[joeling39]

Hi,

It's been years since my last post. Lost my way a little. However, I'm about to embark on building a new house in the near future. I want to have a dedicated 2 channel audio room. At the moment, this is what I have figured :

1) Height = 3m , width = 4.83m , length = 7.77m (approximate golden ratio)
2) I want a double wall & a good sealing door
3) I am thinking of putting the electronics in another room adjacent to the main audio room

I  need some advice on :

1) room treatment
2) air conditioning placement. I live in the tropics where air conditioning is a necessary evil
3) other relevant things to look out for

My system at the moment :

1) Fanless PC
2) Apogee big ben with M-audio transit modded by Empirical Audio (although there is something wrong at the moment, getting an off-ramp)
3) AN Dac 1.1 modded with async reclocking, VSM high voltage regulator etc.
4) DIY Vacuum State FVP5 line stage
5) DIY Transcendent T8 OTL
6) DIY Diatone with added tweeter + sub (anyone can recommend me something better ? Been trying for years to improve on this but cannot)

The above configuration may change though. I have lost my DIY capability 

I like :

1) female vocal
2) soundstage
3) bass

Kindly advice thanks.

Regards,
Joe Ling

[jimdgoulding]

Joe-  Web search Houston Audio Society, click on members and type in the look up box- Travis Franklin.  Send him a message or an email.  You can say I referred you.  He built is own listening house and has an A/C that is dead silent. 

Also, Arthurs, a member here, has done this, too, and can probably offer some sound advice.

AC member Mgalusha has built a listening room from the ground up is his new home that looks fine as wine.

Best wishes.

[poseidonsvoice]

And....Earl Geddes' Premium Home Theatre is an excellent resource.

Anand.

[orthobiz]

Air conditioning: flexible ductwork. If you're gonna do first reflection on the ceiling, keep the vent outta there! Also, no vents in the corners in case you want to do floor-to-ceiling bass traps.

Think about the door entrance: keep out of corner if possible (I was unable to do so) so you will have four equal corners for four equal treatments.

Paul

[orthobiz]

Dedicated outlets with 12 gauge wiring, separate breakers for each circuit.

Paul

[JLM]

Bigger is better for A/V rooms, but proper ratios are even more important.  With larger rooms of the right proportions and speaker/listener locations the benefits of room treatments (or EQ) become far less significant. I've added six GIK 244 panels at front corner and front/side wall first reflection points, but the effect is minimal.

Insulation!  Use simple fiberglass batt insulation for walls.  Use an insulated exterior fiberglass door with weather seals (the fiberglass usually comes with a wood graining texture that takes paint or wood staining very well).  Float the ceiling if there is living space above and add insulation above.  (Floating the ceiling can be done in a variety of ways.)  The flexible ductwork orthobiz mentions should be lined to keep fiberglass out of the room (and your lungs). 

Wire the audio circuits to the top of your primary electrical panel and provide them with a common, but separate (from the rest of the house) ground.  Use 20 amp hospital grade wall receptacles (which can be bought cryogenically treated). 

Avoid:  Windows, using upstairs rooms (wind noise, noise from below), penetrating the ceiling with any lights if there is living space above (maintain isolation),

Other tips:  Get all new household appliances and have the electrician install a whole house surge protector.  Look for reliable power from a substation that is newer and doesn't have industrial users.  Try to locate on a concrete slab floor.  And remember that a real man cave will include a dead bolt that only you have the keys for.   

I did all the above (except the ceiling lights) and in the beginning it was spooky isolated (except for footfalls/washing machine/dryer above  ).  The biggest advantage is the flexibility to listen to what, when, and how loud you want.  The other major advantages are to be able to listen at lower spls and to sit in the ideal spot.  I can only hear the furnace/air conditioner after I've been in the room for awhile.  As the builder normally insulated interior walls anyway, the electrician worked from a fixed fee, and we have solid cherry doors elsewhere in the house, the total cost to tweak the room for audio was less than $100.

If you listen really loud, consider using 2x6 versus 2x4 wall framing (randomly varying the spacing from 8 - 16 inches), and use 5/8 inch drywall versus 1/2 inch.

[jimdgoulding]

Bigger is better for A/V rooms, but proper ratios are even more important.  With larger rooms of the right proportions and speaker/listener locations the benefits of room treatments (or EQ) become far less significant. I've added six GIK 244 panels at front corner and front/side wall first reflection points, but the effect is minimal.

