[floresjc]

You guys have already got me looking at amps and I don't even have my new Salks yet. Jim says my Denon receiver will drive the HT2-TLs just fine, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it! Going into ignore-this-thread mode now before it's too late.

How much power does your Denon put out? I'm not exactly sure what an HT2-TL requires, but I would suspect one could get away with as low as 65W bare minimum.

[earthbound]

You guys have already got me looking at amps and I don't even have my new Salks yet. Jim says my Denon receiver will drive the HT2-TLs just fine, so that's my story and I'm sticking to it! Going into ignore-this-thread mode now before it's too late.

How much power does your Denon put out? I'm not exactly sure what an HT2-TL requires, but I would suspect one could get away with as low as 65W bare minimum.

I was going to ignore this thread but I guess I lied! Jim says that the HT2-TL has the same sensitivity as the ST, so huge HT3-type amps are not required. My amp is the Denon 3808CI which puts out 130 watts x 7 channels. For most music I usually just use 2 channels, and when I get the new HT2TL's I doubt that I will ever use more than 2 channels for music. So much for those surround SACDs I've been enjoying.

[Nuance]

Your receiver should be just fine.  Spend some time with the new speakers and the Denon.  If you aren't satisfied then start planning a separates route.  Jim's advice is sound, brother. 

[floresjc]

Earthbound -

When I started this whole journey, I thought I was going to buy a pair of HT3's and a 2 channel amp to match. Then I figured out that I need a new processor to decode DTS HD and Dolby Tru HD. And then I needed another 3 channels of amplification since I have to use my new processor instead of my reciever to decode signal. And then I chose HT2-TL's because overall I wouldn't need as much power. And so here I am, with speakers, a processor, and 2 AVA amps, and possibly a preamp. It just keeps going!

[PDR]

I had a Denon 3806 that I was happy with, My speaks are 97db and thought I didnt need mo power.

Bought a sunfire TGA-5400 (400@8ohms or 800@4ohms) and a Sunfire TGP-5.......

The differences in build/sound are night and day, absolutely the best purchase I ever made.

One of the drawbacks to the Sunfires were servicing/repair was quite costly at Sunfire.
But Bob Carver and Rita (a technician formerly of Sunfire) have opened a new repair center in Washington.
They will repair all Sunfire or Carver gear for $175, no matter what the problem is.
Sunfire gear has really come down in price since they authorized internet dealers.

Might be worth a look.

[earthbound]

Earthbound -

When I started this whole journey, I thought I was going to buy a pair of HT3's and a 2 channel amp to match. Then I figured out that I need a new processor to decode DTS HD and Dolby Tru HD. And then I needed another 3 channels of amplification since I have to use my new processor instead of my reciever to decode signal. And then I chose HT2-TL's because overall I wouldn't need as much power. And so here I am, with speakers, a processor, and 2 AVA amps, and possibly a preamp. It just keeps going!

I'm really glad that the HT2-TLs are easy to drive so I can use them with the gear I already have. That was one of the main factors I considered when looking for new speakers. Fortunately(??) I can't afford to do any more upgrading for awhile so I'm just going to have to relax and enjoy my new toys. 

[Nuance]

Fortunately(??) I can't afford to do any more upgrading for awhile so I'm just going to have to relax and enjoy my new toys. 

Now that sounds like a great idea. 

[boatschool02]

This is out of date, but still a valuable example of what kind of marketing hocus pocus is "permitted" with receivers, etc.

Notice that the ratings are based on 5 of 7 channels driven and some companies are much worse than others:

http://www.geocities.com/area51/hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

Explanation for the different ratings:

http://www.soundandsong.com/Issue004/004_PowerAmpRatings.html

This legal misrepresentation makes me livid, but everyone must choose for themselves.

[DMurphy]

This is out of date, but still a valuable example of what kind of marketing hocus pocus is "permitted" with receivers, etc.

Notice that the ratings are based on 5 of 7 channels driven and some companies are much worse than others:

http://www.geocities.com/area51/hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

Explanation for the different ratings:

http://www.soundandsong.com/Issue004/004_PowerAmpRatings.html

This legal misrepresentation makes me livid, but everyone must choose for themselves.

