[rms]

I recently upgraded from my Omegastar DAC to an Insight, and then did the opamp upgrade. This has been really fun and significant improvements with each step - thanks Frank!

To continue on with my upgradeitis I am considering moving from my RME 9652 soundcard to a Lynx AES16. The only downside to the Lynx is the outputs are only AES/EBU, so I need to do a conversion from that to spdif for my Insight DAC. What is the best way to accomplish this without signal degradation?

My signal chain is PC playing flac via Foobar 0.8.3 to RME 9652 spdif out to Insight DAC to Axiom passive attenuator to DAC 4800A to SP Tech Continuum Monitors.

Thanks,
RMS

[turkey]

The Hosa CDL-313 is supposed to work well.

[rms]

Thanks Turkey - looks like that will do the trick.

Just curious though, has anybody ever had Frank modify their DAC (or pre or amp) with AES/EBU inputs? That would save me a cable between converter and DAC and possibly prevent some signal degradation.

[Tom Alverson]

Do you  have a way for your  PC to output the "raw" data from your FLAC files without the  PC sound system doing any gain control?  I have SPDIF output on some of my PC's but have never tried feeding it  to my Insight DAC.  I  wouldn't worry about degradation - bits are bits.

Tom

[rms]

The RME 9652 card uses an ASIO driver written by RME and does a nice job of outputting the bits. Not being an engineer my understanding is rudimentary but the concern is jitter in the signal. I have read a lot on this topic in many places and to the best of my knowledge the less you have regardless of origin and place in the signal path the better. The Lynx AES16 card has the lowest levels of jitter of any currently produced sound card and is widely used in recording and mastering studios. In addition to listening for pleasure I also record using Sonar 8 on my PC so I am trying to get a signal path that will allow me to monitor and record multiple inputs. I believe I may end up buying the Lynx AES 16 and an Aurora 8 channel AD/DA to achieve that. However, I still want to use the Insight DAC and am just worried that the resistor in any type of AES to spdif converter might cause some signal loss? The question mark is because I don't know.

[turkey]

Thanks Turkey - looks like that will do the trick.

Just curious though, has anybody ever had Frank modify their DAC (or pre or amp) with AES/EBU inputs? That would save me a cable between converter and DAC and possibly prevent some signal degradation.

Analog-style signal degradation doesn't really apply to the digital world. With digital, it pretty much either works or it doesn't.

I would not be terribly concerned about the cable between the converter and the DAC, especially if it's short (1 meter or less).

[turkey]

The RME 9652 card uses an ASIO driver written by RME and does a nice job of outputting the bits. Not being an engineer my understanding is rudimentary but the concern is jitter in the signal. I have read a lot on this topic in many places and to the best of my knowledge the less you have regardless of origin and place in the signal path the better. The Lynx AES16 card has the lowest levels of jitter of any currently produced sound card and is widely used in recording and mastering studios. In addition to listening for pleasure I also record using Sonar 8 on my PC so I am trying to get a signal path that will allow me to monitor and record multiple inputs. I believe I may end up buying the Lynx AES 16 and an Aurora 8 channel AD/DA to achieve that. However, I still want to use the Insight DAC and am just worried that the resistor in any type of AES to spdif converter might cause some signal loss? The question mark is because I don't know.

Jitter is a hobgoblin supported by some reviewers and also by makers of gadgets that claim to reduce or eliminate jitter.

In reality, it is not even certain that jitter is audible in most cases. I also have not seen any proof that jitter is worth worrying about with modern equipment.

[avahifi]

"The RME 9652 card uses an ASIO driver written by RME"  ??   

You guys have finally gotten way past me.  Nobody told me about those thingies when I was back in school 50 years ago or so.

Although when I was growing up we did have one major technological innovation that seems to have vanished over the years, complete voice activated telephones.

No dials, no need for directories, no need for conference calling.  You simply picked up the phone and the operator said "number please"  then you heard all the other clicks as everyone else on the party line picked up their phones to snoop in too -- instant conference call at no extra charge.

My record player was spring driven, the big audiophile debate was whether thorn stylus needles were better than the new fangled steel needles, and before that how gol darned electric amplified record players were ruining the sound as compared to the good old acoustical horns that were built in.  Nobody had good sounding wires at all, such a shame.  I wonder why Edison did not invent them.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[turkey]

old acoustical horns that were built in.  Nobody had good sounding wires at all, such a shame.  I wonder why Edison did not invent them.

Because he favored DC power distribution.

It wasn't until Tesla and Westinghouse started putting in AC power distribution that you had longer distance power lines. Those lines were long enough that the wind could vibrate them, leading to good sound from the wires.

[TomS]

I recently upgraded from my Omegastar DAC to an Insight, and then did the opamp upgrade. This has been really fun and significant improvements with each step - thanks Frank!

To continue on with my upgradeitis I am considering moving from my RME 9652 soundcard to a Lynx AES16. The only downside to the Lynx is the outputs are only AES/EBU, so I need to do a conversion from that to spdif for my Insight DAC. What is the best way to accomplish this without signal degradation?

