Marantz 6100: Let the clay begin!

orthobiz · « **on:** 26 May 2009, 02:32 am »

Started working on my daughter's TT. Before I adjust the overhang, etc. I need to get rid of some cabinet resonances:
Here's the TT:

Platter and belt removed:

Counterweight and anti-skate removed:

Getting ready to remove the bottom board. The only thing more thrilling than ignoring this sign is ripping tags off furniture cushions!

Removing the corner braces allows the bottom board removal:

This sucker sure is hollow bodied:

More bottom:

Tools of the trade (boy, this was fun, even the kids participated)

4.5 pounds later. The bottom left is the tonearm board. Just didn't feel comfortable slathering clay on it...

More:

Made sure to keep it away from the motor:

Will post more after setup.
Here's a quick question: I have a Grado Green and Shure M97xe. The Green is on the table right now. Which one should I use?

Paul

Listens2tubes · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 May 2009, 12:03 pm »

SWEET!

Get ready to be surprised by the improvement in the sound. I clayed a cheap Technics and am very taken with the results. For the cartridge it would be interesting to try both and report your observations.

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 May 2009, 12:39 pm »

Nice clay job, Paul!

Don't hesitate to put some clay on the sides of the wood cabinet, too!

Maybe you can also fool around with an isolation stand to put the table on.

Wayner

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 May 2009, 02:45 pm »

Niiiiiice - ya' sick bastard

John

kenreau · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 May 2009, 04:11 am »

Paul - nice work. I'm working on sim. project for my son. I am amazed at how similar the table is to my Pioneer PL-117D. I see a very similar chassis, moving internal parts, ps, etc. Mine needs a belt, headshell and cartridge (garage sale give away). I took it just to tinker with and learn about them.

Are you planning to put any clay on(under) the platter?

Now that I kind of have a sense of its worth and what it needs to be operational (+/-$80), I was thinking I might just strip it down and try to make a record cleaning machine with it. I'll do a search to look for DIY project RCMs or start another thread.

orthobiz · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 May 2009, 12:56 am »

Thanks for the comments everybody.

I have no plans to put clay on the platter. Although it would increase mass, I think it would be touchy regarding overall balance.

Right now I have issues aligning the cartridge and setting the overhang. Maybe I'll get around to posting more pics and asking advice.

Paul

Wayner · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 May 2009, 12:28 pm »

DO NOT PUT PLASTICLAY ON THE PLATTER!!!!

I speak from experience.

really, it will put the platter out of balance and give you lots of wow.

Wayner

kenreau · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 May 2009, 03:53 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 30 May 2009, 12:28 pm

DO NOT PUT PLASTICLAY ON THE PLATTER!!!!

I speak from experience.

really, it will put the platter out of balance and give you lots of wow.

Wayner

Wayner - is there any treatment recommended to deaden the platter. These ring like a crash cymbal. Just get a good aftermarket mat? What do you use?

Thx
Ken

WGH · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 May 2009, 04:24 pm »

Quote from: kenreau on 30 May 2009, 03:53 pm

is there any treatment recommended to deaden the platter.

Ken - I have used Cascade VB-2 Damping Sheet from Parts Express.

Wayner · « **Reply #9 on:** 30 May 2009, 09:23 pm »

I got my own mat that I designed that I use. I have been thinking about your situation tho. My Empire has an outer ring that can "ring" when I thump it, when it's off the main platter. However, with it installed and the mat on top, the ringing seems to stop.

My one goofy idea was to run a band of black electrical tape around the outside of the ring. just a revolution or 2. That may help. In fact, I'm going to try that right now.

Wayner

Miney · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 May 2009, 09:49 pm »

I sprayed mine with rubberized undercoat from the auto parts store. Stunk up the garage, but no more ringing... I think John recommended it to me?

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 May 2009, 12:40 am »

Quote from: Miney on 30 May 2009, 09:49 pm

I sprayed mine with rubberized undercoat from the auto parts store. Stunk up the garage, but no more ringing... I think John recommended it to me?

Yeah - whatever is cheap at the auto parts store. It's all the same stuff - rubber spray compound.

I bought Dupli-Color UC103...it's fast drying (the Cascade and others take 24+ hours to dry), but any will do. Cascade is just a specialty brand to the autosound industry - and, thus, typically more expensive than the stuff at the auto parts stores.

