OB dual sub servo placement

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EARGASM

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Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #20 on: 2 Mar 2009, 03:53 pm »
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« Last Edit: 25 Sep 2009, 04:05 pm by EARGASM »

Danny Richie

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #21 on: 2 Mar 2009, 03:59 pm »
 :roll: I guess I really need to spend a few hours drawing this up as well. I'll get on it as as soon as I can.

dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #22 on: 2 Mar 2009, 07:36 pm »
Quote
Yes, but us idiots need a box plan to do that.


See two different cabinet plans at the bottom of the page.

http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=139

I think his point was that it's not for a dual driver one box sub.

Yep, thanks Seth. Although, I have been known to ask stupid questions.

Stereodude

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Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #23 on: 3 Mar 2009, 12:14 am »
Yep, thanks Seth. Although, I have been known to ask stupid questions.

I'm in the process of building one myself.  I'm going opposing drivers like Mark Seaton's Submersive.  It looks like it will end up 24" x 18.5" x 18.5".

corndog71

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Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #24 on: 6 Mar 2009, 01:12 pm »
So I guess the OB sub won't work in a small room then?

My room is 11' x 12' with the stereo set up on the long wall.


I was really looking forward to building this sub but I guess now I have to deal with reality again. :duh:

So how good in comparison is the FR sealed servo sub?  I'm currently using a little Definitive Tech. SB80 which is an 8" slot ported sub.  It has a surprising amount of output but sometimes I feel it's lacking in clarity and control.

Any other suggestions are certainly welcome.
« Last Edit: 6 Mar 2009, 03:48 pm by corndog71 »

Stereodude

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Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #25 on: 6 Mar 2009, 11:47 pm »
So how good in comparison is the FR sealed servo sub?  I'm currently using a little Definitive Tech. SB80 which is an 8" slot ported sub.  It has a surprising amount of output but sometimes I feel it's lacking in clarity and control.

You should get a good amount of room gain in a room that small.  I'm in the process of building a sealed dual 12" in a room 9.5' x 11' x 9' room.  :icon_twisted:

dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #26 on: 14 Mar 2009, 10:17 pm »
I am going to give one more try at trying to work in the OB, then go with a dual sealed box if that doesn't work. :)
I think a ceiling mount might be ideal for these. Something along the lines of how a ceiling fan is mounted, drop it down off the ceiling and out from the wall. Any idea of what kind of bracing/support would be required in this application?

dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #27 on: 16 Mar 2009, 07:47 pm »
I am going to give one more try at trying to work in the OB, then go with a dual sealed box if that doesn't work. :)
I think a ceiling mount might be ideal for these. Something along the lines of how a ceiling fan is mounted, drop it down off the ceiling and out from the wall. Any idea of what kind of bracing/support would be required in this application?

Found it. :)
http://www.chiefmfg.com/productdetail.aspx?MountID=34
Anyone know how heavy (2) SW-12-16FR in Danny's W frame are?

mcgsxr

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #28 on: 16 Mar 2009, 07:54 pm »
Interesting link.

Were it me, I would use an L shaped baffle such as the ones you have seen in this thread, and mount the flat piece directly to the ceiling - rather than leveraging a mount such as in the link.  If you mount it directly to the ceiling, then the driver "sees" the whole ceiling as a part of the baffle, and you gain some reflection too.

Just my thoughts.

dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #29 on: 16 Mar 2009, 08:03 pm »
Were it me, I would use an L shaped baffle such as the ones you have seen in this thread..

I am no expert, but I thought the open baffle frames are either W or H shaped? I am referring to this one:
http://www.gr-research.com/pdf/obsub.pdf

mcgsxr

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #30 on: 16 Mar 2009, 09:52 pm »
Sorry, I was referring to the test mule L shaped ones I have seen - must have been in another thread.

For H shaped, you could still afix the "top" to the ceiling directly.


dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #31 on: 16 Mar 2009, 10:01 pm »
Sorry, I was referring to the test mule L shaped ones I have seen - must have been in another thread.

For H shaped, you could still afix the "top" to the ceiling directly.

Oh, okay I am with you. I saw that thread the other night, I haven't spent much time in the OB forum.

Just had another idea. Danny has a wall mount omni-directional speaker:
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=113
I wonder what would happen if you wall mounted an OB sub halfway up the wall so that it was firing down into the floor and up into the ceiling. Might be an interesting experiment...

fcraven

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Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #32 on: 16 Mar 2009, 10:54 pm »
I've been thinking about a coffee table OB Sub...Which a very heavy glass top (might bring too much bling).

dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #33 on: 16 Mar 2009, 11:32 pm »
I've been thinking about a coffee table OB Sub...Which a very heavy glass top (might bring too much bling).

That's a great idea, that is one piece of furniture that always goes in the middle of the room. :)

Have you heard the GR OB sub? If so, how do you like it compared to your sand-box? I would really like to figure out a way to do the OB, but if not I will do that dual sand-box.

TRADERXFAN

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Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #34 on: 17 Mar 2009, 11:57 am »

Just had another idea. Danny has a wall mount omni-directional speaker:
http://www.gr-research.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=113
I wonder what would happen if you wall mounted an OB sub halfway up the wall so that it was firing down into the floor and up into the ceiling. Might be an interesting experiment...

