[zybar]

I do.   

I'll explain why later...

George

[ZLS]

"ZLS - everything counts...CD and hard drive sound much the same to me once you damp the CD/disc and have a relatively jitter free player at hand.  That's what I've found, at least"

    The ability to create my own playlists on a Hard Drive system is something I am unwilling to give up.  Besides the fun I derive by being my own Disc Jockey depending on my mood; I have on numerous occasions have had an understanding of how one artist was influenced by another artist.  It is as if a picture has suddenly come into focus, and my appreciation and understanding of the music has deepened.  I listen to a lot of Jazz, and to hear the same song performed by different artists is both fun and educational.  

    I realize as I write this that by taking the time to create a playlist I am taking a more active role in the playback of my music just as listen to vinyl forces you to do.  

    Just one persons opinion, YMMV

[zybar]

I do.   

I'll explain why later...

George

While I haven't actively listened to records for the last 4 years, my digital source has gotten better and better to the point where I feel that it is just about equal to vinyl on redbook and superior when playing hi-rez music.

The days of digital glare and grit are long gone and the players  have taken giant leaps forward.  I can connect to music through my digital front end in the same manner as a vinyl front end.  My only gripe these days is not with my player, but with the mastering job done by the studios.  If we could just get  today's engineers to actual master music for a nice stereo instead of an iPod or computer, I would really be a happy puppy!

As was pointed out previously, hi-rez music is really the future that will clearly put digital ahead vinyl in terms of sonics.  When I play my 24/88 or 24/96 music, it is leaps and bounds ahead of 16/44 redbook across the board.  I have run tests with audiophile and non-audiophile friends and each and every time they can easily AND correctly pick which is hi-rez and which is redbook when I play one of each type using the same song.

Now that the sonics of my digital front end (Modwright Transporter) have caught up with vinyl, it really is an easy choice over spinning the black circle.  The incredible advantage computer based digital has over vinyl in terms of ease of use, flexibility, etc...really makes it a no-brainer for ME.

If others want to stick with the vinyl ritual, I am cool with that and say "have a blast".  I will almost certainly never go back.

George

[TheChairGuy]

I'll apologise upfront to the moderator for posting this in a Vinyl Circle,,, seems like there's a lot of "Are there really folks that prefer" threads lately.

Cheers,
Robin

No apologies needed, Robin...I started it

One HUGE thing that should be noted is that Vinyl is an experience best enjoyed in smaller rooms.  It doesn't have the dynamic range (no matter how we try to bend reality with new cartridge or table it cannot be changed) and doesn't 'charge' the room as digital technologies do.  In the past 20+ years the average American home grew by 30% on average (and the family size inside fell by 30%).

I may have yet to hear a vinyl-based front end sounding superb in a large room.  Very, very few, at least.

So, on average, it leaves larger rooms for fewer people...a perfect recipe for better enjoyment of digital technologies (CD, DVD, etc)

Vinyl in the UK (and probably Japan) survived the dark 80's and 90's better as the average home/room is smaller.  Who wants to walk 20'+ to change an album side - it's much easier when the player is 8' away.  Convenience and sonics based on room size is no trivial matter in a decision to scorn vinyl

Scotty - 3D is 3D.  There is width, depth, and height to the music/sound that is not replicated with digital technologies.  There is a reality to the sound (not with all cartridges, the Grado and other MM's win there and that tends to be my deciding line, and it's much pricier to achieve it with belt drive decks) that is never approximated with digital for me.

Give me a modded/Longhorned Grado (preferably on a fluid damped arm) in many direct drive decks (filled with modeling clay) running into a capable full functioned preamp, with scrupulously cleaned albums in rooms less than 15' x 20' and you'll hear sonics that no digital technology I have ever heard can rival. 

The real event can be in your room for a lot less than imagined   CD/DVD-A is merely a more convenient format that sound more engrossing than FM in my 12 x 16' room. 

