[joschmo]

Hi,

I wanted some advice as I am new to the vinyl world.  I have a technics 1205 (standard arm) with bearing mod and kab fluid, at 440mla and black cube se phono.  I like what I am hearing but have not really been wowed over my digital set up (audial nos dac).  I have not been able to do a proper dbx test and have thought of buying a tvc with dual volume but don't know if I want to go that far. I prefer listening over a longer period of time to get a better feeling for each medium.  I wish I could say what I wanted out of vinyl but my concern is throwing in more cash for more reward. My ideas for upgrades would either go the technics sp route or lenco route with something like a trans fi arm. Like to spend less than more. Also open to changing cartridges instead of going whole hog. A lot of coffee has gone into this post so if any clarification is needed just ask and any help just ask and any help is greatly appreciated.  I am happy with the rest of my system (2 gedlee speakers one danley sh 95 trinaural processor and pioneer amp, thanks James Romeyn your posts led me to some real audio enjoyment).  Sorry my table is a 1210m5g.

[Wayner]

Joschmo,

The first thing you could do is align your cartridge differently. The SL1210 spindle to pivot distance is 215mm. Technics supplies an alignment tool that puts the stylus at 15mm overhang. This puts the first null point into the label area. It also has a rather large harmonic distortion curve at the beginning of the record, because of this alignment.

To achieve a Lofgren B curve, I suggest you change the overhange to 18.282mm and align the cartridge at 70.285 and 116.604mm. This may liberate the sound somewhat. I also recommend tracking the AT440MLa at 1.5-1.6 grams, not the 1.4 recommended. SRA adjustment may be another consideration. I have my SL1200 VTA set at the number 4 position. This translates to a 92 degree SRA (Stylus Rake Angle), which is the optimum position for this cartridge.

Wayner

[Wayner]

BTW, I measured the arm weight for my SL1200 the other day (you do this by removing the counter weight and measuring the weight of the arm at the headshell (minus the cartridge) and it was 15.7 grams. With the weight of the AT440MLa at 6.5 grams, that puts the total arm weight at 22.2 grams. With the AT having a compliance rating of 10, the resonance frequency of the arm is at about 11 hz. That is what makes the AT a nice fit for the Technics.

Wayner

[ricmon]

The trinaural processor may be the problem  I remember reading some where on the net that spoke to the tuning problem with vinyl play back.  I couldn't find it but with a little vigilance you should be able to.

good luck

Ric

[joschmo]

Thank you both, Wayner you have a pm.  I do remember reading that review Ric but I still have hope and the proof of others enjoyments.

[ricmon]

Thank you both, Wayner you have a pm.  I do remember reading that review Ric but I still have hope and the proof of others enjoyments.

I hope you get it all worked out.  I have been very curious about the Triaural processor.  Keep us posted.

Ric

[Sam-fi]

To get a new thought going. Does a TT weight make a difference? Meaning what benefits can I expect if I were to spend $30 to put .76 lbs right in the center of my spinning record.

Also, my current vinyl setup is about 3 times more expensive than my cd and they sound similarly good. All in all I think I have a good balance going.

I have a rega p2 with grado gold - purchased new this year.

Thanks,
Sam

[TheChairGuy]

To get a new thought going. Does a TT weight make a difference? Meaning what benefits can I expect if I were to spend $30 to put .76 lbs right in the center of my spinning record.

Also, my current vinyl setup is about 3 times more expensive than my cd and they sound similarly good. All in all I think I have a good balance going.

I have a rega p2 with grado gold - purchased new this year.

Thanks,
Sam

Hmmm, I see no one answered Sam's question here, including myself, terribly sorry about that - generally we have scores of seasoned vinyl enthusiasts chiming in on a question.

I, personally, have found very modest benefits from a center weight.  It serves to press the record itself a little flatter against the platter and would damp the record to a slightly lower frequency (which is generally desirable).  But, all in all the effects are worth no more than $30 you mentioned.

However, an outer record clamp is and can sometimes be remarkable effective.  It takes the benefit of an inner clamp, pressing record flatter and record damping and MULTIPLIES it with increasing the inertia of the spinning platter with weight held at it's edge.  Outer rings can improve tracking often dramatically thru it's combination of virtues including significant warp reduction of your vinyl (plastic) record.

The combination of an inner and outer record weight will most often prove best of all.  But, for you with a modest set-up and budget, you may find the financial outlay more than the benefits from it.

