[jhm731]

Has anyone heard the Amarra Model Four or Three?

[cryoparts]

Yes, the ULN-8 and Sonic Model 4 seem to be within $500 or less when you factor out Amarra.  I'm not so sure of the major innerds differences; I was told they are minor.  My $.02.

Separate Amarra question: does anyone notice a slight upper bass or lower midrange hump (some would say "bloom') in the Amarra sound....all of the other clear benefits (top end, blackness, etc.) notwithstanding?   I'm hearing it as I demo the new Ayre QB-9 DAC with it's MP (minimum phase) filter, and maybe the combo of the two are causing a little bloating there.  Not bad, but noticeable enough for me.

Ideally, you'd want to try it with a dac you're familiar with. I haven't noticed what you're describing in the lower mids.

Me either, FWIW.

Peace,

Lee

[gman]

Has anyone heard the Amarra Model Four or Three?

I am using the Model 305, which is the Sonic Studio equivalent of the Model 4, plus eight transformerless microphone preamplifiers with phantom power.

It sounds very good, but my goal is to use my own DAC to compare a CD and/or a DVD-Audio to Amarra. I am in the process of setting that up at the moment.

Gary

[Double Ugly]

DU,

As was alluded to above, the MH and SS hardware is not identical. Also, the software that is included with MH gear, being pro grade, only allows for exclusive file playback which, IMO, is a PITA for us enthusiasts who enjoy having our entire libraries available at our fingertips with playlists, etc.

That said, I've read some great reviews of the MH gear.

EDIT: The comparable MH dac, the ULN-8, is not half the price of the SS Model 4. Adding software to the dac brings it to within $500 of the Amarra Model 4 combo.

I have read the referenced posts and researched the prices of the MH's equipment, thus my question.  I've yet to find a way MD's post can be remotely accurate, but I was and am willing to give him the opportunity to back up his rather causticly-made claim.

If he does, great; a valid low-cost alternative.  If he doesn't, I'll know something about him I didn't before.

It's a no-lose proposition, my friend. 

[Crimson]

DU,

So, have you tried the demo?

[Double Ugly]

DU,

So, have you tried the demo?

Nope... just trying to get ahead of the curve. 

Actually, my home remains in a state of organizational disrepair stemming from the move, a problem which was compounded recently when my mother decided to move in with us.  Fact is, my system is still in boxes.

Nevertheless, if Amarra will doing anything about the boxes, clutter and "stuff" in my house, I'll buy 3 tonight!   

[low.pfile]

Guys,

How long did it take Sonic Studio to reply to your request for the Amarra demo? I filled out the request form this morning.  I have my system back together now and I'm ready.

ed

[Crimson]

Guys,

How long did it take Sonic Studio to reply to your request for the Amarra demo? I filled out the request form this morning.  I have my system back together now and I'm ready.

ed

Ed, I got my demo link in about 2 days. You can also try Vincent or John at VRS.

[Moon Doggy]

If he does, great; a valid low-cost alternative.  If he doesn't, I'll know something about him I didn't before.

It's a no-lose proposition, my friend. 

You really expect me to help you save money on gear under the threat that if I don't I'll be judged a bad person. If thats your idea of a win-win situation thats rather sad. Help yourself and think what you will. Its your problem.

To others more sincerely interested:
BTW. My OP: "Do you think Sonic will be unhappy if audiophiles spurn their gear to find the same performance in Metric Halo's pro audio equipment (with the music player software included) at half the price?" The post was formed as a question not as a statement. Designed to stimulate investigation into the price setting of rebadged gear and the value in the pricing of high end music playing software. As suggested to me by posts from respected users of MH in the music recording biz regarding their belief in the quality of the MH package vs. the Sonic package. But since I take all posts with a grain of salt even by the most respected individuals in the field I posed their speculations about the 2 sets of gear in the form of a question to explore not as an absolute statement.

[Double Ugly]

You really expect me to help you save money on gear under the threat that if I don't I'll be judged a bad person. If thats your idea of a win-win situation thats rather sad. Help yourself and think what you will. Its your problem.

I expected nothing from you; I knew nothing about you, and consequently had no baseline from which to predict a response.

Judging from the accusatory, judgmental & confrontational tone of your posts, I submit it isn't I with the problem.

ed:
BTW. My OP: "Do you think Sonic will be unhappy if audiophiles spurn their gear to find the same performance in Metric Halo's pro audio equipment (with the music player software included) at half the price?" The post was formed as a question not as a statement. Designed to stimulate investigation into the price setting of rebadged gear and the value in the pricing of high end music playing software.

It was an assertion posed as a question.  To say otherwise is intellectually dishonest at best. 

No worries, Crimson, I'm finished "conversing" with MD here and elsewhere.  If I may, I recommend you consider sending this and all related posts to where they really belong so "sincerely interested" parties can continue legitimate, civil discussion.

[low.pfile]

...back to the Music Player.

It was immediately apparent that Amarra makes the audio sound different.