Insulation!  Use simple fiberglass batt insulation for walls.  Use an insulated exterior fiberglass door with weather seals (the fiberglass usually comes with a wood graining texture that takes paint or wood staining very well).  Float the ceiling if there is living space above and add insulation above.  (Floating the ceiling can be done in a variety of ways.)  The flexible ductwork orthobiz mentions should be lined to keep fiberglass out of the room (and your lungs). 

Wire the audio circuits to the top of your primary electrical panel and provide them with a common, but separate (from the rest of the house) ground.  Use 20 amp hospital grade wall receptacles (which can be bought cryogenically treated). 

Avoid:  Windows, using upstairs rooms (wind noise, noise from below), penetrating the ceiling with any lights if there is living space above (maintain isolation),

Other tips:  Get all new household appliances and have the electrician install a whole house surge protector.  Look for reliable power from a substation that is newer and doesn't have industrial users.  Try to locate on a concrete slab floor.  And remember that a real man cave will include a dead bolt that only you have the keys for.   

I did all the above (except the ceiling lights) and in the beginning it was spooky isolated (except for footfalls/washing machine/dryer above  ).  The biggest advantage is the flexibility to listen to what, when, and how loud you want.  The other major advantages are to be able to listen at lower spls and to sit in the ideal spot.  I can only hear the furnace/air conditioner after I've been in the room for awhile.  As the builder normally insulated interior walls anyway, the electrician worked from a fixed fee, and we have solid cherry doors elsewhere in the house, the total cost to tweak the room for audio was less than $100.

If you listen really loud, consider using 2x6 versus 2x4 wall framing (randomly varying the spacing from 8 - 16 inches), and use 5/8 inch drywall versus 1/2 inch.

Fine post.  In regards to the walls, particularly.  Orthobiz, too.  I would follow this.  Amen.

[Christof]

When I framed the walls in my lofts I used this type of framing to help with sound. 



There is a common hallway which runs along side my personal loft which is framed this way with 2x6 plates and 2x4 studs...it cuts down on noise from the hall considerably.  It was well worth the added expense (minimal) and time to construct my walls this way.  I wove fiberglass insulation horizontally between the studs.  The framing threw the building inspectors for a loop and I had t do a few extra fire code things which were a PITA but overall I'm glad I framed my walls like this.  Someone here at AC  turned me on to this type of framing

[orthobiz]

Someone here at AC  turned me on to this type of framing

JLM came over and showed me: 2x4 studs staggered on 2x6


The near and left walls have double stud construction; the far and right walls are underground and weren't made this way.


Without my asking the builder figured out he should separate the outer door frame from the inside of the room.


I thought it was a nice touch for isolation at the door.


R13


The horizontal weave viewed from outside


And from inside. The wall on the left is woven. The wall on the right is against the outside wall of the house underground and is not double studded.


One more


And drywalled (holes are for sconces, no cans in the ceiling). In the back corner is the airconditioning return that interferes with floor-to-ceiling corner treatments. Do not do this!


Paul

[bpape]

All good suggestions. 

Larger rooms with thought out ratios will certainly help minimize frequency response issues - though it can't substitute for treatment when it comes to decay time control, SBIR, refelction control, etc.

For the ductwork, flex duct is the answer.  Also though, you want to box the flex in an MDF box and have at least 3 90 degree bends with at least 5' between them.  Also, you want a high flow, low velocity situation so you don't get wind rush.  Large air vents which allow a pressure drop after exiting the flex will help with this.

Watch any lighting in the room as well as outlets, switches, etc.  All of those are holes in the space that will allow sound in and out.  Boxing around again with MDF and just having a hole large enough for the romex to enter and then caulk will minimmize it 95%.

Stay away from any low voltage lighting or mechanical dimmers.  They're generally physically and electrically noisy.  If you want dimming capabilities, use something like a Lutron Grafik Eye or the Lutron Spacer system and stay with 110v fixtures.



Bryan

[brj]

Wire the audio circuits to the top of your primary electrical panel and provide them with a common, but separate (from the rest of the house) ground.

I'm not an electrician, but wouldn't the use of two separate grounds (that aren't bonded) in a home violate the U.S. National Electric Code?  (The "tropics" description likely indicates that the OP is posting from somewhere other than the US, but it may still be an issue.)

[JLM]

I don't even know enough about electrical stuff to get in trouble.  The idea was given to me by an electrician/audiophile.  I used it in my home and it passed mustard with a PITA electrical inspector. 

But seems to me that ground is ground and that the idea is similar to what was required in operating rooms (back in the days of flammable anesthesia).  In those days isolated grounding systems were installed in each operating room.  Don't know how that exactly relates, but two grounds that both go to earth from the same structure seems more "compatible" than isolated grounds.

