Vinyl Newbies - this is in your topic to chime in

twitch54 · « **Reply #100 on:** 15 Jun 2009, 02:47 pm »

Might be worth a 'read' for anyone interested............

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/technical-articles/426-a-secrets-technical-article.html

yes, just another Lp vs. Digital article but........there is some good info there.

Thebiker · « **Reply #101 on:** 28 Jul 2009, 02:09 am »

OK, so who ever said I rushed into things....the advantages of retirement.

I have had my MMF 7.1 / 2400 Goldring cart and Jolida 9A with Tungsol tubes running along for just over 5 months. Wow. I can't believe that I waited soooo long to get back to spinning vinyl. This is fed into a Cary SLI-80 and out to a pair of Paradigm Studio 20's v.3. Stunning. All the air and claity I could ask for and with a dual 10 inch powered sub for the heavy lifting, the whole range is good. Could it be better...sure, but it would cost more than I can invest for that extra 5-7%.

With a good stock of NOS vinyl that received TLC back in the day, music is heavenly.

Walt

Miney · « **Reply #102 on:** 26 Sep 2009, 09:56 pm »

This is the no-dumb-questions section right?

Lately I've been picking up a lot of new and NOS LPs encased in shrink wrap... I've seen some sellers make a deal about how it's still in the shrink, presumably as an indication of cover quality. But are there any risks to consider in retaining the wrap? Could it damage the cover, etc.?

BTW I am religiously employing poly sleeves for protection.

Thx

Paul

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #103 on:** 27 Sep 2009, 03:25 am »

Paul/miney,

I'd like to think (and duly hope!) that this is an all questions are fair game circle...not just topic

Sooooooo....

After a time the outer shrink wrap will warp the album covers as, over the years, paper/cardboard will naturally pick up moisture from the air. The shrinkwrap won't allow for proper expansion.

So, if anything....a NOS LP with folly sealed, original shrink wrap on an album cover may be worse (or at least as bad as in a different way) than slit shrink wrap (which at leaves some wiggle room for the album cover to expand) or none at all.

That said, I'm not that picky about my albums - have bought NOS/original shrink wrapped albums - and they look fine.

But, you are a bit

more detailed than I am (or most

) and may see the difference.

John

Adarsh · « **Reply #104 on:** 9 Dec 2009, 11:04 am »

I'm a newbie exploring several avenues which I can hopefully delve into.

I've been thinking seriously about vinyl recently since I heard a couple of recordings. Now, i'm fairly young so you'll excuse me if my earliest exposure to audio dates only as far back as the Philips Compact Cassette.

So then it would be no surprise that I was blown away by the sound of vinyl. Nothing like CD - what have I been doing all these years?

Anyway, the few recordings that I did hear were on YouTube. Now, I don't know if this is true but the output is so distinct, so warm and vibrant and which can ALL be heard through a high quality YouTube video, for example: http://www.youtube.com/user/mingrey1975#p/u/30/_XYHukKv7zY

My question is how come CDs don't sound like this? If I can hear these details through a digital (and somewhat poor medium like YouTube), why aren't CDs made to sound like this?

Thanks so much guys, I'm so perplexed and quite ready to jump on the vinyl bandwagon aa.

-A

Wayner · « **Reply #105 on:** 9 Dec 2009, 02:00 pm »

The CDs sound can be directly related to the quality of the transport mechanism and to a much greater extent, the digital to analog converter and filtering systems employed by the CD player manufacturer. That is why many audiophiles go the separates route, using a dedicated D/A converter fueled by the CD players digital outputs.

LPs can suffer from the same outcome if the turntable platter itself is exposed to noises, vibrations and magnetic fields. If the arm and cartridge are a poor choice or mal-aligned, the results can be worse then a less then spine tingling CD player.

Wayner aa

twitch54 · « **Reply #106 on:** 13 Dec 2009, 01:42 pm »

and ....to further what Wayner has just said.............'mastering...mastering and mastering' , when it's done right CD's can 'magical' as well.

laserboi · « **Reply #107 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 08:55 pm »

Well Folks, I'm getting married in July and my future Wife would like to know what I want as a wedding present. Our new house allows me to mount the TV on the wall so now the top shelf of my custom component stand can now support a turntable rather than a big flat panel. I've decided after doing much research here that I want to start with a KAB SL1210 M5GSE. My question is two parts...

1. What modifications do you guys feel are worth the money? For example, I'm 99% sure I will be going with the fluid damper but the other options really throw me for a loop.

2. What would you recommend for an entry level phono preamp that I can use with the rest of my system in the ~500 price range?

