[floresjc]

self delete

[floresjc]

Since its apparently a question of great interest...

This is in the Salk circle because of three reasons:

1. I'm purchasing Salk speakers and I'm familiar with this board, its posters, and its wide variety of topics discussed.
2. I don't think there's a circle for furniture, and since this board seems to be an audio topics board rather than Salk speakers only board, didn't think it would be a big deal.
3. I've seen people mention the brand on here, so I figured there was real life experience to put into a review of those products.

Sure, I can post on another board where I don't have a feel for the users, what they talk about or what not, but I put it where I'm familiar. It can be moved, deleted, whatever, I don't really care, I just thought people could chime in. If you want we can go back to discussing how 500W of Bryston power is better than 600W of AVA power, or what have you. But then someone else would mention I didn't say Salk or Songtowers, and we'd be doing this in another thread.

[BrianM]

I think flores' reasons for putting it here hold up perfectly well. I think some people imagine their 'finger in the dike' is required on such matters. Instead, it just led to about six posts even more off topic than the original.

[turkey]

Since its apparently a question of great interest...

This is in the Salk circle because of three reasons:

1. I'm purchasing Salk speakers and I'm familiar with this board, its posters, and its wide variety of topics discussed.
2. I don't think there's a circle for furniture, and since this board seems to be an audio topics board rather than Salk speakers only board, didn't think it would be a big deal.
3. I've seen people mention the brand on here, so I figured there was real life experience to put into a review of those products.

First off, that other thread about someone's experience with Timbernation would make me avoid him. I found it to be pretty persuasive.

Second, I do not feel that the Timbernation audio products come anywhere close to being a complement to the elegant and classy speakers that Jim Salk builds.

However, the Timbernation stuff does look like it's probably reasonably sturdy. If cheap is your operative word when choosing furniture, then maybe it's a good bet for you.

As for me, my father was a cabinetmaker, and I know what good cabinetry is. I wouldn't spend money on something like the Timbernation racks and stands. I want something that is pleasing to the eye, not something clumsy and blocky.

[Philistine]

I empathize with floresjc wanting to get feedback on a vendor, but find the rationale to put this thread in the Salk Circle to be a stretch.  At the same time there is not another Circle I see that would be more appropriate.

Whatever our opinions ultimately this is Jim's Circle, and he gets the final call on what is and isn't appropriate.

[zybar]

I empathize with floresjc wanting to get feedback on a vendor, but find the rationale to put this thread in the Salk Circle to be a stretch.  At the same time there is not another Circle I see that would be a more appropriate.

Whatever our opinions ultimately this is Jim's Circle, and he gets the final call on what is and isn't appropriate.

FWIW, I think the original post definitely makes sense to have here since floresjc is/or is about to become a Salk owner.

Phil, you are spot on in saying it is ultimately up to Jim whether it stays or goes.

Given Jim's style, I think it will stay, but we shall see.

George

[jsalk]

Still, why is this in the Salk circle???? Perhaps Jim could chime in?

From the looks of things, the original poster is putting an audio system together and was asking what experience others had with Timbernation and their products.  I have no problem with that.  I have no personal experience with this company as I obviously can and do build my own.  But the idea here is to share information about anything audio-related, so it is all fair game in that regard.

From time to time, you will see threads here that may not seem to be related to this particular circle.  I don't mind that in the least.  You will also notice that I don't post to many of those threads.  There is a reason for this.

When I read these threads, I often read posts expressing opinions that differ quite a bit from my personal philosophy and/or experience.  But that does not make me right or the poster wrong. I am always open to re-examining my personal beliefs and have learned much of what I know from the experiences of others.  At the same time, I have read posts from individuals with strongly held beliefs that don't seem to hold up to any sort of critical analysis.  But if they are happy with their beliefs, who am I to rain on their parade?

The world of audio is filled with solid, well-grounded theory and, at the same time, an abundance of pure snake oil.  Many audio-related issues are almost religious in nature...either you believe them strongly or you don't.  I tend to be more conservative and don't easily buy into hype.  If I can't measure it or hear it in a blind A/B test, I tend to dismiss it.  But I am also very hesitant to share my opinions publicly because there is no need for me to question other's strongly held beliefs.  I may not believe in Santa Claus, but I don't share my personal bias with those who do.