If I understand what you mean, I believe that would not be very successful. The OB woofers actually need to face you. Its not like a regular monopole sub where the LF really wrap around the box. In OB they cancel to the sides, at some frequencies.

See this link for some great illustrations
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/rad2/mdq.html

-Tony

dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #35 on: 17 Mar 2009, 03:46 pm »
If I understand what you mean, I believe that would not be very successful. The OB woofers actually need to face you. Its not like a regular monopole sub where the LF really wrap around the box. In OB they cancel to the sides, at some frequencies.

See this link for some great illustrations
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/rad2/mdq.html

Cool, link thanks.
It looks like if one side was mounted to the wall, then the opposing side might not cancel anymore. Don't know what that would sound like, but the idea is that you get the sound from the reflections of the radiated waves off the ceiling and the floor. Just like the av-1rs except you are also getting floor reflections and whatever would happen with that wave that was previously being canceled. In theory might work, but someone needs to try it to see it works in practice.

Danny Richie

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #36 on: 17 Mar 2009, 11:27 pm »
Quote
I wonder what would happen if you wall mounted an OB sub halfway up the wall so that it was firing down into the floor and up into the ceiling. Might be an interesting experiment...

The output cancels at 90 degrees off axis. So you'd get nothing. Keep in mind that the open baffles subs push air from one side of the room to the other side of the room.

Quote
Have you heard the GR OB sub? If so, how do you like it compared to your sand-box?

They both sound exceptionally good, but the open baffle version does not load the room.

dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #37 on: 19 Mar 2009, 02:19 am »
Quote
I wonder what would happen if you wall mounted an OB sub halfway up the wall so that it was firing down into the floor and up into the ceiling. Might be an interesting experiment...

The output cancels at 90 degrees off axis. So you'd get nothing. Keep in mind that the open baffles subs push air from one side of the room to the other side of the room.

Well, nothing like physics to ruin a good idea.  :surrender:

Quote
Have you heard the GR OB sub? If so, how do you like it compared to your sand-box?

They both sound exceptionally good, but the open baffle version does not load the room.

The problem I have is that every time I hear you describe the OB bass it sounds like just what I want. I would love to have great bass without rattling the walls (or the neighbors). Of course, if there is no good placement option for me it wouldn't sound good anyway. :banghead:
The sandbox will probably be my best bet and I am sure I will love it when I build it.

thomasjefferson

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #38 on: 19 Mar 2009, 05:53 pm »
I built a huge OB sub using 4 drivers.  The amp and drivers are from Rythmik but it’s not a servo system.  These were non-servo drivers that Brian had on sale.  Drivers are 4 ohm and are wired in series-parallel, which wouldn’t work for servo anyway. 

Sorry no picture in this post, somehow I can’t figure out the “insert picture” ritual.  My design is a long folded baffle, so the drivers line up one behind the other while the baffle zigzags between them.  Pairs of drivers move toward each other on-axis, facing front-to-back, to minimize vibration.

I had the idea that a coffee table sub would resolve the placement issues of a small room, because it will always be away from walls.  I think that could work pretty well but you need to know a little about the nature of OB sound in the room.  There’s a very noticeable difference to sound intensity depending on how near you are to the speaker, and the character of the sound changes as well. 

With a coffee table, the listener is very near the speaker and you’ll want to hold down the volume to avoid overwhelming that front-center location.  From that sweet spot the sound quality can be tight and deep, but the intensity and depth fade if you’re further away.  I also find that bass is heavy and blurred within a few feet of the boundary walls, and it’s almost nonexistent near the center of the room.  Also the frequency response will change depending on placement, so you should ideally have some way to EQ, and more than the 1-band on the amp. 

My room is L-shaped and I ended up placing the sub upright at the bend of the room, against a wall.  This way it faces forward toward one leg of the room, and backward toward the other leg.  This probably minimizes dipole cancellation because the front output can escape pretty well from the back.  Using a tone generator I get considerable output down to 14 Hz, and an alarming earthquake simulation at 8 Hz (huge cone motion, nothing audible from the speak but my sliding closet doors nearly jumped off their tracks).

Here are some conclusions based on this project:

One: there is a special quality to OB bass and I think the difference has to do with delayed energy from inside a speaker box.  The OB bass has a pulsating texture that massages the eardrums, and this texture gets squashed inside a typical box.  If you get your setup right it’s pretty great.

Two: people say it’s hard to get deep output because of dipole cancellation.  Nonsense, you need to try harder.  In hindsight I could have used a driver with half the x-max, or else I need to move into a larger space. 

Three: the big 12” woof is surprisingly heavy, and my sub has four of these plus the amp.  The weight is ridiculous, and some of you people are talking about hanging things from the ceiling.  Don’t do 4 in one box and don’t hang more than 1 from the ceiling.

Four: dual subs (separate boxes) cost more because you need two amps, but the benefit is you can balance the output.  Placing one sub at the left wall, the bass output will be lopsided.  Note that this is especially true for OB.  The ideal placement for one OB sub would be front-center, and that’s probably hard to reconcile with your wall boundaries.

Five: if you want to keep it simple, do a box sub in the corner.  Much easier to make that work.  Tried and true.

=TJ


dvenardos

Re: OB dual sub servo placement
« Reply #39 on: 19 Mar 2009, 06:20 pm »
Thanks TJ, that was extremely helpful.  :thumb: