[Reverie]

Hey all,

I could use your vast sea of experience, hardened knowledge and steaming recommendations to help me take my tripath addiction into its next location - my car. After completing my own 41hz modular project based around a battery powered Amp4 (with a variety of other jenson PIO cap input, output caps, inductors and wiring changes), I am now addicted to the result, and would like to create/aquire a baby device that would fit in my very modest automobile - a Ford Fiesta (2000 reg).

Now of course, love has not made me blind, at the end of the day I am after a CD (or MP3 Hard drive) player that offers an extremely good sound quality, be it Tripath or otherwise, I simply thought mentioning my experiences may give an incite to the 'sound' I desire. I would love to dive into another project (Amp 9 maybe?) but if I put into it as much thought as the previous one (neigh on 3 years in both design and construction) it will not be ready in a rush. Perhaps more to the point, I've heard that amp pack is not quite as 'ironed-out' as the rest. Of course, I might be wrong with this, so please jump right in and correct me if you're bowled over by this pack.

If anyone can suggest a piece of equipment I might like to indulge myself in, be it tripath or otherwise, I would be very grateful. Suitable car speakers to make the most of this would also be powerful knowledge.

I understand I'm being extremely vauge here, but any pointers however general would be invaluable. It's hard to stick a budget on this - my previous project was done on a value rational - while some components were a tad on the pricey side, I only included them if I could warrent their use, and even then, they were aquired from the cheapest of the cheap venders. The final piece was not cheap, but obsecenely good bang for the buck. I'd take the same approach here.

If you need any other info please just ask.

I've yet to publish a finished report on the whole thing, but details of my progress from being inspired by a sonic T to mid stages in my design can be found with a bit of searching on here, 41hz and diyaudio if you do so desire.

Thanks to anyone who can post,
Peter

p.s. I had a quick scan for What HiFi type magazines but exclusively for car audio. But nothing. Shocking. Then again they do tend to exclude the underdogs too much for my liking.

p.p.s. If this is in the wrong catagory, mega sorry, a correction would be appreciated.

[Audioclyde]

I'll throw my 2 cents out, as I'm kind of a car audio nut; my local dealer/friend/installer actually entered my ride in a national competition last Labor Day and did pretty good, especially as I've stuck with 'stock' locations for speakers.

The first and IMHO most important item is to install a good sound deadener product (I use Damplifier Pro from Second Skin) everywhere you can, but certainly in the doors, and if possible floor & roof.

For speakers I'm a huge fan of Hybrid Audio Technology "Legatia" line.  They aren't cheap, but they aren't outrageous either, and sound very good.

As far as amps go, I use Zapco, as their amps have built in digital xovers and equalizers.  Some of the new Class D amps that seem to be very good are by Arc Audio and their 'mini' line is just that, tiny and will fit in a lot of tight spots, run cool and sound great.

For the front end, I probably am not a good sounding board--I run a pretty high end McIntosh HU, and have a Wadia Itransport in my car (my ride has a built in AC converter)--I pull the digi signals from my Ipod (wav/AIFF noncompressed files only), and feed it to the digi input of the McIntosh.

And then of course there is the whole world of car subs   !!


Good luck!

Randy

[richidoo]

You're in luck! - kinda....  Tripath was developed specifically for car stereos. Many commercial head units and amps used Tripath chips. But.... Tripath went bankrupt in 2007, so only old stock or used gear available. You could call Crutchfield to ask what they have left - or use these links or google for model numbers to search eBay for used gear.
http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/reviews/20040720/tripath_interview.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_T_amplifier

You might find some traditional (bipolar) audio chips sound as good or better. I don't know what amp chip Honda used in 2000, but it sounds awesome. I am pulling the head unit out of my van when I sell it. Even the Altmann BYOB amplifier uses a car stereo chip, and it is among the best amps I've ever heard.
Good luck

[hayden]

Blaupunkt and a few others made Tripath amps (I've got a few in the garage.)  I really liked the way they provided lots of power in a small package, and sounded very good.  I believe they used the same high power modules as some of the home products like the Amp 7T.  Good luck in your project.