My background in the recording industry has obviously had a huge impact on my personal philosophies.  I see many theories, techniques, upgrades, gadgets and other sonic break-throughs that are the subject of rave reviews, but are not employed in even the highest end recording studios (where one would think they would be even more important than in an audio reproduction system).  So I am skeptical. I am convinced that the high-end audio industry benefits greatly from cognitive dissonance.  After spending thousands on the latest gizmo, the owner WILL hear a significant improvement in system performance.  His brain will simply not allow him to not hear a difference.  But in a blind A/B test, it is often unlikely that anyone else will hear any improvement at all.  In the end, it is all about what makes us happy.  

As for this thread, if some have positive experiences with Timbernation, that information may be of value to the original poster.  The same holds true for negative experiences.  We can then all draw our own conclusions.  And there is value to be had in that.

- Jim

[zybar]

Jim,

What you just wrote in your post is one of the major reasons why I consistently recommend your products. 

You not only produce great products...you really get it!!   

Thank you.

George

[tvad4]

moved

[floresjc]

Thanks Jim and zybar. I am indeed about to be a Salk owner (yay HT2-TL's and Songtowers!), and at the same time redoing my audio "infrastructure", ie amps, cables, and racks. Without previous "non Salk" related posts about amps and what not by the users of this forum, I'd still be sorting through the mess. I've found this board to be full of people with a lot more experience in trying out products than me, and it helps to have to pick between 2-3 quality vendors, than to sort out from 30-40 for myself. I don't post here to cheerlead any other vendor. As a result of the conversations I've had with Jim on the phone, the board, and from other users, the system I had picked out for myself 2 months ago is now completely different, every component thrown out and reselected with a better one for me.

[brj]

As for this thread, if some have positive experiences with Timbernation, that information may be of value to the original poster.  The same holds true for negative experiences.  We can then all draw our own conclusions.  And there is value to be had in that.

I agree with that completely - as it applies to all vendors.  Writing complete, balanced reviews covering the product itself, the purchasing experience and any required vendor followup serves the community as a whole.

[lonewolfny42]

Maybe it's time for.....

Salk Signature Sound Custom Audio Racks....

When Quality And Workmanship Counts.....

I'd bet they would look great !!!!

[zybar]

As for this thread, if some have positive experiences with Timbernation, that information may be of value to the original poster.  The same holds true for negative experiences.  We can then all draw our own conclusions.  And there is value to be had in that.

I agree with that completely - as it applies to all vendors.  Writing complete, balanced reviews covering the product itself, the purchasing experience and any required vendor followup serves the community as a whole.

Here is my personal experience plus what I saw today in a different thread:

Well, I purchased a few maple platforms and sandboxes from Chris years ago and the products and communication were very good.  In fact, the experience was good enough that I routinely recommended Chris to friends and other audiophiles on the internet.  I was a very satisfied customer and would buy from him again.

After seeing the responses below from Chris today in a different thread I will no longer do business with him, nor recommend him any longer.  I simply can't do business with somebody who treats his customer in such a manner.  It is of course up to each person to determine their own course of action, this is strictly mine.

George 


Here are the actual posts (with no editing) from Chris of Timbernation in response to a thread started by an unhappy customer:

hi everyone here.  just a few short words. nit picking and complaining does not flush with me. there is nothing wrong with the piece I made Tony. It is one of the nicest pieces i habe ever made. as with anything made out of real wood- maple- there is always a few small undistinguishing character flaws. this is wood not MDF or plywood. it always moves and changes with the atmosphere. the flaws shown in the pics are easily correctable- but this friend tony has his head down where his ass is and his ass where his head is.  he just needs a good woman to straighten the georgraphy out

i love all you auidofools
chris

Chris Futrick
Owner of Timbernation Wood Products
Maple and Cherry Edge Grain and Flat Grained Platforms, Amp Stands, Platform Boxes and Anything Special You want built.
Visit Timbernation!

and

trying to be nice is easy - fooling customers into thinking they are always right is how you make money,   not me      what is this all about anyway?  if you are really a good person you sometimes have to disagree  because if you don't that leads to lying of the soul  !!!!!!!!!    and i will not ever do that

may God smile on all of you

chris

Chris Futrick
Owner of Timbernation Wood Products
Maple and Cherry Edge Grain and Flat Grained Platforms, Amp Stands, Platform Boxes and Anything Special You want built.
Visit Timbernation!

[john1970]

As for this thread, if some have positive experiences with Timbernation, that information may be of value to the original poster.  The same holds true for negative experiences.  We can then all draw our own conclusions.  And there is value to be had in that.

I agree with that completely - as it applies to all vendors.  Writing complete, balanced reviews covering the product itself, the purchasing experience and any required vendor followup serves the community as a whole.

