Budget DAC for my system, < 200$

cryoparts · « **Reply #20 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 04:52 pm »

Quote from: raymondbeautrix on 17 Apr 2009, 06:27 am

Rashiki: that's a neat idea, I didn't notice that one on their site. I don't see any listing on ebay for that, at least now.

Having the USB input only up to 16bit @ 48khz...does that affect the real-world soundquality for the listener at all? Or is it something slight and hardly discernible?

Only an issue if you want to listen to hi-rez files.

Lee

Rashiki · « **Reply #21 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 04:56 pm »

Quote from: raymondbeautrix on 17 Apr 2009, 06:27 am

Having the USB input only up to 16bit @ 48khz...does that affect the real-world soundquality for the listener at all? Or is it something slight and hardly discernible?

It would only make a difference if you're playing high-res content. Most music will come from CD so it will be limited to 16-bit @ 44.1kHz. I have a handful of files that are recorded at 24-bit/96kHz that I would like to play at full resolution, but I don't have a good solution for that.

But, for 99% of my music, the 16-bit/48kHz limit over USB is not an issue. And using this older style USB interface means that the DAC is recognized by built-in drivers on Windows, Mac and Linux, so it's easier to plug'n'play.

-Rob

rajacat · « **Reply #22 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 04:57 pm »

The Valab dac has caused quite a bit of discussion, a 63 page thread

, over on Head -Fi.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f7/valab-dac-first-impressions-378459/index13.html

Roy

cryoparts · « **Reply #23 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 04:58 pm »

Quote from: wilsynet on 17 Apr 2009, 08:43 am

VALAB DAC, sold on EBay, $200 including shipping. Has a bit of a cult following on Head-Fi.org right now. Steve Nugent says that replacing some caps and add a low jitter transport like his Pace Car and it's world class.

Yes. This little DAC is made by a company called Teradak and is quite good for the price. I've tried all the versions (Teradak wanted me to be the US distributor, I declined) and they are pretty good with a few tweaks. Get the newest version with the I/V resistor fix.

Replace the output coupling caps with something decent, the power supply reservoir caps with OSCON's or Panasonic FM's, the other electro's with OSCON's or FM's and be happy. Add one of Steve's devices and prepare to be surprised.

It is not the best thing I've ever heard, but for $200, it is mighty good.

Lee

Rashiki · « **Reply #24 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 05:03 pm »

Quote from: cryoparts on 17 Apr 2009, 04:50 pm

24/96 over USB is tough right now. The two most common ways: Manufacturer licenses the CEntrance code (Bel Canto, Empirical, many others), which is a great solution, but expensive, so probably won't see this in inexpensive products any time soon. Write their own code (Wavelength, Ayre uses Wavelength's code, some pro stuff).

There is another way, however, it is not released yet and I am under an NDA so I can't say a lot. Announcement will be made soon (before Can Jam). But, even this method may not filter down to the really inexpensive, entry level products.

FYI--the USB DAC you talk about above sound a lot better with a battery, try it soon.

Lee, thanks for the info about using battery power for the Super Pro. I may try that out this weekend.

The cheapest 24/96 interface I've found is the M-Audio Transit. I haven't really compared it to other DACs or USB to S/PDIF converters, but it does seem to work. The driver is kind of a pain to set up, though, and it doesn't work with Linux.

I'd like to find a good DAC in the $500 range that will also accept high-res USB input. I was hoping the Cambridge DAC Magic would, but its USB input is also limited to 16/48.

-Rob

cryoparts · « **Reply #25 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 05:06 pm »

Quote from: Rashiki on 17 Apr 2009, 05:03 pm

I'd like to find a good DAC in the $500 range that will also accept high-res USB input.

They are coming.

Peace,

Lee

Charles Calkins · « **Reply #26 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 05:10 pm »

Rob:

Audio Advisor has dropped the price of the PS audio DAC down to $695.

Cheers
Charlie

cryoparts · « **Reply #27 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 05:14 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 17 Apr 2009, 05:10 pm

Rob:

Audio Advisor has dropped the price of the PS audio DAC down to $695.

Cheers
Charlie

That's the new semi permanent sales price. Heck of a DAC for the dough. 16/48 USB input.

Disclaimer--Yes, I sell them.

Lee

whubbard · « **Reply #28 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 05:18 pm »

...Let's try to get back to Ray's Question:

$200 DAC!

-West

Rashiki · « **Reply #29 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 05:22 pm »

Quote from: Charles Calkins on 17 Apr 2009, 05:10 pm

Audio Advisor has dropped the price of the PS audio DAC down to $695.

Charlie, thanks for the tip, but the USB input doesn't handle high-res. It's just like the Cambridge DAC in that respect.
-Rob

tvyankee · « **Reply #30 on:** 17 Apr 2009, 05:47 pm »

hello

but this one can.

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/24192-USB-20-beer-budget-EMU-0404-mini-review

raymondbeautrix · « **Reply #31 on:** 18 Apr 2009, 02:19 am »

This idea of "high-res" audio is interesting, but I have no idea where I could obtain it. I always assumed FLAC or cd audio was about as good as it gets. Is there something I'm missing? I know if you're mixing your own music with something like Reason, you can put it above 16bit/48khz...and deal with massive file sizes. Otherwise, I have no idea where you'd get something like that.

So I guess I'll ask my question in a different way. Why would any audiophile want or need more than 16bit/48khz? The only reason I can see is some sort of future-proofing.

I beginning to cautiously consider dropping a bit more money and going with the styleaudio emerald. I might keep mulling it over this weekend and try to order something by sunday night.

