[richidoo]

It's kinda like learning to ride a bike. You get better at it with time and practice. You will learn so much about the importance of speaker placement, about your room, speakers, what's important to you.  Your ears will improve by listening for the bass lumps, and by hearing how good your speakers can sound.  I ended up not using it "by the book," but what I learned did improve my placement a lot.  The textbook Master Set position was very fun and exciting. Sometimes I wish I could switch between two spots with the remote control button.   

[stvnharr]

Hi, I've been reading and planning to try this for a short while now. My setup makes moving speakers a bit tedious as the amps are in the basement and the speaker cables come up through the floor. But with some temporary re-arranging I'd spend an afternoon or month for better sound anytime. Just wondering if I'll be able to hear Master Set speakers at RMAF this October? If so I'll get lots of pix and ask too many questions aa If anyone else is going to be there we could pool resources and maybe get even more insite.

Soundings is not listed as an exhibitor at RMAF in the exhibitor listings.  However, the store is only a couple blocks east of the Marriott, and may be a better place to hear a Master Set.

[gsm18439]

Are there any guidelines for speaker separation when performing Master Set? Hoe do I know if I have them too far apart or too close together?

Thanks

[Listens2tubes]

Made a couple calls today. First to Sumiko. They were cordial but firm about needing to have or purchase on of their line to have MS done and would take my info if any dealers decides to take on outside work. I then asked abour RMAF and was told Soundings was not far away which I already knew from this thread. Next I spoke to Chris at Soundings. He said they are 3 blocks from the Marriott and decided to keep things where they are and have us show up there. I guess I'll be arriving home about the same time as the Sonus Fabors I'll be sucked into   neeeding before I leave the mile-high city.

I'm feeling light headed already!

[stvnharr]

Are there any guidelines for speaker separation when performing Master Set? Hoe do I know if I have them too far apart or too close together?

Thanks

The first step in Master Set is to do the above. You move the speakers together or apart, as need be, to get the most solid mono image. You can do this either with the voice on BOARH or any mono recording. A lot depends on the room dimensions and the size of the equilateral triangle positioning that you start with.  I've found it best to have the speakers closer together rather than farther apart if it's difficult to determine the best spacing.

[Listens2tubes]

My speakers are currently not toed-in toward the listening position. I actually just straightened them from crossing in front my nose about a month ago. I am always set in an equalateral triangle. Currently they are 30" to the center from the side wall and 100" apart. When straight the image well and project a wider stage. I plan on bringing them in to 96" apart before toe-in during MS, which will lead to more side offset. Check my site for a better picture of what I'm up against/talking about. The room is 13.5' x 22'.

[bummrush]

   Is MS a type of set up that tries to approximate near field listening,while done i n a considerably bigger sized room.

[stvnharr]

   Is MS a type of set up that tries to approximate near field listening,while done i n a considerably bigger sized room.

Not really, however the speakers will at first look that way.  You can sit anywhere you like if it's perfectly done.

You can read up on it here: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64321.0

[stvnharr]

My speakers are currently not toed-in toward the listening position. I actually just straightened them from crossing in front my nose about a month ago. I am always set in an equalateral triangle. Currently they are 30" to the center from the side wall and 100" apart. When straight the image well and project a wider stage. I plan on bringing them in to 96" apart before toe-in during MS, which will lead to more side offset. Check my site for a better picture of what I'm up against/talking about. The room is 13.5' x 22'.

I think it's best if you just visit Soundings when you go to Denver and have a look/listen.
Once you have a listen, you'll just want to have your speakers set up the same way.
Btw, nice work on the phones.

[Listens2tubes]

Thanks Steve that's my plan. As for the phones, I'll be bringing my Grado HF-1's to RMAF for Can Jam

[stvnharr]

Hello,
Last weekend I attended the 6th Annual RMAF in Denver. I made the rounds at the Show and spent a considerable amount of time at Soundings.  Rod had open house in the evenings, and it was a nice place to have a show break on Saturday afternoon. The store was not affected by the power outage that shut down the show for awhile, though the lights did flicker. 

