What is the best sounding cheapo low power chip amp?

anubisgrau · « **on:** 11 Apr 2009, 03:14 pm »

I'm seeking for a nice, small summer amp to run with my efficient horns.

I have a pair of SET monoblocks but they run hot (7 valves per side) and I don't want that during the summer.

I didn't follow the latest developments in this field. There must be some better stuff than Trends TA-10 or similar.

The thing should be cheap as it will be anyway a kind of a non critical listening, the most important aspect is that it has a non - fatigue sound. I have no too high expectations that it can really substitute my SETs.

Thanks!

maxwalrath · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Apr 2009, 03:49 pm »

Quote from: anubisgrau on 11 Apr 2009, 03:14 pm

There must be some better stuff than Trends TA-10 or similar.

Mardis modified Trends? Still pretty cheap, sounds great to me.

jhm731 · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Apr 2009, 04:23 pm »

www.virtueaudio.com

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #3 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 03:12 am »

Quote from: maxwalrath on 11 Apr 2009, 03:49 pm

Mardis modified Trends? Still pretty cheap, sounds great to me.

I had a Mardis Modified Trends and even after 200 hours remained unimpressed. In my experience the DIY Paradise Charlize is by far the best sounding low powered T amp I've heard. With the right speakers you might be surprised how SET like it is.

BillB · « **Reply #4 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 03:27 am »

I would buy the new Dayton re-issue of the original SI t-amp. Price leader then and now.

If I had to spend money on one, King-rex.

I have heard trends, SI-T, sure t-amp, King rex with and without PSU, Winsome Mouse, Charlize, and Virtue 2.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #5 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 03:40 am »

Quote from: BillB on 12 Apr 2009, 03:27 am

I would buy the new Dayton re-issue of the original SI t-amp. Price leader then and now.

It might be cheap, but bass drops off quickly at at 200 Hz and the top end soars like a strident rocket making it unlistenable for anything but music exclusively in the "midrange".

BillB · « **Reply #6 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 03:50 am »

Most of that can be fixed with a power supply upgrade.

My SI-T with a 65w Power-One SMPS beat all those other ones listed (except the Virtue, didnt exist at the time) in an informal but blind test.

nodiak · « **Reply #7 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 06:39 pm »

Virtue Audio One is turning out to be clear, open, very good 3d, non fatiguing, quiet. Haven't heard alot, just LM3875, older AVA, and some el84 sets. Prefer it now, but if the neurosis strikes again will try more tubes.
Don

dyohn · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 06:54 pm »

The Charlize 2 from diyparadise is a great sounding Tripath amp, if you are a DIY sort of person.

Occam · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 07:11 pm »

Nodiak,

A reviewer friend came over with his Virtue with its upgraded 130watt switching supply. He wanted to see how it would preform in a big inefficient full range system, driving Alon IVs. A pleasent enough, low cost amp, that sounded IMO, that it would make a great subwoofer amp if your sub happened to have a 100+db efficiency. Running out of steam with my speakers was a given, but the even at low levels, the mids and trebles lacked the refinement I expect. Feeding it from a diy Felix conditioner, made everything, in audiophile parlance, mo betta. (do a search on 'felix' in the Lab Circle). I've yet to find a component with a switching supply that doesn't benefit from a Felix (or other appropriate power conditioner with series inductance). If you're comfortable working with potentially lethal AC voltages

,
its a low cost way improving many componets.

FWIW,
Paul

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 07:30 pm »

I'd be inclined to wait until this came online, so to speak:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/dayens/ampino.html

richidoo · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Apr 2009, 08:23 pm »

There are chips worthy of high end audio other than tripath. Linear chips like Toshiba bipolar TA8225 ($20/pair of monoblock chips) and STMicro's MOSFET TDA7560 ($40/4ch/chip) need no output filter. Both give 10+ solid watts (8ohms) and sound ultra delicious, clear and harmonically sophisticated like tubes, solid visceral bass like SS. Nobody makes high end audio products with these so use the app notes to roll your own with a car battery, or get a 16V racing battery or Paul Hynes 16V/10amp power supply for best performance. Use a PLC heatsink.

