[kenreau]

Looking for a few strong recommendations for vintage receivers with quality phono sections.  My son is getting in to vinyl (14 yr old) and we have a Kenwood KD dd tt with a grado black cartridge for starters. 

I've combed through a number of posts and see Marantz, Sansui and Pioneer turn up frequently.  I'm looking for something in the $100 range if stock oem or maybe $200~$250 range restored and tuned up.

I found a Marantz 2238B for $120 in my 'hood, but it has two lights burned out.  I did a few google searches and a number of classicaudio posts came up.  If this is fine, that works.

Are there any particular models that are known to have superior (or adjustable MM/MC) phono sections with great sound?

The radio/tuner performance does not need to be stellar as we live in line of site of radio towers a few miles away.

Thanks
Ken

[Wayner]

The Marantz 2238B has 38 watts per channel (RMS) and with a pair of efficient speakers will be more then enough power for the lad. For $120, that is a good-buy. I have a 2220B hooked up to a pair of Paradigm Atoms and it's a good little system. Most Marantz receivers had good FM tuners and quiet phono sections.

Wayner

[konut]

http://www.soundofthewood.com/preamptuners.html

[doug s.]

i have always liked wintage pioneer, hk and sansui receivers.  that advent receiver looks sweet, but in refurb'd condition like that, it's a bit over budget.  they can be found in decent condition in your price range, tho.  another killer receiver is any wintage tandberg, but these really should be gotten after having been serviced, & then they can be spendy as well...

and, there's also the marantz 18 - a piece i am fond of cuz it has the best tuna inside that marantz ever made - the model 20.     you might be able to find one in decent shape at the top of your budget...  while i have never used mine as a receiver, it is highly regarded as such...

doug s.

[kenreau]

Thanks to all for the great feedback and suggestions. 

Sounds like it is a bit of a crap shoot, getting an oem/stock vintage unit versus a refurbished unit.

Finding a lot of good info on classicaudio.com as well.

Thx
Ken

[Niteshade]

Rotel, SAE & NAD made some nice stuff too.

[JimJ]

Maybe an integrated amp and a cheaper separate tuner?

I had a NAD 3020 when I was in college a few years ago, supposedly had a great MM phono stage although I never used it. Paired with a Sansui or Kenwood outboard tuner, could be a good combo...

[doug s.]

Maybe an integrated amp and a cheaper separate tuner?

I had a NAD 3020 when I was in college a few years ago, supposedly had a great MM phono stage although I never used it. Paired with a Sansui or Kenwood outboard tuner, could be a good combo...

as a confessed tuna whore, i can state unequivocally that this is a decent idea.     many killer tunas out there for <$100.  forget kenwoods, tho - you will have to spend a lot more for a decent sounding kenwood, or get a cheap one & spend $300 (unless you can diy) to get it hot-rodded. 

doug s.

[Wayner]

I had a Kenwood KR-6700 receiver that had a killer FM tuner. It also had provisions for 2 turntables. 80 watts per channel if I remember right.

Wayner

[doug s.]

I had a Kenwood KR-6700 receiver that had a killer FM tuner. It also had provisions for 2 turntables. 80 watts per channel if I remember right.

Wayner

i have owned 4 kenwood tunas - kt5500, kt9900, l-07tll and kt7550.  the kt9900 (same as kt8300, but w/bronze faceplate), typically sells for ~$300, and i would rank its sonics in the bottom five of the ~100 tunas i have owned over the years.  the cheaper kt5500 also fits right in here.  the kt7550 (bronze-faced kt7500) was modded and sounded superb.  as did the modded l-07tll.  the kt7500 in stock form is well known in the tuna world to sound mediocre stock, yet when modded, it is stellar.  the l-07tll is supposed to sound nice even stock, but i cannot personally werify this, and they typically sell for more than $300, sometimes a lot more.