NAPA, PepBoys, Kragen, O'Reilly's, AutoBarn (all in the US...I'm sure you Canuks and others have similar sources where you are)....they are friends to vinylphools

John

kenreau · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 May 2009, 06:30 pm »

Quote from: Miney on 30 May 2009, 09:49 pm

I sprayed mine with rubberized undercoat from the auto parts store. Stunk up the garage, but no more ringing... I think John recommended it to me?

I was thinking the same thing. I treated my Toyota SUV with the mats and spray a while back. To keep the platter balanced (as much as possible), I was trying to think of a way to suspend it and keep it spinning while applying the spray undercoating. Hmmm...

orthobiz · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 May 2009, 08:16 pm »

Is it a given that if the mat rings when struck that it will make the TT sound worse? If a mat on top of the platter acts as a buffer, then maybe it doesn't matter.

Heck, the outer platter on my Linn feels like something the oiled guy would bang at the beginning of the Arthur Rank movies. Wayner may try the black tape but I'm not gonna clobbering my platter.

Any pics of sprayed underplatters out there?

Paul

If you're too young to remember, click on this link for the original gong man:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uie4YqrhNHQ

Wayner · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 May 2009, 08:42 pm »

First, my good man, I would like to find out if it is a problem. That is why I'm going to try the "reversable" trick. Your's isn't reversable and I've been there before. I can finger flick the Empire right now and the outer ring doesn't "ring" so why fix something that isn't broken. I haven't tried the tape trick yet tho. Been lazy this weekend.

Wayner

orthobiz · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 May 2009, 10:55 pm »

Glad I got your attention, Wayner, because I'd like to share my dilemma on cartridge setup. I previously posted pics of the Grado Green as set up by my stereo store when I bought it: It looked super crooked and it was hanging off the end of the tonearm. In fact, I remember the store guy said it was as far out as it could go. Like he wished it went out further!

Then I downloaded the manual off vinylengine. If I take the 45 rpm adapter that came with the table and perfectly point the big arrow to the rear of the turntable, and crank the arm over the adapter, the needle should sit in the middle of a "+" sign when the overhang is correct. (Why didn't they just spec an overhang based on a measurement to the back of the headshell, I'll never know)

The needle is hovering over the "+" in failing light, it is the proper length...

So when I then place the stylus over the HiFi News test record "universal" protractor I get this: screws much further back (nuts on top because there's no room for them next to the cartridge underneath!)

And on the HFN:

What gives? I need help!!!! Anybody?

Paul

Wayner · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Jun 2009, 11:29 am »

First, in your top photo, the cartridge is sitting crooked on the headshell. Make the front of the cartridge parallel to the front of the headshell, the screws should be even in the slots. Then make sure the stylus still hits the + sign (always keeping the front of the cartridge parallel with the front of the headshell.

Next, there is no such thing as a "universal protractor" as allmost all manufacturers make their stuff to different specifications. Since all of these "variables" change the null point locations, the concept of a universal protractor gets thrown out the window. Anyone that wishes to challenge me on this, including the folks at HIFI News will be in for a war. Also, lets see a post of the whole "universal protractor". Id like to see what the rest of this thing looks like.

Wayner

Dan Kolton · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Jun 2009, 03:49 pm »

Lots of info and dowloadable protractors on www.vinylengine .com.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Jun 2009, 04:26 pm »

Paul/orthobiz,

Does Marantz provide a little hashmark next to your platter (burned into the plastic top) to set overhang? A lot of the mass-market Japanese models did back then...and you just line your stylus point as close to this mark as possible to get the alignment thing right.

All the JVC's did, and I've seen them on a good many Japanese decks that did not have fake rosewood or walnut tops.

I suppose you can only see these hash-marks (actually they are small ellipticals or cicles where you line your stylus point).

For sure if you got one, that's about the easiest way to get your alignment right (tho it doesn't help with azimuth, aka, yaw)

Thx, John

Wayner · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jun 2009, 06:59 pm »

The angle of the Marantz headshell in relation to the S shaped arm already has the offset angle built in, as long as you keep the front surface of the cartridge parallel to the front surface of the headshell. The next trick is to set your plastic 45RPM adapter on the spindle as you have done and get the stylus to fit the +. That will set the table for proper overhang for MARANTZ's particular design. I dout you have azimuth adjustment.

Wayner