nodiak · « **Reply #12 on:** 13 Apr 2009, 01:21 am »

Paul, hmm, I'm getting the opposite, but with ~ efficient Hemp FR8's (plus tweeter, coil and cap xo. Whizzer removed, phase plugs added to FR8) and Virtues small 24V PS. Open, clear, balanced treble and mids. They say the 130 watt supply your friend uses has a lot of bass slam, maybe it overwhelms the upper ranges? I went with small PS and use a powered sub which is working out so I can adjust deep bass seperate of the Virtue. Maybe just tastes and/or synergy.
Don

anubisgrau · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 May 2009, 01:17 am »

so we are coming closer to a decision

tim rawson 3886 gainclone (with a comfort of not thinking about a battery or so - the thing goes into AC direct)

or

charlize (factory version, with a SLA battery)

what would be yr choice?

H2K · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 May 2009, 02:42 am »

Not pretty but what about this one?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=67475.0

No affiliation with the seller

bummrush · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 May 2009, 03:39 am »

Google this,No idea how long its been around,but the price is nice,see what you think Scythe
"KAMA BAY AMP" 2ch Amplifier,actually looks decent,

*Scotty* · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 May 2009, 03:58 am »

anubisgrau,My vote would be for the Tim Rawson gainclone,no BATTERY, with a few modifications. Have him build a gainclone using LM4780 chips one per/ch. This puts two LM3886s in parallel on each channel which doubles the current possible into low impedance loads,at least on paper and halves the output impedance for better bass. I would also spec a 500 watt toroid with 25 volt secondaries which gives you a rail of+and -35volts which is sufficient to produce 60 watts rms into an 8 ohm load from the chips. With this big a transformer the amp will also double its output into 4ohm loads. The other the final touch is to use pairs of 10,000mfd Jensen caps for for each channel. Using these filter caps in the supply improves the stage depth and the transparency. The amp won't be nearly as good without them. This does drive up the parts cost on the amp but the results are worth the effort. The LM 3886/4780 chip is underrated and under-utilized most of the time and is usually severely handicapped by a completely inadequate power supply. Without large enough filter-caps in the power supply the ripple the amp has to deal with when it is driving load is horrible. When you support the chip with an excellent power supply and bias it to about 3watts class A it will produce a very large wall to wall soundstage with superb transparency allowing you to hear a very long ways into the recording with very good depth and levels of micro detail. The amp will also deliver very good dynamic attack and scaling preserving the life that was captured in the original recording. The chip does not deliver the last bit of high frequency extension or the absolute cutting edge of reality or dynamic attack that may be present in the recording. The gainclone when done properly will deliver about 95% of the information in recording dead on the money and the last 5% is a sin of omission, which is kind to less than perfect recordings. This is pretty impressive for a $9/ch chip amp.
I have basically described the amp I am running in my main system hence the obvious bias in my vote.
Scotty

whubbard · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 May 2009, 04:39 am »

Seems an AC member is selling his new Rawson Dual 3886:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=67949.msg628125

-West

turkey · « **Reply #18 on:** 20 May 2009, 03:17 pm »

Quote from: anubisgrau on 10 May 2009, 01:17 am

so we are coming closer to a decision

tim rawson 3886 gainclone (with a comfort of not thinking about a battery or so - the thing goes into AC direct)

I've heard Tim's amps and they sounded good. He's a very nice guy too. Plus, just listen to him talk about audio gear and you'll see how much passion he has for it.

dave_c · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Jun 2009, 01:13 am »

I had a mardis Trends for a while and really liked it. I just upgraded to a Red Wine Audio Signature 30 for $850 used. It may not exactly be cheap, but the difference in quality is staggering. I would say its worth your time to try it. Even though the Sig 30.2 is supposed to be a significant upgrade, the Sig 30 is no joke. I also like that it feels like a high quality component with service and support an email or forum post away. No need for an expensive powercord and no worries about heat. Just have to make sure to charge every night, but its no different than turning your amp off. Is it $200? No, but I think the difference in quality is significantly greater than the $650 price difference between the cheap stuff and the goods.