Are there really folks that prefer CD's sonically?

cryoparts · « **Reply #160 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 11:15 pm »

Frank, try these guys:

http://www.sound-smith.com/

Lee

Quote from: avahifi on 20 Apr 2009, 09:19 pm

I would prefer vinyl a lot more if I could get my Denon DL103 phono cartridge repaired at a reasonable price in a reasonable amount of time.

I wrote to the guy in the USA who is supposed to be able to do this but no response at all.

It is pretty silly to have to send a phono cartridge off to Europe and pay $300 or so for a stylus replacement.

Any reasonable suggestions?

I borrowed a friend's Denon in the process of playing with a moving coil RIAA phono preamp experiment, and although it was more refined than my Longhorn Grado, it was lacking in dynamics, bass, and just plain musicality. It looks like a great candidate for a Longhorn Stabilizer Bar, but I can't do that on someone else's unit, I need to have mine working again. It needs a new stylus assembly, as is it is broken off flush.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #161 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 11:42 pm »

Jeff/TONEPUB....I couldn't respond to your PM just now as your mailbox is full.

Clear out some old, dead wood and we can put a new yuletide log inside your Inbox

John (sorry for the intrusion into the thread

)

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #162 on:** 20 Apr 2009, 11:59 pm »

I have owned several turntables. Kemwood marble base with SME arm, a couple of Regas with diferent arms including grace 707, as well as an Orcacle with several different arms including the best arm I had, a Alphason 1000s. Even have a turntable sitting in storage. Had many cartriges from Grado, to Dynavector Ruby, to the Iverson EK1 strain guage cartridge system. And I am forgetting quite of bit of gear here.

With the sound I get from my computer based audio playback I don't miss vinyl. I certainly don't miss the hassles of cleaning the records, de-magnatizing them, and wiping the stylist with Stylast, etc. For me whatever gains one gets sound wise from vinyl is eclipsed by the ease of use of digital.

I would record albums to a Fostex 16 track reel to reel, ie: analogue, and then mix to a Dat master. I did not feel hard done by going to digital.

More important to me than vinyl is one's room, speaker placement, and speakers. This makes a far more profound effect on audio, as long as one's digital source is good.

For me, I like the choice and digital can sound very good. I can even listen to well done mp3's I get off the internet and really enjoy them. As I am dong right now as I write. I know it sounds crazy. Maybe I am just easier to please as I age. Hey, what's that you say sonny! Speak up boy.

Rocket_digitally phased out_Ronny

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #163 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 12:26 am »

Every several months I'll have to clean the dust from the cooling fan of my hard drive based music server with a cotton swab.
But I wouldn't recommend the demagnetizing thing.

Bob

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #164 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 12:49 am »

Haven't tried to demagnatize my hard drives yet, but my kids dig up my static gun and shoot each other with it. Hasn't helped a bit. They are still the same.

Rocket_Ronny

Bill Baker · « **Reply #165 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 01:49 am »

Over the years I have experimented with both vinyl and digital in many different forms. I will say that if both formats really depend more on the quality and capability of the system. My digital (redbook CD) system is stunning through my system as it stands right now. The same system is also used for vinyl.
For me it is simply a matter of the mood I am in. I listen to mostly CD's during the day as my time is spent at the benches and the convenience and long play of digital allows to remain at the benches without interuption. When I want to be absorbed into the music, I'll take a seat on the couch and throw on some vinyl. I live happily with both.
A good system is a good system regardless of the format being used. After all, it's all about the music.

rajacat · « **Reply #166 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 01:58 am »

One thing that sometimes annoys me about digital is that it's not quite as relaxing as good vinyl. I don't know if it is residual jitter or what? It's almost a subconscious thing that's hard to put my finger on. Eventually, I'm sure, this nebulous feeling will disappear as computer playback becomes more refined. I don't get this feeling on all digital playback, all the time, but it's an annoyance that occurs enough to be a bother.