[Speedskater]

Isolated grounds can be good in your audio system. BUT all the ground wires in your house must join at a common place (or before) in your main circuit breaker box.  All ground rods and maybe the main water pipe must also connect to this same common place.

[James Romeyn]

Isolated grounds can be good in your audio system. BUT all the ground wires in your house must join at a common place (or before) in your main circuit breaker box.  All ground rods and maybe the main water pipe must also connect to this same common place.

I am not an electrician.  If Code states all house grounds must join at a common point, can anyone explain why, in common language?  The only thing that comes to mind is that anyone working on the system would know that there is a sum total of one location to diagnose a ground fault.  Is that it?  Does a 100-story highrise have one common point?  Sorry for such a dumb question.

Earl Geddes/Duke LeJeune's advice on multiple subs is the single best audiophile info I've learned in doing this for forty+ years.  It is the only known method to achieve large room (commercial) bass in a small (any domestic) room; such difference affects overall performance more than any component or speaker swap once a moderate performance level is achieved (at your local theater concentrate on the bass performance ONLY then go home & compare; that is the difference being described).  Geddes/LeJeune method is also the single highest performance method to flatten bass modes.  Ignore at your peril.       

[JLM]

My audio epiphanies include transmission line speaker cabinet designs, single driver speaker designs, CDs (lack of vinyl/tape noise), and having an audio room.

[orthobiz]

My audio epiphanies include transmission line speaker cabinet designs, single driver speaker designs, CDs (lack of vinyl/tape noise), and having an audio room.

My CD player is collecting dust! Hiss and pops don't bother me.

Anyway, I restored the pictures in my prior reply #9. I had messed with my Flickr account and lost the pictures. Thanks everybody for not complaining about my long, long blank post!

Paul

[jeenie67]

........data to share.
     Ive' seen the staggered stud work before...it works. Double 5/8" fire rated sheetrock is another "sound" investment as it multiplies the inertness of the walls etc. . Another product to consider is sound insulation that does double duty. They manufacture home insulation that does the job of HAVAC and also is a sound insulator to keep noise out; reverse the process and insulate the sound in. It is a heavy batt material that comes in the standard sized rolls and batts. I've used it in condominiums before and it's on my list when I'm ready to build a home.
     Hey ! What happened to the pictures of your sound panels on the other thread go to? As you requested weeks ago. I just posted a pic of the DIY blocks I'm playing with. They work. Here is the prototype I finally found in my disc files. Just something for everyone to think about. Good luck on your project....looks nice!  Jeenie. 

[BPT]

Joe:
When you run the dedicated AC line(s), use either 12 gauge or 10 gauge (preferred). Have the electrician use 12/3 or 10/3 which has 4 wires, hot, neutral and 2 ground wires. Have him use both ground wires from the receptacle back to your panel. This will help lower your ground impedance back to earth which in turn will lower the noise floor of your audio system.
Chris H.

[Carlman]

I'm in the final phases of a new room.. some good advice here.  What I found was that I had to make some 'real world' compromises along the way.  There are very few trades-people in the world that know what you're doing, have ever seen it, or know why.  With that in mind, be prepared to provide specific plans (with good drawings) to your contractors.  You'll have to balance the principals and theories you get here with the absolutes presented to you during the project.

HVAC presented some special challenges... as did a motorized projector screen.  These all created holes in my 'sheetrock acquarium' and I wasn't sure how to deal with them.  My room is in a basement surrounded by concrete and earth.  The room upstairs wasn't an issue either.  So, deciding how important isolation is is something to consider.  BTW, I used an exterior door made out of MDF that matches the rest of the doors in our house.  So, when the door is closed, you'd never know it was something special behind it. Stealthy..

You can read about my whole project here.

Best of luck.  You are on a challenging but rewarding path.

-Carl

[ctviggen]

Isolated grounds can be good in your audio system. BUT all the ground wires in your house must join at a common place (or before) in your main circuit breaker box.  All ground rods and maybe the main water pipe must also connect to this same common place.

I am not an electrician.  If Code states all house grounds must join at a common point, can anyone explain why, in common language?  The only thing that comes to mind is that anyone working on the system would know that there is a sum total of one location to diagnose a ground fault.  Is that it?  Does a 100-story highrise have one common point?  Sorry for such a dumb question.
 

You'll get voltage differences and ground loops if you have two separate grounds.  Your point is also valid.  There may also be other reasons.