wayner, while i haven't heard wintage kenwood receivers, i suspect the tunas in 'em weren't better than something like a kt7500 or kt8300.  i would suspect that if you actually listened to a kr6700 today, compared to a really nice sounding tuna (or even the tuna in a pioneer/sansui/hk/tandberg receiver), you may change your opinion a bit.  the wintage kenwood tuna's, while sensitive, and with good timbre, typically have flat 2-d soundstaging unless modded.  (the more recent, cheap-looking plastic digital kenwood tunas, on the other hand, are known to sound supurb, go figure.)

other receivers that i didn't mention prewiously, that have well-regarded tuna sections, as well as decent amps/preamps, include mitsubishi, philips and yamaha.  in fact, there is such a huge wariety out there, it wouldn't be a bad idea to actually look at appearance and ergonomics, and include these in deciding upon a wintage receiver.  and as always...

ymmv,

doug s.

ps - another nice feature in some wintage receivers that might play a role in ones' choice, especially if future flexibility is concerned, is having preamp output/main input capability...

[kenreau]

Maybe an integrated amp and a cheaper separate tuner?

I had a NAD 3020 when I was in college a few years ago, supposedly had a great MM phono stage although I never used it. Paired with a Sansui or Kenwood outboard tuner, could be a good combo...

I'm thinking the same thing.  My primary interests are great general sound quality and a great phono preamp section. 

Imho, 98% of modern FM radio is drek.  At least where I live in Portland, Orygun.  We live only a few miles from the radio towers and reception is not a problem, in fact too much signal can be a bigger issue.  In addition, a lot of the stations are going HD broadcast and/or internet access(low res).  I have an Integra HT Processor/Preamp that picks up the HD radio stations and they are substantially superior sounding.  Maybe a HD tuner in the future if needed.

The NAD and a Sansui AU 717 sure look appealing.  Just from build quality appearances and a little searching, my notion is the Sanui AU would substantially surpass the NAD.  Anyone know for sure?

Thanks
Ken

[TheChairGuy]

Dual mono is a hugely beneficial experience for enjoying vinyl (as long as RIAA equalization is accurate and channels are closely matched)

That said, you could probably pick up a vintage Harman-Kardon Twin-Powered receiver from the 70's for cheap. No doubt the caps could use refurbishing after 30 years -- but you should get some quality vinyl from it still.

The 330 model was not twin powered...but the 430/530/630/730 (I'm not sure if there was an 830 ) each had two power supplies for true dual mono (each one had higher power than the next)

The range-topping 930 even had preamp outs so that you could use as standalone preamp/tuner if the time comes to add a 'better' amp 

The old Advent 300 is a nice receiver....single power supply, but the phono section was done by Thomlinson Holman (he of THX cinema fame).  It's feeble at 15 watts tho. Holman designed the much vaunted phono stages of the early NAD models, too.

I got good vinyl sounds from my old Onkyo TX-35 and it had a nice, sensitive tuner, too.  They go for dirt on ebay, etc.

Before the early 80's, a receiver had to have reasonably good phono section...it was the ONLY high quality format in town (aside from reel to reel).  Once the DAD (nee, CD) was introduced, phono stage quality suffered at mass price points.

Ciao, John

[jimdgoulding]

There are some guys on Audio Karma that replenish and refinish old receivers and show photos.  There was a Luxman 6 months ago that looked beautiful.  My first amp (receiver) was a Yamaha CR-1000.  Beautiful physical thing.  Wish I still had it.

[boead]

I?ve owed some vintage gear; Sansui AU9900, HK, Marantz ( all early 70;s), Luxman, Kyocera and some other less desirables.

The Sansui and Marantz were soft and mushy, tube like for solid state but lacked much detail. Phono sections were not great.

However the biggest surprise is the Kyocera Amp/Tuner (a receiver at 65wpc) made in the early 80?s. Its absolutely superb! I?ve compared it to lots of gear, always found it much better then NAD, Adcom, Yamaha and so on? MUCH BETTER! The only thing I?ve found that equals it are McIntosh gear and I prefer the Kyocera.