Thanks you and regards,

Pete

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #108 on:** 20 Feb 2010, 10:36 pm »

I can't comment on the table but I have heard that the Jolida phono pre is quite good! And not very expensive.

Scottdazzle · « **Reply #109 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 12:21 am »

I can vouch for the Jolida phono preamp, but you MUST replace the stock tubes. They're horrible.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #110 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 02:43 am »

laserboi,

What cartridge would you or do you use with your Technics? If you are using a moving coil, they generally don't need fluid damping. If you use a Grado or many moving magnet brands, they tend to respond to fluid damping better.

Note the italics, as nothing is set in stone, unfortunately

You may be better of spending on the outboard motor upgrade from KABUSA or maybe a new upgraded bearing available from a few folks today....for your finite resources.

As for outboard phono pre....vinyl is generally best enjoyed with as short a transmission line possible I've found. So my first recommendation is ALWAYS a full functioned preamp with phono rather than an outboard pre that adds another couple RCA jacks and loads of additional lengths of transmission for feeble cartridge signals to try to plow thru.

Of course, dependent on setup and budge, it isn't always possible to incorporate a full functioned pre into the system.

Simple really is best with vinyl...and helpful for digital (tho not nearly as helpful as the signal is a rather robust 2 volts from source) usually, too.

John

laserboi · « **Reply #111 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 05:15 am »

Thanks for the help/suggestions.

Chairguy, I plan on using one of the Grado cartridges with the longhorn mod from Wayner. I must admit, albeit it probably is obvious but this is my first venture into vinyl. I understand what you are saying about the pre but my Candela lacks that feature unfortunately. So am I correct in understanding that the Grado Long Horn would benefit from the fluid damper? I am also confused on the outboard motor that you mention. I was unable to find this option on the Kab website and was wondering if you meant "PS-1200 Outboard Power Supply( Includes Socket Above and SX1200 ) $250.00 [more info]?"

Miney · « **Reply #112 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 03:08 pm »

Quote from: Scotthobby on 21 Feb 2010, 12:21 am

I can vouch for the Jolida phono preamp, but you MUST replace the stock tubes. They're horrible.

Ditto and ditto here.

Quote from: laserboi on 21 Feb 2010, 05:15 am

I was unable to find this option on the Kab website and was wondering if you meant "PS-1200 Outboard Power Supply( Includes Socket Above and SX1200 ) $250.00 [more info]?"

Here's a link to the power supply. Been considering myself...

http://kabusa.com/ps1200.htm

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #113 on:** 21 Feb 2010, 03:25 pm »

Quote from: laserboi on 21 Feb 2010, 05:15 am

Thanks for the help/suggestions.

Chairguy, I plan on using one of the Grado cartridges with the longhorn mod from Wayner. I must admit, albeit it probably is obvious but this is my first venture into vinyl. I understand what you are saying about the pre but my Candela lacks that feature unfortunately. So am I correct in understanding that the Grado Long Horn would benefit from the fluid damper? I am also confused on the outboard motor that you mention. I was unable to find this option on the Kab website and was wondering if you meant "PS-1200 Outboard Power Supply( Includes Socket Above and SX1200 ) $250.00 [more info]?"

laserboi,

Oh yes, a Grado (even with the Longhorn mods) will and does tend to benefit mightily from fluid damped arms. Grado's run underdamped or perhaps undamped internally....and the arm damping helps

You should hear tighter/ tauter bass among other things with your Grado on a damped tonearm.

Using a Grado cartridge on a Technics SL-1200, that would be my first upgrade to get (a fluid damper). It's among the least pricey, too, and you can install yourself.

As time and budget permits, you can then look at the outboard motor supply (and strobe disabler) as miney points to and even upgraded bearings that purportedly improve things further. About 3/4 of the way down the following page you can see all the upgrades available from another source of Technics upgrades in the UK. The main bearing upgrade is something you can perform yourself - even if you are not particularly DIY-inclined:

http://www.soundhifi.com/sl1200/index.htm

Don't hesitate to ask questions here or in another post at Vinyl Circle. Vinyl is not plug in and play and you have dozens or perhaps hundreds of folks here that have many years of experience that can help you along in the learning process.

John

laserboi · « **Reply #114 on:** 22 Feb 2010, 02:57 am »

Thank you again to all who have responded to my questions. I will keep reading and learning from all of the experts here. I will definitely take a look at the Jolida phono pre.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #115 on:** 2 Jul 2010, 12:42 am »

As the last newbie question on this sticky was February 2010...please ask away.