John

[*Scotty*]

John if I understand you correctly the CD replay you have heard had an image that was confined to the plane of the speakers,did not image any higher than the top of the loudspeakers and did not image beyond the sides of the speakers. It may have also seemed squashed dynamically as well as lacking a sense of the space that the recording took place in.
In other words,musical wallpaper. I would not enjoy this standard of replay either.
Scotty

[zybar]

One HUGE thing that should be noted is that Vinyl is an experience best enjoyed in smaller rooms.  It doesn't have the dynamic range (no matter how we try to bend reality with new cartridge or table it cannot be changed) and doesn't 'charge' the room as digital technologies do.  In the past 20+ years the average American home grew by 30% on average (and the family size inside fell by 30%).

I may have yet to hear a vinyl-based front end sounding superb in a large room.  Very, very few, at least.


John

John,

I have heard some killer vinyl setups at shows (such as RMAF) in very large rooms (some as large a ballroom).  Granted, these vinyl setups (and their accompanying gear) cost a small fortune, but they did sound very, very good.

In my old house, my listening room was roughly 3000 cubic feet and my Linn TT setup was definitely better than various digital front ends.

George

[JCC]

As my friends have taught me, part of the reason that you can copy a CD and get better sound, is because of the errors that were distributed on the original, and were corrected in the copying process. The software corrects these problems. The convenience of a computer based server is undeniable.

If you system is up to the task, the quality of the detail from the finest vinyl playback is also undeniable.  When I listen to Wagner's Die Walkere (Sheffield Lab) I hear the Los Angeles Philharmonic in all it's glory, just like I was in an auditorium. I have yet to equal that on my CD's.

I like both mediums, and in certain cases I prefer CD's. But I love the detail that I get from my vinyl!!

[Browntrout]

I used to listen to a good CD player but found the sound annoying after say about an hour and a half of listening. This I have found to be much more the case with compressed files.
  Does anyone else have this problem? Have the more modern players made it possible to listen for longer without getting a headache?
  Being mildly philosophical, digital is not High Fidelity as you do not have the complete sound wave to start with. How can it be honest and truthfull to the original performance when that performance in it's entirety never even enters your house?
  At least with vinyl and reel to reel we are striving for perfection, digital is like giving up and admitting that we never can.

[timind]

I used to listen to a decent vinyl set up but was always annoyed by the pops, ticks and groove noise inherent in records. Early cd sound was also annoying with its painfully bright/harsh quality but four or five years ago I found a cdp that doesn't exhibit any of the nastiness associated with digital but lets the music through. Sold the vinyl collection of 30 years shortly after and haven't regretted it once.
Now I can listen to music for hours without annoyance from either format. I can actually listen to music instead of listening to my system. What a pleasure that is.

[Niteshade]

I like CD's and do not have much experience with records. The idea of a electromechanical pickup is awesome!    I played records before I had a CD player, but it was a cheap system and I was only around 10-12 years old.


To those who do not like CD's: Why? I have listened very closely for artifacts with a horn-based speaker system and various amplifiers, but could not find any aberrations worth mentioning. There is no quantization noise.  My sampling rate is 44.1khz via a DVD player/recorder. In fact, I thought the sound on a good recording was extremely transparent.

I imagine vinyl to be 'organic' sounding in nature. Have any of you tried recording a record directly to a CD? Did you notice any differences?

[ecramer]

ION LP 2 CD USB Turntable with direct-to-CD recording

http://www.amazon.com/ION-USB-Turntable-direct-recording/dp/B001B9SH4U/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&s=audio-video&qid=1239540015&sr=1-17

Now everyone can be happy  

As far as the question in the subject is whatever copy i have that sounds best to me. wither its a remastered CD or an original pressing LP to a new pressed 180gr LP i don't care. Its all about what i am In the mood to listen to, Not the medium used for playback that concerns me.

  
ED

[TheChairGuy]

I used to listen to a good CD player but found the sound annoying after say about an hour and a half of listening. This I have found to be much more the case with compressed files.

Oh yeah...you were lucky to have stuck around for 90 minutes...I would bail after 30 
 

Does anyone else have this problem? Have the more modern players made it possible to listen for longer without getting a headache?

