for the music

Tarun · « **Reply #36 on:** 12 Aug 2009, 12:45 pm »

I use Omega XRS (4.5" hemp drivers, not the alnico version) with my Two. Sounds great 90% of the time... at other times, I wonder if I can do something to increase warmth (not an amp issue, since Ive tried the speakers with other amps as well)... have a Kingrex preamp, and am considering adding it to the mix.

I may go for a diy solution with a larger driver, 6.5 or 8 inch + a fast sub (TBI/ ACI/ part express titanic)

TP

al128 · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 Aug 2009, 02:05 am »

Quote from: oskar1 on 9 Jul 2009, 09:40 am

Hello "Virtuers"!

Many greetings from Austria Oskar

p.s.:Thanks to Michael Mardis! When I looked for the "Trends"-modifications on his site, I got aware of Virtue--and ordered the TWO on the same day.

seawas, oskar! greets nach .at

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 Aug 2009, 02:14 am »

Are these amps okay with a 4 ohm load? Just bought a used V-1.

dvenardos · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Aug 2009, 03:44 am »

Yes, they are stable to 2 ohms.

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 17 Aug 2009, 02:14 am

Are these amps okay with a 4 ohm load? Just bought a used V-1.