What I listened to (from my long term demo/test playlist-16/44 AIFFs):

Both simple and moderately complex acoustic music:
Amandrai - Ry Cooder & Ali Farka Toure
Butterfly Mornings - Hope Sandoval
Detlef Schrempf - Band of Horses
Burn One Down - Ben Harper
Nightingale - Norah Jones

And complex layered Electronic music with lots of synth and bass
Turn On - Fischerspooner
Youngkiss - Unai

What I heard in my system:
- A slight increase in the amount of body without any stridency in the highs and no loss in bass.
  Therefore a tad warmer.
- Soundstage moved forward maybe 8-12 inches.
- Detail/separation seemed slightly smudged (noticeable on percussion)
- Noisefloor is identical
- Output level is identical as confirmed by my Checkmate sound meter.
  * Amarra EQ was OFF

It is a Harmonics Engine? I could describe it as a light midrange bloat. A pleasant one. Felt like switching between two different DACs. While Amarra definitely sounds different than standard iTunes, I can't say that it is better. I will try the dither option next time around.

I wish the audio dropout was at about 1 minute+ instead of 30-35 seconds, but it is workable. It's nice that they provide a demo. There is also a 30 day full trial with dongle for demoing without the audio dropouts. That is $50 (credited to full purchase).

I used a Wavelength Brick v2 DAC with Morter PS. The Mac used was a G5 2.3 Dual PPC with 4.5GB RAM and external FW drives on OSX 10.4. The rest of the system in link for 2 channel below.

Cheers,
Ed

[Crimson]

I could describe it as a light midrange bloat.

Hmmm............you're the second poster to mention that in this thread. Curious. WRT detail and separation, I noticed an improvement when using the Brick v2. I did, however, notice an increase in warmth when using the RME FF400 which, with my speakers, is a welcome improvement. I haven't played with the dither settings yet, but from what I remember from a Camelot Morganna I used to have (which dithered to 20 bit), it adds to the warmth.

[low.pfile]

I could describe it as a light midrange bloat.

Hmmm............you're the second poster to mention that in this thread. Curious. ....

It could be a matter of perspective. Maybe it is not bloat but more that the baseline of the system prior to Amarra has somewhat light in the midrange. So relatively it could seem like bloat.

RE: Detail: The micro details on the congas on Ben Harper's Burn One Down, to me, were less defined when Amarra was invoked. Just seemed more 3D, realistic without Amarra.

I listened some more and overall I am liking what I am hearing. I might have to go for the 30 day trial to remove the audio dropouts....just when I am listening to an instrument it goes silent. I does sound close to analog. But the cost makes it not an automatic purchase--a vacation abroad has higher priority for me than an addition to the system at this point.

cheers, ed

[Crimson]

But the cost makes it not an automatic purchase--a vacation abroad has higher priority for me than an addition to the system at this point.

I hear ya! I'm currently putzing around in the Himalayan and Karakorum ranges of central Asia.

[Double Ugly]

Separate Amarra question: does anyone notice a slight upper bass or lower midrange hump (some would say "bloom') in the Amarra sound....all of the other clear benefits (top end, blackness, etc.) notwithstanding?   I'm hearing it as I demo the new Ayre QB-9 DAC with it's MP (minimum phase) filter, and maybe the combo of the two are causing a little bloating there.  Not bad, but noticeable enough for me.

Anything to add, Ted?  Given the similarities of our systems, I'm keenly interested in your findings with other DACs, etc. which which you've tried Amarra.

Danke.

It could be a matter of perspective. Maybe it is not bloat but more that the baseline of the system prior to Amarra has somewhat light in the midrange. So relatively it could seem like bloat.

 
Precisely.  Doesn't make it bad, just different.

I hear ya! I'm currently putzing around in the Himalayan and Karakorum ranges of central Asia.

Nice. 

[rydenfan]

Crimson, Ted actually had a midbass bump not a midrange bloat but I believe that is gone now. The DAC he is demoing has a bit more burn-in time which I believe has settled that down.

Guys, I would STRONGLY urge you to get on the phone to Sonic Studios. I have had a few conversations with them about a lower priced Amarra product. They have a lot of plans for the current product, including a high rez vinyl ripping program and part of that is what plays into the $1500 price tag. I discussed with them a simple package that is simply their software and the auto-sample rate adjusting. I have no need for the EQ, dithering, vinyl stuff, or whatever else they are going to add. This package could be available to us at sub $500 prices  They have stated there is a lot of interest in this but they more they hear from us the more likely they are to do it  To me, and I am sure a lot of others, at that price point Amarra is a no-brainer.

[Crimson]

Guys, I would STRONGLY urge you to get on the phone to Sonic Studios. I have had a few conversations with them about a lower priced Amarra product. They have a lot of plans for the current product, including a high rez vinyl ripping program and part of that is what plays into the $1500 price tag. I discussed with them a simple package that is simply their software and the auto-sample rate adjusting. I have no need for the EQ, dithering, vinyl stuff, or whatever else they are going to add. This package could be available to us at sub $500 prices  They have stated there is a lot of interest in this but they more they hear from us the more likely they are to do it  To me, and I am sure a lot of others, at that price point Amarra is a no-brainer.

That's great news! I've also heard of some other features for the higher priced version.

(BTW, being an early adopter, I didn't pay the $1500  ).

[TomS]

Yeah, maybe bury them in emails saying "yes, do this" ...

[mercman]

A high quality ripper for iTunes would be very nice.

[Crimson]

A high quality ripper for iTunes would be very nice.

You don't say ..............