Yup, as noted above.....buy a new player.  I've yet to hear one of 'em at any price point the past 4-5 years (as Timind indicated) that hasn't at least sounded decent.  The format came far further and at lower prices than I thought it ever could pre-2004. 
 

Being mildly philosophical, digital is not High Fidelity as you do not have the complete sound wave to start with. How can it be honest and truthfull to the original performance when that performance in it's entirety never even enters your house? At least with vinyl and reel to reel we are striving for perfection, digital is like giving up and admitting that we never can.

Good points - I'll defer on the technical aspects of it's shortcoming(s) to others better equipped, but despite great strides forward, CD remains a second class format for me. 

It never quite gets to 'real' status no matter what's tried.  But, so long as I understand what I'm listening to is not an 'event', I can now listen to CD for hours at a time and enjoy it as pleasant (mostly) background.  A recent vintage CD/DVD (I own the Cambridge DVD99 for $299 and it's swell) and a pair of $218.00 Dakiom Feedback Stabilizer offers far better sound than I ever thought CD would.  DVD-A is a smidge better, too (SACD is odd sounding to me).  But, when scrupulously clean vinyl goes on my JVC direct drive and one of a few fave/great cartridges head it up, the music is heaven-sent 

I've actually found myself lulled into thinking how good/enjoyable my CD playback is now (that never happened before so this is progress!).....but, when the vinyl goes on, in a minute I know what matters most Some of you that have a top-notch CD system and profess to it being great, should have a very good vinyl system and clean records nearby to compare. 

My mouth is agape playing vinyl....my ears & brain are merely satisfied playing CD

John

[bummrush]

And really you can go back close to 8,9 yrs ago when Arcam came out with cd92,cd 23 players,sound was well ahead of its time,and these players are still classics and as good as any out there to this date.Bargains on Agon.Theres been really good cd sound for many many years,just like any component you just have to find the better ones.

[rajacat]

I can't understand why there is still discussion of CD players. It's old technology that will soon disappear like cassette players did in the past. Computer based audio is the best playback currently available aside from very expensive vinyl systems.  Soon most serious audiophiles will be downloading High Rez audio files for storage and playback. I like both vinyl and computer based audio and for the near term both will have a place in my system. I haven't used my CD player for three years. It is no longer in the audio rack. I keep it on hand just in case my modded Squeezebox turns belly up.

If you investigate this thread it's not difficult finding various posts describing the rapture they've experienced while listening to their Modwright Transporters. You'll find similar expressions of ecstasy in the Empirical Audio circle.   

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56360.msg617985;topicseen#new
-Roy
 

[zybar]

I can't understand why there is still discussion of CD players. It's old technology that will soon disappear like cassette players have in the past. Computer based audio is the best playback currently available aside from very expensive vinyl systems.  Soon most serious audiophiles will be downloading High Rez audio files for storage and playback. I like both vinyl and computer based audio and for the near term both will have a place in my system. I haven't used my CD player for three years. It is no longer in the audio rack. I keep it on hand just in case my modded Squeezebox turns belly up.

If you investigate this thread it's not difficult finding various posts describing the rapture they've experienced while listening to their Modwright Transporters. You'll find similar expressions of ecstasy in the Empirical Audio circle.   

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56360.msg617985;topicseen#new
-Roy
 

+1   

[ecramer]

I can't understand why there is still discussion of CD players. It's old technology that will soon disappear like cassette players did in the past. Computer based audio is the best playback currently available aside from very expensive vinyl systems.  Soon most serious audiophiles will be downloading High Rez audio files for storage and playback. I like both vinyl and computer based audio and for the near term both will have a place in my system. I haven't used my CD player for three years. It is no longer in the audio rack. I keep it on hand just in case my modded Squeezebox turns belly up.

If you investigate this thread it's not difficult finding various posts describing the rapture they've experienced while listening to their Modwright Transporters. You'll find similar expressions of ecstasy in the Empirical Audio circle.   