Truly a lost and unknown treasure. Look for the R-661 or R-851. The 8xx has both MM and MC while the 6xx have just MC if I remember. I?ve owned mine for over 20 years, I won?t sell it! Use it constantly and its rock solid ? gold and platinum pots, never been cleaned and are quite after all these years. I installed a powercord socket which improved control. Tunner is excellent and phono section equally as good. The 8xx series also has pre-out.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2517824

[Wayner]

Ken,

I have an Onkyo T-4555 HD FM tuner. It is very excellent and can be had for under $400. It can be taken out of HD mode manually.

Wayner

[doug s.]

Maybe an integrated amp and a cheaper separate tuner?

I had a NAD 3020 when I was in college a few years ago, supposedly had a great MM phono stage although I never used it. Paired with a Sansui or Kenwood outboard tuner, could be a good combo...

I'm thinking the same thing.  My primary interests are great general sound quality and a great phono preamp section. 

Imho, 98% of modern FM radio is drek.  At least where I live in Portland, Orygun.  We live only a few miles from the radio towers and reception is not a problem, in fact too much signal can be a bigger issue.  In addition, a lot of the stations are going HD broadcast and/or internet access(low res).  I have an Integra HT Processor/Preamp that picks up the HD radio stations and they are substantially superior sounding.  Maybe a HD tuner in the future if needed.

The NAD and a Sansui AU 717 sure look appealing.  Just from build quality appearances and a little searching, my notion is the Sanui AU would substantially surpass the NAD.  Anyone know for sure?

Thanks
Ken

re: nad and sansui integrated amps, i have tried both.  (and nad receiver as well.)  nad, to me seems smoother, sansui has more detail.  (this smoothness seems an nad hallmark characteristic - i now own a 4300 tuna that sounds great, and is wery smooth.)  ancillaries could play a role, but i think i would lean towards the sansui's.  i had an au717, which amazed me, for how good it was, and i have an au11000 that's on loan to the ex.  that amp is a beast.  (but a lot more $$$ as well.)  re: tuna, here's a few that are killer for little money, if you are a patient shopper: sansui tu517, nikko gamma 1, jvc fx1100bk, hitachi ft8000, sherwood s3300, scott 312d.  all you need is one decent station, (it will likely be non-commercial - you are right about the drek on commercial radio), that has a quality broadcast and plays music you like, and inwestment in a tuna is worth it.  i am fortunate to have four stations here that i like a lot.

re: hd tunas, from those who have tried, it seems the sony xdr f1-hd is your best bet.  it retailed for $99, now sometimes sells used for more, as it's been rumoured to be discontinued, but every so often, as few stragglers show up at online stores for $80-$100.  stock, it won't sound as good as those i have mentioned, especially if the station is broadcasting in hd, but it does sound quite decent.  i have found it to be a bit fatiguing after a while, (i do serious listening to fm), but if you use a tube buffer stage between it and your preamp, its sound is markedly improved, and i could live w/it as an only tuna, if i could somehow manage to sell the other 40 or so tunas i have.     and, its sensitivity is as good or better than any tuna i own or have owned, including typical "holy grail" tunas, like accuphase t109, sansui tu-x1, etc.  and, some freaks have taken to modding it, to eek out even more performance, and to force it into analog when it's tuned to an hd station, something it cannot do in stock form.  i yust bought a second f1hd, to be sent to a guy w/much better eyesight than me, to mod this li'l surface-mount-filled sucker; i don't wanna risk trashing one w/o having a spare, and i can also do a-b  when it gets done.

if you are seriously into listening to fm, and not yust for background music, the xdr-f1hd is a wiable choice, but only w/tube buffer inserted...  from everything i know and have heard about hd radio & hd tunas, i wouldn't spend a penny more than what i could get the xdr for, tho - this is supposed to be the best performing hd tuna out there, regardless of cost.  (yes, sell your sequerra hd tuna and get the xdr.)

doug s.

[doug s.]

I?ve owed some vintage gear; Sansui AU9900, HK, Marantz ( all early 70;s), Luxman, Kyocera and some other less desirables.

The Sansui and Marantz were soft and mushy, tube like for solid state but lacked much detail. Phono sections were not great.