Rashiki · « **Reply #32 on:** 18 Apr 2009, 06:41 am »

Quote from: raymondbeautrix on 18 Apr 2009, 02:19 am

So I guess I'll ask my question in a different way. Why would any audiophile want or need more than 16bit/48khz? The only reason I can see is some sort of future-proofing.

A higher sample rate would allow for reproduction of higher frequencies. The maximum frequency capable of being reproduced is half of the sample rate, i.e. 48kHz would mean a maximum frequency of 24kHz. Of course, most humans are limited to hearing no more than 20kHz and many of us over forty can't hear much above 12kHz. So why would we care about sounds we can't hear? Many people believe that even though the ear can't discern high frequency sound, we can still sense it and notice it when it's missing. Others feel that even though a 44 or 48kHz sample rate can reproduce sounds up to 22 or 24kHz that a higher sample rate will be better since less data is lost. This is apparent when you view the data with an audio editor -- the data looks "smoother" with a higher sample rate.

The larger bit depth (24-bit vs. 16-bit) allows for more dynamic range and a higher signal to noise ratio.

Many analog fans feel that 16/44 isn't enough data to capture all of the data in an analog recording and hate CD for that reason, but feel that higher-res digital recordings do capture most (or at least more) of the data.

-Rob

wilsynet · « **Reply #33 on:** 18 Apr 2009, 07:00 am »

I've seen more high res (24 bit, 48/88/96/192 kHz etc) audio content available recently. HDtracks, Linn records, Reference Recordings, Chesky Records and a handful of other publishers are now doing this. I haven't tried this myself yet, but those who have are saying very positive things.

The selection is comparatively slim, but it's really starting to show up now. Sufficiently so that I'm starting to think seriously about this. My Isabellina DAC can do 16/96 (truncates 24 bit words to 16 but locks in at 96khz no problem) and I'll likely compare one of these high res tracks on a NOS DAC like the Isabellina to a Benchmark that can do the full 24/96 (I think it can actually do 24/192).

I think I read a post from Nugent where he says the VALAB can also do up to 16/96.

mark funk · « **Reply #34 on:** 18 Apr 2009, 11:33 am »

I have not heard any thing about conversion techniques?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130300402504&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:US:1123

mark funk · « **Reply #35 on:** 18 Apr 2009, 11:35 am »

Sorry worng link

http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm

raymondbeautrix · « **Reply #36 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 04:35 am »

I tracked back and noticed tvyankee posted about the emu 404, that happens to support 24/192 with USB. The emu 202 does this as well, and both systems cost only 99$. The probably is, I haven't yet found many reviews about them. I am a little leery about getting nice audio equipment from creative.

Any have any experience with the 202/404? Now that I realize high-res audio exists, I feel like spending 200$ on a system without it, when I could be getting it for half that seems a bit silly. Of course I know there's other qualities to sound beside "resolution", but that's a pretty big one.

The EMU 202 seems like an attractive option, unless someone's had a bad experience with it? http://us.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=237&subcategory=239&product=15186&listby=

whubbard · « **Reply #37 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 04:52 am »

Ray,
Not to sound like a broken record here, but the Zero does 24/192. With the included adapter it can do USB too, although as I've previously stated, you really won't notice the difference.
It's only $128 + Shipping.

Here is 594 Pages of Review/Discussion on the DAC/Headphone Amplifier.
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/review-zero-24-bit-192khz-dac-headphone-amp-pre-amp-269458/

Also, I should add the Zero DAC link I gave you was for the 'upgraded' version. This just mean that it has an OPA627, which be numerous sources has been shown to improve the DAC section over the old OPA2604.

-West

p.s. I get no personal gain from the Zero DAC, I just know how great a product it is!

raymondbeautrix · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 02:24 pm »

West: It's no problem -- thanks for sticking with the thread and dealing with my slow decision-making process

. So zero does 24/192 through usb? My only concern with the zero dac was Lee mentioned they have a slightly high fail rate/less reliable parts sometimes. It's possible they've improved since the upgrade.

So since the zero and emu 202 are about the same price with similar specs, has anyone heard both or have any insight on which one's better?

These articles seem to cast doubt to some extent on the benefits of high-res audio. As I said before, maybe I should be considering other quality aspects above just the res.
http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/dvdaudio/dvdvscd.htm
http://www.audiojunkies.com/blog/1254/does-highres-audio-really-sound-better

whubbard · « **Reply #39 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: raymondbeautrix on 20 Apr 2009, 02:24 pm

West: It's no problem -- thanks for sticking with the thread and dealing with my slow decision-making process . So zero does 24/192 through usb? My only concern with the zero dac was Lee mentioned they have a slightly high fail rate/less reliable parts sometimes. It's possible they've improved since the upgrade.

I believe the stock DAC (well, upgraded with the OPA627, but from the manufacture) has a zero fail rate. I have never heard of one failing. Now there was someone who was performing after market modifications for about $100 more, he had a much higher fail rate (Turned out that he was just putting the opamps in backwards

and was selling them without testing them). So, I would be high shocked if it failed! I wouldn't buy a modified one from an more unknown seller of eBay, stick to the ones sold by wsz0304.

The reason this DAC seems a bit too good to be true is because it's coming direct from China. Generally I would be wary of buying directly from China, but there were already a lot of good reviews, and I couldn't have been happier with my purchase.

Here is the link to the modified unit:Zero DAC with HDAM + LT1364, and Alps

I'll be honest, this DAC will probably sound better, but it's $90 more (well, shipping is free, so it's really $50 more). I'm pretty darn sure the backwards opamp issue has been fixed. You'll notice that his only negative feedback in the past 12 months is one about him taking 2 weeks to chip over the Chinese New Year. So again, it probably won't fail, but since you looking for an economical DAC, I think the Zero DAC with OP627 is really the best for the money.

-West