It was good to finally hear a professional Master Set in a nice listening room. The speakers were the Vienna Acoustics Die Musik's that Rod had at the show last year. These speakers have quite a few adjusting screws to get the fine tuning down perfect.  After all the show sound and getting somewhat tone deaf by noon, it was really nice to hear distortion free music and relax.
I picked up Rod's latest "blurb" on Master Set, and there are some things I'd like to share here on this thread.

Master Set is an extension of the work done by Sumiko that they developed into MASTERS, an acronym for Modal Acoustic Simplified Training Electronic Retail Specialist.
Master Set works with the understanding that we hear sound based on a pressure change on our eardrums and NOT the distance we are from the speakers. The idea is to place both speakers so that each one pressurizes each of your ears with the exact same volume at the exact same time. When this is done, you have a single source of sound to the ears and the elimination of the small phase distortions from the two speakers being set so that the sound from each pressurizes each ear at slightly different times and volumes.

I also learned that I have been using the WRONG set up disc for the past year.  The version of Ballad of a Runaway Horse on the Famous Blue Raincoat reissue is not the correct version of the song to use for Master Set. You want the version from Rob Wasserman's DUETS.  I have just this morning re-done my Master Set with the correct set up disc and can confirm that it is much easier to hear the needed sounds, especially in the bass line. And when you move the second speaker out to match the anchor, the voice line really centers up well.
There is only one new addition I found in the setup steps, and that is at the very first, while setting the anchor speaker just turn the other speaker, the one against the wall, about 45 degrees away.


Oh, just one more thing.  I have often been asked about Master Set with dipoles, electrostats, and the like. So I specifically asked Rod if he had done a Master Set on any of these types of speakers. And his answer was the his Third Master Set was on a pair of Martin-Logan electrostats. So, yes, Master Set does work with speakers other than forward firing cone speakers in a box.

Enjoy Your Master Set

[jhm731]

I also learned that I have been using the WRONG set up disc for the past year. 

 

[AKSA]

Gratuitous, cheap shot, JHM.

It was the same music, same artist, just a different recording.

Hugh

[JakeJ]

Hi Steve,

I just scoured Amazon and did not find a Rob Wasserman disc titled "Duos".  I did find one titled "Duets" and it has "Ballad of the Runaway Horse" on it.  ASIN: B000025MUM.

Is this the disc you mean, or is there another?

Thanks,
Jake

[stvnharr]

Hi Steve,

I just scoured Amazon and did not find a Rob Wasserman disc titled "Duos".  I did find one titled "Duets" and it has "Ballad of the Runaway Horse" on it.  ASIN: B000025MUM.

Is this the disc you mean, or is there another?

Thanks,
Jake

Yes, that's the one.
I've corrected my post.

[stvnharr]

I also learned that I have been using the WRONG set up disc for the past year. 

 

So, what's your problem?????

[JakeJ]

His head hurts from continually banging his hand on it.




(Disclaimer: feeble attempt at humor.)

[jhm731]

I also learned that I have been using the WRONG set up disc for the past year. 

 

So, what's your problem?????

[stvnharr]

I also learned that I have been using the WRONG set up disc for the past year. 

 

So, what's your problem?????

Are you referring to me or to Master Set?

The Wasserman version of the song makes it easier to do the setup than the Famous Blue Raincoat version.  "Wrong" was maybe an ill considered choice of a word.

If you are referring to Master Set, then it is YOU who is WRONG.

But this thread is not about arguing over the plausibility of Master Set, you can contact Sumiko directly or Soundings in Denver for that.   
This thread is only for giving assistance to those who attempt to try to do it on their own. 

[soniram]

Hi Steve,

by "...turn the other speaker, the one against the wall, about 45 degrees away." do you mean "toed out" 45 degrees ?