However the biggest surprise is the Kyocera Amp/Tuner (a receiver at 65wpc) made in the early 80?s. Its absolutely superb! I've compared it to lots of gear, always found it much better then NAD, Adcom, Yamaha and so on? MUCH BETTER! The only thing I?ve found that equals it are McIntosh gear and I prefer the Kyocera.

Truly a lost and unknown treasure. Look for the R-661 or R-851. The 8xx has both MM and MC while the 6xx have just MC if I remember. I?ve owned mine for over 20 years, I won?t sell it! Use it constantly and its rock solid ? gold and platinum pots, never been cleaned and are quite after all these years. I installed a powercord socket which improved control. Tunner is excellent and phono section equally as good. The 8xx series also has pre-out.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2517824

i have never heard the kyocera's, but i have heard similar comments about their amp/pre sections; not so similar about the tunas.  the only marantz receiver i have heard is the model 18, it sounds nothing like you describe, and this is having two samples.  re: your sansui au9900, tube-like is the last thing i would attribute to this amp; i strongly suggest something was wrong w/yours.  these amps are extremely solid-state sounding - wery stout, detailed, almost clinical.  if you like solid state sound, a wintage sansui is your amp, imo.  me, i'd insert a tube buffer between its pre out and main in!   

ymmv,

doug s.

[cdorval1]

Ken,

There's a tech here in San Diego who's selling his personal Scott 344b from 1968.  It is rebuilt, aligned, with a very good tuner and phono section, from the classic (good) days of Scott.  Dylon is a very good audio technician, and the $120 price is a steal.  If I had a use for it, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat.  The Craigslist listing is here: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ele/1189496435.html

Good luck whatever you decide.

Craig

[kenreau]

I?ve owed some vintage gear; Sansui AU9900, HK, Marantz ( all early 70;s), Luxman, Kyocera and some other less desirables.

However the biggest surprise is the Kyocera Amp/Tuner (a receiver at 65wpc) made in the early 80?s. Its absolutely superb! I?ve compared it to lots of gear, always found it much better then NAD, Adcom, Yamaha and so on? MUCH BETTER! The only thing I?ve found that equals it are McIntosh gear and I prefer the Kyocera.

Truly a lost and unknown treasure. Look for the R-661 or R-851. The 8xx has both MM and MC while the 6xx have just MC if I remember. I?ve owned mine for over 20 years, I won?t sell it! Use it constantly and its rock solid ? gold and platinum pots, never been cleaned and are quite after all these years. I installed a powercord socket which improved control. Tunner is excellent and phono section equally as good. The 8xx series also has pre-out.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=2517824

Thanks for the ideas.  Funny you should mention Kyocera.  A new friend just informed me he has a R 661 in his garage he wants to sell.  I am going to look at it next week.  He used to work in an audio store back in the day and has a big collection of really nice vintage gear, including the big Carver Amazing ribbon speakers.  When I when for a visit, he played a german pressing of White Bird by It's a Beautiful Day that was amazing.  That started my vinyl quest about a month ago.

On a related note, I have been scouting the local Salvation Armys also and just last week I spotted a matching set of a Kyocera CDP and Cassette deck with walnut trim.  Early-mid 1980s.  I started to scoop them up but saw a price sticker of $39 on the CDP and $29 on the cassette deck.  Recalling how bad early digital was, and the cold slap of reality that I really don't need either piece, I exercised a rare spark of self-control and walked away.  Plus, I think the S.A. pricing I've noticed is no longer really cheap.

Thx,
Kenreau

[kenreau]

Ken,

There's a tech here in San Diego who's selling his personal Scott 344b from 1968.  It is rebuilt, aligned, with a very good tuner and phono section, from the classic (good) days of Scott.  Dylon is a very good audio technician, and the $120 price is a steal.  If I had a use for it, I'd snap it up in a heartbeat.  The Craigslist listing is here: http://sandiego.craigslist.org/csd/ele/1189496435.html

Good luck whatever you decide.

Craig

Thanks Craig!