JP

[dweekie]

Do you have a preference on power supply that would limit your choices?

I suppose if you're really liking the Amp4, you could change the voltage sensing components to allow for 12V operation if you don't want to go with any external power supplies/regulators. 

I built the Amp9 Basic.  It is the latest Amp9 design, and it is definitely "ironed out" in my opinion (especially compared to the Amp4  ).  If the power level is acceptable, it is a simple setup that sounds better and more dynamic than the TA2024 and TA2020 chips at the same voltage.  V-bro uses one in his car.  http://www.41hz.com/Forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1694&whichpage=1

Once you step into external power supplies, I guess anything goes....

By the way, I'm still waiting on your Amp4 mod thread..... 

[Reverie]

Hey everyone,

Thanks for your fantastic replies. I can see now a few criteria I probably should have speculated earlier. Basically, there are a few other factors constraining my purchases:

a) Weight. The ol' Fiesta is not stunningly powerful at the best of times, so I'd ideally like to keep additional weight adding to a minimum. As such, I'd like to run the device of the car's 12V. If this is likely to have a significant deprivation on sound quality do raise your hand.

b) Space. I haven't got buckets of the stuff, so using your usual spare space - doors, boot, under seat would be best.

So, I guess you could now say I'm looking for 2/3 components:

1. A CD Player with amplifier unit, preferably one featuring tripath technology, but if not, one that is of a fiiiiiiine sound, and additionally has a good quality line out as one of its fortes. Even if I go for the Amp9 (one of my hold backs was that V-bro stated it has a bit of a high pitched whine that he cannot completely remove), I will need a device that can read CDs (and maybe MP3 files if your device of choice has a HD onboard) to feed the input into it. I'd also say I'm not looking for anything ground breaking in terms of power. Anything that goes as high as a standard stock car radio would be adequate. Direct links to reviewsites/venders/threads would be handy.

2. The speakers. I'll check out those mentioned soon, but as stated earlier, those that do not require cabinets (I'm pretty sure most car ones don't) would be best.

3. Accesories and cable - if it's light weight, I like the sound of this padding. If people know of decent cable designed specifically for cars this could be handy, if not I'll opt for some narrow hifi stuff.

An abridged post I know but I'll try and get back to you with more personal replies soon.

And of course, some words on the Amp4

Thanks again,
Peter.

[Reverie]

Anyone have any comments at all?   

[Rocket]

Hi Audioclyde,

I use 4 channel focal amplifier in my car.  Is this amp any good?

I also have 8 inch focal mid/bass driver in rears and polykevlar 6 inch splits in the front with alpine hu.

Regards

Rod

[Jim N.]

I run one of these:

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=482

Small footprint, runs cool. Installed under the front passenger seat of my Camry.

Have 4 MB Quart speakers (I'll have to check what models but it's near their top of the line) and an Alpine DVD head unit that plays DVD-A discs (I rip my own using Wavelab but Cirlinca is a cheap alternative). No sub as I get plenty of bass from the deck mounted speakers. Sounds good to me....

JL Audio, MB Quart, Focal makes pretty nice stuff. I am guessing that you don't want the system cost to be higher than the blue book of your car .

[Audioclyde]

Hi Audioclyde,

I use 4 channel focal amplifier in my car.  Is this amp any good?

I also have 8 inch focal mid/bass driver in rears and polykevlar 6 inch splits in the front with alpine hu.

Regards

Rod

Rod,

Focal is well respected in car audio--I like their really high end speakers, but they are pricey.  I honestly haven't had the chance to spend much time listening to their amps, so can't really given an opinion on them.  A great site is DIY mobile audio, with forums that folks with a lot more expertise than me frequent.

I've ran Alpine HU's and they can be really nice; personal preference and features become the issue IMHO--Alpine with certain amp/spkr combinations can be a little to 'bright' for my taste, but I tend to like a really smooth, somewhat warm sound (in car audio and home); others absolutely love the incredible detail that an Alpine/focal setup can produce.

But its all fun; I had a blast redoing my truck with a real hi end audio system (and it can cost a heck of a lot less than home audio upgradeitus  ).