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56360.msg617985;topicseen#new
-Roy
 

Totally disagree about computer playback which i find very soulless i would take a $50 dvd player over most computer system. the one's i heard that i liked were mostly highly modded unites that you could buy a very good TT or CDP and cut out all or most of the digital manipulation.

ED

As far as the future and hi speed downloads of  High Rez audio files unless they do a major over haul  of the web bandwidth constraints will kill  that along with High Rez video/ movies

[Thebiker]

After my long hiatus from vinyl, I returned to the fold about 6 or 8 weeks ago.  The first LP spun left me with my mouth hanging open .  It had me asking myself why I left this open, organic and three dimensional sound for the "convenience" of CD's. 

Like other folks have mentioned, CD playback has improved, both due to recording techniques and better DAC's in the players out there.  But it still doesn't do, for me, what a vinyl rig hooked to an all tube system does, which is envelope me in the music.  SACD comes close with some recordings but vinyl rules .  YMMV

Walt

[zybar]

I can't understand why there is still discussion of CD players. It's old technology that will soon disappear like cassette players did in the past. Computer based audio is the best playback currently available aside from very expensive vinyl systems.  Soon most serious audiophiles will be downloading High Rez audio files for storage and playback. I like both vinyl and computer based audio and for the near term both will have a place in my system. I haven't used my CD player for three years. It is no longer in the audio rack. I keep it on hand just in case my modded Squeezebox turns belly up.

If you investigate this thread it's not difficult finding various posts describing the rapture they've experienced while listening to their Modwright Transporters. You'll find similar expressions of ecstasy in the Empirical Audio circle.   

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=56360.msg617985;topicseen#new
-Roy
 

Totally disagree about computer playback which i find very soulless i would take a $50 dvd player over most computer system. the one's i heard that i liked were mostly highly modded unites that you could buy a very good TT or CDP and cut out all or most of the digital manipulation.

ED

As far as the future and hi speed downloads of  High Rez audio files unless they do a major over haul  of the web bandwidth constraints will kill  that along with High Rez video/ movies

Ed,

I think you are a little off on this one.  

While I won't make the sweeping statement that all computer based audio is great sounding, I can assure you that my computer based digital front end is not soulless and sounds killer.  I use a Modwright Transporter in my computer setup.  While it isn't cheap, I think it will be challenging to find an analog setup that equals or surpasses it for the same amount of money.

As for downloading hi-rez music...it is fast and easy.  Don't confuse downloading/streaming 30-50GB Blu-ray hi-rez movies with downloading 500MB-1GB hi-rez music albums.  With my Verizon FIOS account, I am able to hit download speeds of 20 Mbps.  Speeds will continue to go up and prices come down as more and more time goes by.

George

[werd]

I love my Bryston Bda-1, adjustable 16 or 24 bit res. Its funny i used to immediately assume 24 bit was the way to go. Trying to bandaid the many misforgivings of optical playback kept us focused on this high res. I have done alot of listening with laptop via usb into this dac and found the 16 bit to be more in the way of analogue sounding on a great many recordings. Some recordings sound better in 24 bit and some recording i find sound better through modded sony transport. However the 16 bit has some great merit. The transients on 16 bit are closer to how i equate analogue sounding, along with the leading edges(from what i remember... . Its been awhile since i've owned a vinyl deck.

I am just thinking (in the grand scheme of things) that we are the very start of something  special with harddrives and playback. Its only going to get way better. i am not sure how much better vinyl can get but i suppose there is alway room for improvement.

[Wayner]

While I certainly enjoy all of the formentioned formats and in my case, I'm on a long vinyl trip, the ratio of vinyl to CD playback is about 100 to 1.

Call me an old fuddy-duddy, but I would have a great fear of having all of my music as a "download". Working in the hard-drive industry, I know that drives crash. All of them (eventually). And while solid state drives have a small footstep in the doorway, they are still relatively new and unproven.

What will you do when you crash? Or will you have several drives as back up?

My backup sits on the shelf, waiting for it's turn to spin in something.

Wayner