My signal chain is PC playing flac via Foobar 0.8.3 to RME 9652 spdif out to Insight DAC to Axiom passive attenuator to DAC 4800A to SP Tech Continuum Monitors.

Thanks,
RMS

I used one of these transformers from Markertek to properly match the SPDIF 75 ohm (BNC) to AES/EBU 110 ohm (XLR) for my Behringer DCX2496 digital input (AES/EBU) from my Squeezebox (SPDIF) digital out.  I think yours would just be the other way around.

http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=NA-BF&off=0&sort=prod&skuonly=0&search=neutrik+transformer&pagesize=20

Tom

[turkey]

No dials, no need for directories, no need for conference calling.  You simply picked up the phone and the operator said "number please"  then you heard all the other clicks as everyone else on the party line picked up their phones to snoop in too -- instant conference call at no extra charge.

We have modern equivalents to keep all the snoopy people occupied. Some prefer Reality shows, and others go right for the Jerry Springer Show. (This ties right in with Edison and Tesla, since many of the people on Jerry Springer can't decide between AC and DC either.)

[Minn Mark]

hi turkey,
I was feeling a little poorly today, and your post gave me the laugh I really needed.    I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about here......but I am really enjoying my upgrades, too (Insight DAC, preamp and 440H) no op-amp upgrades, as I'm not sure I want to take the covers off myself, and really don't want to part with the equipment by sending it to Frank.

I don't watch the reality shows, and am pretty sure I'm AC (see also Now Playing)

Best regards to all,

Mark

[turkey]

hi turkey,
I was feeling a little poorly today, and your post gave me the laugh I really needed.    I have absolutely no idea what you guys are talking about here......but I am really enjoying my upgrades, too (Insight DAC, preamp and 440H) no op-amp upgrades, as I'm not sure I want to take the covers off myself, and really don't want to part with the equipment by sending it to Frank.

I'm glad I could cheer you up. 

SPDIF is the type of connection used between a normal CD player and your Insight DAC. (You're using the coax version. There is also an optical version that uses Toslink. Your CD player or your DVD player might have jacks for Toslink. They often have little plugs stuck in them to keep dirt out.) There are also other devices that use an SPDIF connection too, not just CD or DVD players.

AES/EBU is another spec for digital connections. It is more often used in professional equipment, and the cables for it have XLR connectors on the ends.

So RMS has an Insight DAC, which takes an SPDIF digital input, and he also has a Lynx soundcard in his computer, and the soundcard has an AES/EBU output. He needs a method of converting, and a couple of people offered tips on that.

Make sense now?

As for replacing the chips in your equipment, it really isn't hard. You just have to be careful. But do send your equipment back to Frank if you'd rather. It's not like it's a massive amount of money to have him do it. Yes, you'll have to wait for the delivery man to return your prized possessions, but think of how happy you'll be the day they arrive!

[rajacat]

Jitter is a hobgoblin supported by some reviewers and also by makers of gadgets that claim to reduce or eliminate jitter.

In reality, it is not even certain that jitter is audible in most cases. I also have not seen any proof that jitter is worth worrying about with modern equipment.

Turkey,

So are you saying that since jitter doesn't matter then the cheapest DAC will sound the same as the most expensive DAC? It's all just digits after all.  So why should one invest a grand in a very good DAC such as the Insight when there are a number of DACs available for less than $250?

-Roy

[BrianM]

So are you saying that since jitter doesn't matter then the cheapest DAC will sound the same as the most expensive DAC?

This doesn't follow at all. I doubt that's what he's saying.

It's all just digits after all.

No, the digital part of "D/A" is just digits; there's also the analog part. And more than one way to skin either cat, I'm guessing.

[rajacat]

What is he saying?

"It's all just digits after all."  I was being ironical.
 Perhaps if turkey doesn't think that jitter is important, he should talk to Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio.
 

[turkey]

So are you saying that since jitter doesn't matter then the cheapest DAC will sound the same as the most expensive DAC?

This doesn't follow at all. I doubt that's what he's saying.

It's all just digits after all.

No, the digital part of "D/A" is just digits; there's also the analog part. And more than one way to skin either cat, I'm guessing.

It's all just digits until it gets converted back to analog.

There isn't much to be gained while still in the digital realm. The hardware is mostly quite good, and the differences inaudible at best.

However, once you start converting the signal to analog there are certainly differences, and this is where Frank does his magic.

[turkey]

Perhaps if turkey doesn't think that jitter is important, he should talk to Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio.

No thank you. I have absolutely no desire to talk to him nor to buy his pixie dust products.

[rajacat]

Perhaps if turkey doesn't think that jitter is important, he should talk to Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio.

No thank you. I have absolutely no desire to talk to him nor to buy his pixie dust products.

Wow! You'd certainly wouldn't qualify for the diplomatic corp.

[turkey]

Perhaps if turkey doesn't think that jitter is important, he should talk to Steve Nugent at Empirical Audio.

No thank you. I have absolutely no desire to talk to him nor to buy his pixie dust products.

Wow! You'd certainly wouldn't qualify for the diplomatic corp.

Probably not. On the other hand, I haven't bearded the lion in his own den. I won't go into his circle and say what I think.

In fact, I probably will never mention him again.