-Roy

arthurs · « **Reply #167 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 02:01 am »

Quote from: Response Audio on 21 Apr 2009, 01:49 am

Over the years I have experimented with both vinyl and digital in many different forms. I will say that if both formats really depend more on the quality and capability of the system. My digital (redbook CD) system is stunning through my system as it stands right now. The same system is also used for vinyl.
For me it is simply a matter of the mood I am in. I listen to mostly CD's during the day as my time is spent at the benches and the convenience and long play of digital allows to remain at the benches without interuption. When I want to be absorbed into the music, I'll take a seat on the couch and throw on some vinyl. I live happily with both.
A good system is a good system regardless of the format being used. After all, it's all about the music.

+1 Well said Bill!

Mariusz · « **Reply #168 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 02:30 am »

Learning to enjoy both and look past the horizon, takes a little carriage.
But most of all, it takes the passion for music to enjoy its every form.
Live, recorded, analog or digital should make us shiver like the Arctic Breeze.
If it doesn't, do not blame the format.

Mariusz

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #169 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 02:48 am »

Again guys, ya'll make good points, but the title of the thread is Are there really folks that prefer CD's sonically?

So, far there have been very few that choose CD's for sonics over vinyl when they're side-by-side....pretty much as I expected and now confirmed. It's a given that all digital technologies are more convenient/effortless; this thread is about superior sonics/format

John (the OP)

Mariusz · « **Reply #170 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 03:08 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 21 Apr 2009, 02:48 am

Again guys, ya'll make good points, but the title of the thread is Are there really folks that prefer CD's sonically?

So, far there have been very few that choose CD's for sonics over vinyl when they're side-by-side....pretty much as I expected and now confirmed. It's a given that all digital technologies are more convenient/effortless; this thread is about superior sonics/format

John (the OP)

Well, I've said that ones already - vinyl seductiveness has an effect on me personally but wether it is or it isn't the common point of view, I leave it to others.

Mariusz

andyr · « **Reply #171 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 03:20 am »

Quote from: Response Audio on 21 Apr 2009, 01:49 am

Over the years I have experimented with both vinyl and digital in many different forms. I will say that if both formats really depend more on the quality and capability of the system. My digital (redbook CD) system is stunning through my system as it stands right now. The same system is also used for vinyl.
For me it is simply a matter of the mood I am in. I listen to mostly CD's during the day as my time is spent at the benches and the convenience and long play of digital allows to remain at the benches without interuption. When I want to be absorbed into the music, I'll take a seat on the couch and throw on some vinyl. I live happily with both.
A good system is a good system regardless of the format being used. After all, it's all about the music.

IMO, RA, you haven't directly answered the OP's question - simply raved on about how fantastic your redbook-CD replay is.

The OP's Qu IMO is quite simple - do you think vinyl has better sound than CDs ... or CDs better sound than vinyl?

However, the fact that you wrote "When I want to be absorbed into the music, I'll take a seat on the couch and throw on some vinyl" has perhaps given us your answer, subliminally!

I take what you wrote to mean that while CD sounds great and is fine for background - in fact, preferred, as you don't have to get distracted from what you're doing every 20 minutes or so to change sides - when you want to listen to music, you choose vinyl.

Regards,

Andy

Browntrout · « **Reply #172 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 09:34 am »

I don't disagree with you Tonepub, the mastering can ruin any recording. Twitch54, I have heard a quality digital front end, that's why I listen to vinyl.

Quote

I can tell what the singer had for lunch............the previous day.

I can tell whether they mean what they are singing or not aa

The reason I can say that digital will never sound as good as vinyl (anaolgue) is because of it's very nature. How can digital sound as good as vinyl? One is not complete the other is. I suppose you cannot see the artificiality in digital film or television transmission? The harshness, the unnatural definition or etched outlines.
Surely we can agree from a purely technical standpoint that if you don't start with the complete waveform you can never achieve completely natural playback.
If you have never seen a great masters painting and someone shows you a photograph of it do you get the same effect as being stood infront of it, without all the brushstokes in front of your eyes?
Perhaps it all comes down to people not being able to tell the truth from something which is false. This happens alot in other walks of life, there are so many fake things, perhaps people have given up trying. I don't understand how people can't hear the atificiality of digital it's fake boobs and cosmetic surgery sound, it's perfect nose and white teeth so to speak. Very attractive but not honest, which matters to me.