There is NO question too dumb to ask here about vinyl. None, zero, zip, zilch, nada, nothing

Fire away newbies - it is with you that the future of vinyl rests

John

drphoto · « **Reply #116 on:** 17 Jul 2010, 01:46 am »

A member who is following my return to vinyl sent me a PM asking a great question which is "would you do it again?"

I thought long and hard about this and sent him a really long reply.

I'll try to distill it down a bit.

In MY case, I would have been better off spending the amount I have put into vinyl (deck, cart, cleaners, iso, etc) into upgrading my speakers.

I firmly believe that speakers matter the most. Everything else is just icing on the cake. I have Merlin TSM-MMe's which are a very nice small 2 way monitor, along w/ a pair of GR Research OB subs (Hframe) and a Mirage sub. Yes, it's a nice full range system. But the subs can't fix the lack of dynamics in the midrange area, that many reasonably priced speakers exhibit.

I probably should have sold the Merlins, and combined with the money I spent on vinyl and acquired a much better speaker.

However. I love the sound I'm getting from my little Rega deck. It far surpasses my expectations. With a good record it is pure magic. And I have a better than average digital source. But I don't even have it hooked up at the moment.

So....would I do it again? Hell yes. But I should have waited until I fixed what I want from a speaker.

If you like/love your current setup, but find something lacking, then vinyl may be your answer. But it will not magically turn your run of the mill rig into something great.

Modern analogue rigs and cleaning methods make surface noise far less of an issue than I remember from 30 years ago. But it will always exist to some extent. You must accept that.

BTW: I like the whole process involved w/ vinyl. It makes playing music seem like an event. But that's just a quirk of mine. Most people would probably prefer to just push a button and get what they want on demand.

Letitroll98 · « **Reply #117 on:** 17 Jul 2010, 02:24 am »

Quote from: drphoto on 17 Jul 2010, 01:46 am

BTW: I like the whole process involved w/ vinyl. It makes playing music seem like an event. But that's just a quirk of mine. Most people would probably prefer to just push a button and get what they want on demand.

Oh no, quite the contrary, many of us feel exactly as you do, the process is a big part of the experience. Something left so cold when just plucking in a CeeDee or whirring up a server. When I play records for my GF I'm so disappointed when screwing down the clamp and brushing off the lp she says, "Oh, I'll be right back when you're finished, let me know when the music starts." I want her to see the whole ritual prep that makes it so special, she of course could care less.

As far as speakers go I disagree with you, in a fashion. Yes of course speakers make the biggest sonic impression and difference, right behind the room. But you'll never achieve synergism in your system without a proper front end, you must start with the source and work down. Like you, I didn't used to believe this, but as you move up the chain in quality components, this becomes more self evident. It's almost as if you can't be taught this, you have to learn it from experience, which is of course too late for you on that system, but the information can be used on the next. Thus we all have closets full of unused audio gear, mostly turntables and other front ends.

bside123 · « **Reply #118 on:** 17 Jul 2010, 03:00 am »

I am also a believer in a good front end. It's been my experience that great speakers cannot make bad source components sound better. On the contrary, it seems that a good front end can make even modest speakers operate at their best... getting the most possible from them. Of course, really good front end equipment will eventually have one evaluate everything downstream.

My other experience confirms what many have said regarding system synergy. It takes a lot of listening, experimentation, listening, patience, walking away, coming back, listening and listening. I've often been pleasantly surprised to hear how something unexpectantly wonderful happens when the right equipment comes together in a listening space. Much of the time this phenomenon has little to do with spending mega bucks.

The other point, that has been pointed out many times, is the music. Sometimes the memory of my "record player," from 4 decades ago, exceeds the enjoyment of my current "audiophile system" if I am obsessing and constantly listening for defects in my current equipment. It's quirky when trying to bridge the gap between improving the performance of a hifi system and loving the music.

Maybe it would be interesting to pose the question: What do you really listen to more... music or the components?

drphoto · « **Reply #119 on:** 17 Jul 2010, 03:02 am »

While I do believe in the 'garbage in/garbage out' philosophy, I'll stick to my guns that a truly great system starts with speakers. This is a fairly recent observation BTW.

And yes, the room is part of the system, and the speakers must match. You can't shove a line array into a tiny space and expect it to work. But I think what makes a speaker universally good, is that it minimizes the room interactions.

But that's a whole 'nuther subject, not related to TT's and vinyl.

But w/ regards to vinyl. I'm enjoying music now more than I have in years. And the hunt for good records just adds to the fun. I'm thrilled w/ the discovery of my new indie dealer here in town. 3 of the 4 I got (for a mere $5/ea) sound spectacular.