Have fun!

Randy

[dyohn]

Head unit: Eclipse or Alpine.  These are the only two brands I recommend these days if high SQ is the goal.
Amp: The best small, light amplifier available is one of the Alpine PDX series.  These use IcePower technology.
Speakers: Perhaps the most subjective part of the equation.  My best suggestion is to go shopping and buy what sounds good to you from a local retailer.  I do not like the sound of Focal car audio as their metal dome tweeters can be harsh and fatiguing.
You did not mention a subwoofer.  There are several small solutions that can fill in the bottom two octaves if you are interested.
Electrical system upgrade.  You may need to replace the alternator and upgrade the big 3 electrical wiring to get satisfactory results.  The Big 3 are the cables between alternator and battery, battery ground to chassis, and engine ground to chassis.
Proper installation using the correct wiring harness adapters and speaker baffles, and proper sound deadening treatments for door panels, etc, will make the system perform to the best of its capabilities.

[Reverie]

Head unit: Eclipse or Alpine.  These are the only two brands I recommend these days if high SQ is the goal.
Amp: The best small, light amplifier available is one of the Alpine PDX series.  These use IcePower technology.
Speakers: Perhaps the most subjective part of the equation.  My best suggestion is to go shopping and buy what sounds good to you from a local retailer.  I do not like the sound of Focal car audio as their metal dome tweeters can be harsh and fatiguing.
You did not mention a subwoofer.  There are several small solutions that can fill in the bottom two octaves if you are interested.
Electrical system upgrade.  You may need to replace the alternator and upgrade the big 3 electrical wiring to get satisfactory results.  The Big 3 are the cables between alternator and battery, battery ground to chassis, and engine ground to chassis.
Proper installation using the correct wiring harness adapters and speaker baffles, and proper sound deadening treatments for door panels, etc, will make the system perform to the best of its capabilities.

Thanks for this big slice of knowledge pie. 

I'm now looking over the suggestions, but one thing stuck out at me when I glanced over head units - is it possible to get a head unit that also features a tuner? In my typical audio useage, it's not something that is hugely used, but certainly would be missed if absent.

[Reverie]

You did not mention a subwoofer.  There are several small solutions that can fill in the bottom two octaves if you are interested.

Also, on this note: I have been basing a car-audio set-up on the intention of replicating my HiFi system at home. Admitedly, this may be naive, as cars are no doubt very different enviroments, but, I use a custom-made tripath amplifier, an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card but most importantly, two stereo Monitor Audio BR2 speakers.

The short of it is - I've never found the need for a subwoofer in my home, so is it fair to say I'm not likely to feel the need for one in a car? I'm assuming, but when sound dynamics are considered, could well be wrong.

[dyohn]

Thanks for this big slice of knowledge pie. 

I'm now looking over the suggestions, but one thing stuck out at me when I glanced over head units - is it possible to get a head unit that also features a tuner? In my typical audio useage, it's not something that is hugely used, but certainly would be missed if absent.

Almost all car audio head units feature an AM/FM tuner as well as the ability to accept satellite radio and HD radio modules.  Some have HD radio built in.

BTW the only car audio amps using Tripath that I know of are from Blaupunkt and Panasonic.  Neither of them sound very good, IMO.

[dyohn]

You did not mention a subwoofer.  There are several small solutions that can fill in the bottom two octaves if you are interested.

Also, on this note: I have been basing a car-audio set-up on the intention of replicating my HiFi system at home. Admitedly, this may be naive, as cars are no doubt very different enviroments, but, I use a custom-made tripath amplifier, an M-Audio Audiophile 2496 sound card but most importantly, two stereo Monitor Audio BR2 speakers.

The short of it is - I've never found the need for a subwoofer in my home, so is it fair to say I'm not likely to feel the need for one in a car? I'm assuming, but when sound dynamics are considered, could well be wrong.

