London Decca Jubilee cartridge

TheChairGuy · « **on:** 16 Mar 2009, 10:32 pm »

Curious among cartridges for the past 60 years is the London Decca cartridges...that have virtually no cantilever to speak of

Having found Grado's much to my liking (also moving iron types like the London's) and slightly preferring high-output for the convenience and purity of the transmission line...so, I've been curious about the London Decca's for some time

They sound best in damped arms I've read, something the Grado's prefer so it's at hand...but, wanted to know if anyone out there had any direct experience with them?

I ended up buying a gently used Jubilee (newest series) today as my interest was piqued. Moving Coils haven't floated me to another astral plane, so I've largely ended my quest (for now) for an MC that sounded as spectacularly natural as a Grado does.

It's the most I ever spent on a cartridge by quite a margin (gulp!) and hope it's worthwhile

Ciao, John

orthobiz · « **Reply #1 on:** 16 Mar 2009, 10:40 pm »

So, is this what you do with the money I sent you!???

Paul

Wayner · « **Reply #2 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 12:43 am »

Is this the same London "Decca" records company?

Wayner

planet10 · « **Reply #3 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 01:49 am »

Quote from: Wayner on 17 Mar 2009, 12:43 am

Is this the same London "Decca" records company?

Yes.

A good Decca can sound quite special. But the factory production quality & consistency was ALL over the map (ie no 2 cartridges were the same). A buddy has 3 that he sent off to the Garrott Bros. and they are all consistent and very good. He is currently running an Oracle with a Schroder clone.

dave

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #4 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 03:54 am »

planet10/dave
It's (well, slightly used, but the newest batch made in the past decade) a new London Decca I bought. It's supposed to be much more consistent quality and way less jiggly body. Like every other cartridge, it's no longer a cheap purchase, tho

Paul/orthobiz
Actually, the proceeds from the sale of the VPI HW-19 MK. III/arm & cable are going to 50% cover the cost (and room) of the new VPI Classic coming out for $2500.00. It should ship to me in a month...it's been on a 2 month delay thus far. I'm down to only 3 tables until it arrives

I had sold several items in the past several months and my PayPal account was bulging. I've thought many time about the London Decca's and took the plunge today. Gulp

John

John Casler · « **Reply #5 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 04:04 am »

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 16 Mar 2009, 10:32 pm

Curious among cartridges for the past 60 years is the London Decca cartridges...that have virtually no cantilever to speak of

Having found Grado's much to my liking (also moving iron types like the London's) and slightly preferring high-output for the convenience and purity of the transmission line...so, I've been curious about the London Decca's for some time

They sound best in damped arms I've read, something the Grado's prefer so it's at hand...but, wanted to know if anyone out there had any direct experience with them?

I ended up buying a gently used Jubilee (newest series) today as my interest was piqued. Moving Coils haven't floated me to another astral plane, so I've largely ended my quest (for now) for an MC that sounded as spectacularly natural as a Grado does.

It's the most I ever spent on a cartridge by quite a margin (gulp!) and hope it's worthwhile

Ciao, John

Just became a Decca dealer a few months ago when I picked up Roksan TT's, and getting familiar with the line.

The Jubilee shows a list (MSRP) of $2875!!! and is next to the top "REFERENCE" model.

Interested to hear your thoughts, since I haven't heard them since the cows came home.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #6 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 04:19 am »

JohnC...it'll play on a JVC DD I bought for $400 (including arm)...so somewhere in there the lunacy balances out

No step up needed....right into my full-function preamp for minimal intrusion and shortest paths. The way I enjoy vinyl best

Will know by the weekend....John

rayr0683 · « **Reply #7 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 06:31 pm »

WOW..............VPI CLASSIC.....im a huge VPI fan myself. i love the look of the new classic, only saw a quick pic. which arm are you going to use on the new VPI? Ray

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #8 on:** 17 Mar 2009, 07:07 pm »

Quote from: rayr0683 on 17 Mar 2009, 06:31 pm

WOW..............VPI CLASSIC.....im a huge VPI fan myself. i love the look of the new classic, only saw a quick pic. which arm are you going to use on the new VPI? Ray

The one they supply with the table...the new 10.5i (slightly revised than the standalone one they sell as it does not have on-the-fly VTA). It saved them $$hundreds to simplify it this way and meet a better price point...yet it is still a solid arm according to VPI.

I've been on the wait list now for about 3 months....so when it happens, I'll be pleased.

The HW-19 is such a moose of a value (especially when you minimize the effects of the so-so motor with the SDS unit) - I've never had a TT in my possession that had a larger soundstage than it. That alone makes it formidable in my book

John

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 01:10 am »

London Decca Jubilee in the house...will mount carefully

in next few days.

Nice, overkill packaging:

Damn kinky looking...if you cannot see a cantilever, it's because there is none

John

rayr0683 · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 01:31 am »

John,
Everything you have is beautiful. The new VPI Table, the Decca cartridge, etc.... I have had all VPI since the 80's..I worked up to a VPI HW19 MK.IV and I prefer to keep the Table Suspended, I didn't remove the Springs, and I prefer it that way. I have a very nice ZEta Tonearm, with Silver Vandenhul Wiring. I have the original tnt Platter and Bearing, not the newer clear acrylic one. Mike told me that my Table was just becoming too expensive to manufacture. Can never go wrong with VPI. Best of luck with that new beauty, decca Cartridge. Ray

Quote from: TheChairGuy on 19 Mar 2009, 01:10 am

London Decca Jubilee in the house...will mount carefully in next few days.

Nice, overkill packaging:

Damn kinky looking...if you cannot see a cantilever, it's because there is none

John

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 01:50 am »

It's funny that you say 'beautiful' in connection to my assortment of vinylphilia here, Ray...I do generally have kid gloves with my equipment (smoke-free, too), but not everything I own is beautiful.

Example #1 (have barf bag handy

)

It does sound quite good, tho

All in the name of science

John

Ian · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Mar 2009, 09:20 am »

I am playing a Garrott decca and have for many years. In fact purchased my 2nd a few years ago ... not a Jubilee but the older "tin can" type. this was supplied new/ rebuild with micro tracer stylus and is an excellent performer.
It is mounted in a JH formula 4 arm which is a low mass unipoint damped arm.I have stiffened the plastic "head shell" a little, dampened the "ti can" body with a small quantity of plasti-tack between the body and the head shell and I am very pleased with the result.
Ian

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 06:39 pm »

Well, I got her hooked up now.

Perhaps it's not fully broken in at (claimed by original owner) 25 hours, but I'm not terribly impressed with it right now. It bears some attention to VTA and stylus offset I realize, and breakin may be needed....but I would not consider what I'm currently hearing a US$2800 (new) cartridge.

It doesn't sound terribly realistic (Grado takes top honors there), neither the bass goes as deep (Grado best here, too) or the highs as extended (Grado and Ortofon X5-MC among my batch take top honors there) and it doesn't have the clarity of any of the MC's, the Grado's and certainly not the Pickering XLZ-7500s.

Above all, the sounds are kinda' small...likely a reflection of it's very high 2000 ohm internal resistance. There's just not enough signal piped thru for ultimate pleasure. A certain immediacy it does have (like the stubby cantilevered Pickering...only moreso), but it's not enough to pronounce it a great cartridge in my book.

I'm not damning it to hell...the final break-in point still may be in the offing...but I'm not thrilled with it thus far

It's a bit steely sounding, much as I have read...I have also read that it likes 33K loading. Personally, while correct loading changes the experience slightly for the better, it has never made a wholesale difference to me. The character of the cartridge still underlies it no matter if loading is correct or not (I have found).

So far, I'd put it up there with the Denon DL-160vdh...which is a bit better than mid-pack among my experience. They sound completely unlike one another, that's just where it falls in my prospective list of entries. The lack of sufficient treble extension and or quality would probably make a few Moving Coils better...as they share a kinda' similar crisp, steely sound to them.

But, time will tell. I just call 'em as I hear 'em...irregardless of cost or general consensus among audiophools. My opinions expressed are not meant to shock or offend anyone

Ciao for niaow... John

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 07:23 pm »

Time will tell, indeed. Another couple hours on this cartridge tells me it's still in break-in phase

The small images are getting larger, there is more dynamic pop to the music now, the tizz is abating, the overall sonics are gaining clarity, etc. Typical cartridge break-in signs

It's not my brain breaking in, it's the various cartridge elements doing so.

More to come...thank goodness

John

Berndt · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 08:23 pm »

John, you must try my DIY 6sl7 phono stage.
You just have to pick it up at my house

From my garrott experience this is an interesting cart for me.
regards, bill

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 11:58 pm »

Ohhhhh, I luv how you dangle that bait, Bill

Trap me in your lair and you know I will not escape until I own some Audio Kinesis speakers

You can also come here....all the better when I get (eventually) the VPI Classic and put the London on it's damped arm. The VPI Classic pays considerable homage to the Empire TT's of old. I've been on the waiting list for it for almost 3 months now, tho

John

chosenhandle · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 01:20 pm »

As a suggestion, you may want to consider contacting the builder in the UK. He provides good service on his products.

The London cartridges are so different in design and philosophy that perhaps he can give you some pointers on tweaking the cartridge to get the most out of it. I have heard the Jubilee and Reference and thought both were outstanding. But, folks that had one told me it really took a lot of tweaking to dial it it. I was considering one, but after a conversation with the builder, I came to the conclusion my set-up was not ideal for the cartridge.

Sure is a fun cartridge. Pretty sure you are the only one on the block with one!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #18 on:** 23 Mar 2009, 04:00 pm »

There seems to be nuthin' wrong with the cartridge...it just needed break-in time. After about 5 hours I'm not playing the soundtrack to 'Star Wars' (I'm on a soundtrack kick of late)

It just BEGS to be heard loud...it's not easy background music to work thru

I think after using a damped arm, and if you can set loading at 33K, the rest of the tweeks are rather nuanced. I have it at bog std 47K and it sounds fine (with about 150pf of capacitance - between the recommended levels of 100-300pf).

I also have the arm set at it's lowest for VTA (fortunately this arm is VTA adjustable). Without any cantilever, the unit is pretty squat top to bottom...so you need to lower the arm generally for correct VTA. It's a line styli, so azimuth (or, yaw or cartridge angle offset) needs to be right, too.

Not sure what delights are in store for the future, but what's here is now quite enjoyable

John

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #19 on:** 3 Apr 2009, 10:48 pm »

Well, it's probably broken in now...and still sounds about as good as a Denon DL-160vdH (which would set you back about $400 if you supplied a new Denon to Mr. van Den Hul)

I'm trying to reach it's maker in the UK to see if they can give it a once over to see if something is wrong...as it doesn't sound like the cartridge many reviewers gloat over.

Frankly, for US$2895 it's a poor value. Approximately 4 cartridges I own sound as good or better for 7x less, on average. The cartrdige sells for almost 40% less in the UK, so value quotient is better there.

It is by no means a stinker...it's VERY good. It doesn't make my swing, tho, and I had high hopes it would

John