The FTC amplifier rating rule works reasonably well for 2-channel units.  But the testing procedure isn't well suited to HT amps with 5 and 7 channels.  It really doesn't make sense to bring down the rath of the FTC if a manufacturer doesn't rate its unit with all channels driven to full power for the amount of time needed to establish "continuous" output.  No one has shown that this is a realistic operating condition for consumer use in the home.  And most consumers wouldn't want companies to build in the expensive power supplies and heat sinks that would be needed to produce, say, 120 wats will all channels screaming.  Some would--like some of you on this board--but not your typical user.  There is probably an ideal way to rate HT amps that is a realistic load for home use, but I've been trying to find it for over 5 years and 3 Federal Register Notices, and we (the FTC) just hasn't been able to get people interested enough to comment.  So it looks like most mainline manufacturers will continue to provide primary ratings that are based on 2 channels running, and some higher end amps will state in their specs that they are running all channels simultaneously. 

[boatschool02]

Sir,

All good points.  Thank you for the frontline perspective.

I've moved from HT to 2-ch and I no longer have a dog in the multi-channel fight.  As a beginner in this hobby; however, I made many misinformed decisions at the hands of these ratings.

In my limted experience with Salk speakers (I own HT-3's) I find that they perform well beyond their price range and are worthy of the finest electronics.  Again, thank you.

Both the Song Towers and the HT-2TL's seem to be selling well and I just wanted to help inform any of the new Salk owners who might also fall victim to rating specifications.  In my estimation, people should (in their mind) double the price of the Salk speakers and then buy amplification and processing accordingly.  With speakers this transparent, the old saying "garbage in...garbage out" is more true than ever.

Just my $.02

Luke

[DMurphy]

And your point are valid as well.  This is just one of those things that fell through the cracks and probably will stay there.  But I think there's enough info out there for dedicated nuts like us to sort out which amplifier will really stand up under pressure.

[earthbound]

. . . With speakers this transparent, the old saying "garbage in...garbage out" is more true than ever. . . .

I have wondered about how much garbage I will be introducing into the sound with my relatively low-end OPPO 981HD disc player and Denon receiver. Still, that can't possibly be worse than what I get from a bad CD. For example, I really like the music on U2's Joshua Tree (I have the original 1987-ish CD from BMG), but the sound quality varies from ok (after a beer or two) to screechy and horrible. The HT2-TLs may make this CD completely unlistenable. I also have a PS3 but I only use it for blu-ray discs because the fan is pretty noisy. Both are connected via HDMI to the Denon. Anyway, I hope I can delay the inevitable component upgrade quests until my budget recovers from the Salk purchase. For now maybe I should just try to find a remastered Joshua Tree.

[boatschool02]

No need to rush into spending more money...just know that when you do, the speakers will let you know where the money went.  I always say "stop spending when you can't hear a difference or the difference isn't worth the cost TO YOU."  It's all relative.

Before my last move, I downsized from W4S monos and the outstanding Modwright LS 36.5 to a Marantz PM 11-s1.  The Marantz was simply embarrased by the separates.  A few weeks later, I bought the HT-3's.  Even knowing that the Marantz couldn't properly handle the HT-3's, the HT-3's easily aquitted themselves against the Krell Resolution speakers which are very well reviewed speakers.

Speakers are the final and determining choke point.  You spent your money well.

[mchuckp]

. . . With speakers this transparent, the old saying "garbage in...garbage out" is more true than ever. . . .

I have wondered about how much garbage I will be introducing into the sound with my relatively low-end OPPO 981HD disc player and Denon receiver. Still, that can't possibly be worse than what I get from a bad CD. For example, I really like the music on U2's Joshua Tree (I have the original 1987-ish CD from BMG), but the sound quality varies from ok (after a beer or two) to screechy and horrible. The HT2-TLs may make this CD completely unlistenable. I also have a PS3 but I only use it for blu-ray discs because the fan is pretty noisy. Both are connected via HDMI to the Denon. Anyway, I hope I can delay the inevitable component upgrade quests until my budget recovers from the Salk purchase. For now maybe I should just try to find a remastered Joshua Tree.

Not sure if you've considered going vinyl, but Joshua Tree on LP is AMAZING!  One of my favs that I own.  Bullet the Blue Sky floored me on analog!  Can't wait to get me some Salks to take it and everything else I own to the next level.  Damn the anticipation!