The automobile environment is VERY different from the home.  In fact, most of what works in a home does not work well in a car.  The geometry and materials and the harsh acoustics of driving down the road create an extremely challenging situation.  Using a sub is mainly about personal taste.  I find that using a subwoofer to reinforce the bottom two octaves is much more necessary in a car than in the home. The silly boys with big boom cars have created a bad impression about car audio subwoofers.  They don't all have to sound like that.  Mine are simply used to extend the FR of my Eclipse main speakers down to about 24Hz.

[mcgsxr]

In a car door, there is little to work with, so the speakers that you install in them are usually not capable of producing much bass.  A sealed sub in your trunk/hatch will work wonders.

For the record, I use a Panasonic head unit, Zapco component speakers, an old school Orion (before they were bought) amp, and a sub.

In the past I have enjoyed Memphis Audio amps, JL component speakers, and a Fosgate sub in a sealed box.

+1 on the upgrading of the wire recommendation.

Cars are very different indeed.  I have very rarely heard the quality and quantity of car bass, in a house.

[Reverie]

OK everyone, I've had a good hard long think about this and I'm going to suggest a different challenge.

Not to say all your advice/recommendations are wrong, more that I'll save them up for later in life. Basically, I'd like to have a sound system that replicates that which I have at home, this much is true. However, I'd rather not make a botched job of it in a car I will almost certainly not have for a long period of time. Not only would that be a poor use of money, but the Fiesta is hardly a car designed to support such a system anyway. After university and when I hopefully move on to a job, I will aquire some more serious funding and a longer-term automobile, in which, I will be able to enact my sonic dreams.   

So back down to the present day - I understand you are all quite used to high budget specifications, but would you be able to have a go at spec'ing a budget system for me? Something along the lines of the following:

• Speakers, to the quantity, location, and size you specify
• A head unit - again I'd rather have quality over functionality - if it sounds better but only plays CDs and radio tuner, this would be much better than the whole MP3/digital radio/HD fandango
• Any dampening material you still feel worthwhile investing in.

I can probably supply high quality cables of my own stock.

This time, with a budget of say, £100-£200. Higher specs will of course be considered if a case of much better value can be made.
Again, considering weight as a factor too. Although I imagine at this cheaper end it will not be such a big deal.

In a car door, there is little to work with, so the speakers that you install in them are usually not capable of producing much bass.  A sealed sub in your trunk/hatch will work wonders.

The use of the trunk/under-seats is all game with me. Although of course, I doubt investing in a sub-woofer is justified at this new price range.

Go work some magic 

[EthanH]

Given your goals and budget, I think you should focus on cheap component speakers that will sound good off of radio power - Memphis' old PR series of components would fit the bill, or Pioneer's yellow coned components.  As far as head units go, for some reason I tend to like the sound of Clarion for the money, even though their technology is not that impressive - if you want something better that will grow with your system then I'd recommend Eclipse.

I think a nice budget system would be Clarion HU; Memphis PR components; dampening material in doors; plus maybe a used amp (old Hifonics, Phoenix Gold, Zapco, PPI, US Amps, Memphis, etc.)  and sub from a decent brand like JL or Eclipse or Memphis, etc.. 

[Reverie]

Given your goals and budget, I think you should focus on cheap component speakers that will sound good off of radio power - Memphis' old PR series of components would fit the bill, or Pioneer's yellow coned components.  As far as head units go, for some reason I tend to like the sound of Clarion for the money, even though their technology is not that impressive - if you want something better that will grow with your system then I'd recommend Eclipse.

I think a nice budget system would be Clarion HU; Memphis PR components; dampening material in doors; plus maybe a used amp (old Hifonics, Phoenix Gold, Zapco, PPI, US Amps, Memphis, etc.)  and sub from a decent brand like JL or Eclipse or Memphis, etc.. 

Thanks for your input EthanH!   

So in the second paragraph, just to clarify, the amp is optional, yes?

And where would you recomend purchasing each of the various components from? Are there recognized second hand internet sites?


EDIT: Or just local shops?

[Reverie]

As far as head units go, for some reason I tend to like the sound of Clarion for the money, even though their technology is not that impressive - if you want something better that will grow with your system then I'd recommend Eclipse.

Something like the CD5425E?