Here is my personal experience plus what I saw today in a different thread:

Well, I purchased a few maple platforms and sandboxes from Chris years ago and the products and communication were very good.  In fact, the experience was good enough that I routinely recommended Chris to friends and other audiophiles on the internet.  I was a very satisfied customer and would buy from him again.

After seeing the responses below from Chris today in a different thread I will no longer do business with him, nor recommend him any longer.  I simply can't do business with somebody who treats his customer in such a manner.  It is of course up to each person to determine their own course of action, this is strictly mine.

George 


Here are the actual posts (with no editing) from Chris of Timbernation in response to a thread started by an unhappy customer:

hi everyone here.  just a few short words. nit picking and complaining does not flush with me. there is nothing wrong with the piece I made Tony. It is one of the nicest pieces i habe ever made. as with anything made out of real wood- maple- there is always a few small undistinguishing character flaws. this is wood not MDF or plywood. it always moves and changes with the atmosphere. the flaws shown in the pics are easily correctable- but this friend tony has his head down where his ass is and his ass where his head is.  he just needs a good woman to straighten the georgraphy out

i love all you auidofools
chris

Chris Futrick
Owner of Timbernation Wood Products
Maple and Cherry Edge Grain and Flat Grained Platforms, Amp Stands, Platform Boxes and Anything Special You want built.
Visit Timbernation!

and

trying to be nice is easy - fooling customers into thinking they are always right is how you make money,   not me      what is this all about anyway?  if you are really a good person you sometimes have to disagree  because if you don't that leads to lying of the soul  !!!!!!!!!    and i will not ever do that

may God smile on all of you

chris

Chris Futrick
Owner of Timbernation Wood Products
Maple and Cherry Edge Grain and Flat Grained Platforms, Amp Stands, Platform Boxes and Anything Special You want built.
Visit Timbernation!

George,

I was shocked to read Chris's responses as well.  I won't say I won't every order from him again, but his responses gives me great pause.   I've order many pieces of furniture from him in the past and the quality has always been a very good value for the price.

[oneinthepipe]

Here is my personal experience plus what I saw today in a different thread:

Well, I purchased a few maple platforms and sandboxes from Chris years ago and the products and communication were very good.  In fact, the experience was good enough that I routinely recommended Chris to friends and other audiophiles on the internet.  I was a very satisfied customer and would buy from him again.

After seeing the responses below from Chris today in a different thread I will no longer do business with him, nor recommend him any longer.  I simply can't do business with somebody who treats his customer in such a manner.  It is of course up to each person to determine their own course of action, this is strictly mine.

George 


Here are the actual posts (with no editing) from Chris of Timbernation in response to a thread started by an unhappy customer:

quotes removed to save space 

Maybe he is a crazy guy that builds good furniture, but I would prefer to purchase Salk Signature Sound custom audio racks and cabinets, should such furniture ever become available.

[zybar]

George,

I was shocked to read Chris's responses as well.  I won't say I won't every order from him again, but his responses gives me great pause.   I've order many pieces of furniture from him in the past and the quality has always been a very good value for the price.

I was shocked too John.

I was really hoping that things could get worked out between Tony and Chris and not have it get this ugly.

George

[john1970]

George,

I was shocked to read Chris's responses as well.  I won't say I won't every order from him again, but his responses gives me great pause.   I've order many pieces of furniture from him in the past and the quality has always been a very good value for the price.

I was shocked too John.

I was really hoping that things could get worked out between Tony and John and not have it get this ugly.

George

George,

I assume you mean Tony and Chris. 

Cheers,

John

[zybar]

George,

I was shocked to read Chris's responses as well.  I won't say I won't every order from him again, but his responses gives me great pause.   I've order many pieces of furniture from him in the past and the quality has always been a very good value for the price.

I was shocked too John.

I was really hoping that things could get worked out between Tony and John and not have it get this ugly.

George

George,

I assume you mean Tony and Chris. 

Cheers,

John

Sorry about that.   

I fixed my post.

George

[JoshK]

Actually I was a bit sympathetic to Chris, while understanding why Tony would be mad and thinking Chris wasn't very understanding.

Wood does expand and contract with humidity. If the humidity of Tony's home is different than Chris's shop the wood will contract or expand.  I've had this happen to wood I've laminated with seasonal differences.

I saw the pictures and part of it could be from this, part of it maybe not.  Still, I think that a good glue joint shouldn't expand, or atleast I don't think.  Maybe Jim Salk can chime in on this with his pro experience. 

I am not sure of what exchange happened between Chris and Tony, so although we've seen part of it publically, we still haven't heard the whole story.

[markC]

Expansion and contraction of natural wood is a given. Customer relations is earned.