DTB300 · « **Reply #173 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 12:22 pm »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 21 Apr 2009, 02:48 am

Again guys, ya'll make good points, but the title of the thread is Are there really folks that prefer CD's sonically? John (the OP)

I do not think there is a "true" cut and dry, absolute answer to this. Too many variables thrown in to make a generalized statement. People have stated, sonically, they have heard good music on both setups. So I would say YES, REALLY, there are people who prefer CD, but there are people who prefer vinyl, live, tape, music servers, etc. Music, music, music...

Bill Baker · « **Reply #174 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 01:50 pm »

Quote

"When I want to be absorbed into the music, I'll take a seat on the couch and throw on some vinyl" has perhaps given us your answer, subliminally!

You got it

bummrush · « **Reply #175 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 02:32 pm »

you could also put this talk into who likes digital amps over solid state amps,for me solid state wins big time,can i pin down what i dont like about dig amps ,,no not really,but there is definitely something not right.But as far as cd goes i dont doubt there is people who dont like cd but have a hard time trying to figure out why they dont like it.

twitch54 · « **Reply #176 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 02:44 pm »

Quote from: Browntrout on 21 Apr 2009, 09:34 am

I have heard a quality digital front end, that's why I listen to vinyl.

Browntrout, please understand I'm not putting vinyl down, hell I continue to listen and enjoy it as much today as I did when I purchased my first record 48 years ago !

I'm merely trying to point out that anyone that makes a 'carte blanche' statement that digital can't sound as good as vinyl is just flat out wrong. Again as many of us have said and KNOW, there are excellent as well as poor renderings from both camps !

Another thing I chuckle over is the number of people of late lushing over vinyl, while I love to see / hear this, I'm willing to bet that a great percentage of them have yet to hear a trully top flight analog front end !

Rocket_Ronny · « **Reply #177 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 02:53 pm »

If digital is too serile, or shrill, then look at your player, or dac. My Metric Halo dac serves up digital with nice warmth, fantastic imaging, and great detail.

Then, go another step and run tubes in the system. The McAlister PP 150 amp I am using is very fast, dynamic, and detailed, yet very smooth, like in super smooth. I am not talking boring smooth, not at all. Smooth as in no harshness at all. It's all gone.

Another thing to add to digital is the SP Speaker line. It offers up fantastic organic wholeness and warmth to the party. The tweeter is not as fast, or open, as really good ribbon types, but it does add body and warmth. If you don't sit there comparing it to ribbons you won't care. For digital it is a good match.

There is a warmth, and organic wholeness that vinyl offers. If that is your crack then I understand your addiction. Been there man. I just know I can be very happy with digital and don't think at all about vinyl, yet I know why some do. I understand your passion.

Rocket_01010101010101010_Ronny

konut · « **Reply #178 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 03:52 pm »

Quote from: Browntrout on 21 Apr 2009, 09:34 am

The reason I can say that digital will never sound as good as vinyl (anaolgue) is because of it's very nature. How can digital sound as good as vinyl? One is not complete the other is. I suppose you cannot see the artificiality in digital film or television transmission? The harshness, the unnatural definition or etched outlines.
Surely we can agree from a purely technical standpoint that if you don't start with the complete waveform you can never achieve completely natural playback.

Only the live performance is complete. ANY recording can only be an approximation of the live event. ANY playback can only be an approximation of that event. My preference for digital is based on the silence between the notes. Based on the responses to this thread, few people appreciate this "other half" of the music. This is where vinyl can never equal digital. Yes, there ARE folks that prefer DIGITAL sonically! Get over it! Why is it the people feel the need to justify, as superior, their preference? Its just DIFFERENT.

Bob in St. Louis · « **Reply #179 on:** 21 Apr 2009, 03:57 pm »

Quote from: Rocket_Ronny on 21 Apr 2009, 02:53 pm

Rocket_01010101010101010_Ronny

That's funny right there!!