For those of us with invested sums in advance of your front end, or hungering for better sound even at any sane cost, the $350+ it may cost to get a fine inner and outer clamp is worthwhile.

Here's a great source for outer rings (I have one myself and am very pleased): http://www.ttweights.com/480_gram_alloy_outer_ring.html

John

[TheChairGuy]

Dear Vinyl Newbies

We, the long-in-the-tooth vinyl fans understand and empathize with your frustration at dialing in your rig totally

We lose ourselves in our preferred medium and sometimes forget the beginnings of our (often) long journey into vinyl. It takes some level of knowledge to get the best from your rig...much more so than line sources.

I/we want to invite you to enjoy your vinyl thoroughly, and invite you to pose any question in this topic that has been vexing you and that has not be answered adequately as yet (here or in any other forum). 

There is no question 'too stupid' to ask here, no ridicule will be pointed and no hazing ritual allowed If you don't have a question, just pop in and say 'hi'.

If you don't have a turntable, but are thinking about it...feel free to flesh out your many ideas here if they have not been fully flexed otherwise

Ask away here in this topic if you have not the inclination to make a topic of your own here...and you will get many helping hands here to guide you at the Vinyl Circle.

Thank you,

John / TheChairGuy
Facilitator / The Vinyl Circle @ AudioCircle

(btw, anybody can post here in response to newbies...it's just mostly for newbies to chime in and post)

[e.man]

Hi

I have put a heavier headshell/cart on my TT.  Although each gets balanced in the setup it occurs to me that the heavier one having more mass will have more inertia.
In easy to understand words, what would this do to the sound ?
I have seen some threads that seem to be about this but they get much too complex for me.

[Jlappy]

e.man,  great question.  I'm interested in hearing folks' response.   out of curiosity what cart and arm are you using?  cheers,  Jim

[e.man]

e.man,  great question.  I'm interested in hearing folks' response.   out of curiosity what cart and arm are you using?  cheers,  Jim

I was looking for somewhere in 'Profile' or signature to note hardware.

This is on a JVC QL-Y5F TT with curved factory arm.  Am mounting Stanton headshell with Stanton 680 cart.

[JohnR]

I was looking for somewhere in 'Profile' or signature to note hardware.

Add it here and it will show up in the left section next to your posts:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=systems

[TheChairGuy]

Hi

I have put a heavier headshell/cart on my TT.  Although each gets balanced in the setup it occurs to me that the heavier one having more mass will have more inertia.
In easy to understand words, what would this do to the sound ?
I have seen some threads that seem to be about this but they get much too complex for me.

I see no one answered you, e.man, sorry about that.  I saw your post the other day, was busy and figured the other loudmouth vinylphools here would help you out.

Vinyl is a lot about trial and error.  Aside from fumbly fingers shearing off a delicate needle or cantilver - I encourage you to tinker to your hearts delight.

Adding a heavier headshell adds mass to an arm.  A low compliance cartridge (some with a cu of perhaps less than 15) would most often benefit from it.  Compliance, or cu, is mostly a function of the cartridge suspension system.

A lowish compliance cartridge doesn't want a light arm as the arm will 'move' more in sympathy with the cartridge as it tracks a record. A low compliance cartridge has less jounce (springiness) to handle a lot of arm movements.  A low compliance cartridge generally wants a heavier arm that moves less and would allow it to more capably track the grooves.

I'd simplifying matters a lot here (there are certain frequencies many vinylphools swear you have to tune your cartridge & arm to for the best sound, etc).  For the most part - try and hear the effect of a heavier headshell yourself. Your original headshell may well have been terrible - so no matter the disadvantage of adding a heavier headshell if you have high or medium compliance cartridge...it might STILL sound better overall 

Give it a try and enjoy the music 

[e.man]

So this 'compliance' is more about tracking than sound ? ( not getting too involved with tonearm/cart frequencies issues)

We are talking about "Cartridge compliance' here.  Should we really be saying 'Stylus' ?  I see on the Vinylengine database that the Stanton 680 and Ortofon carts have different compliance depending which stylus they have.

I have gone from Ortofon which is lighter with a higher compliance (cu) to heavier, lower cu Stanton.  I had an Ortofon OM running recommended VTF on my other TT and it did not track well.  This heavy Stanton setup has already tracked like a monster.

I have made a small screwdriver to get to the Azimuth screws under the tonearm so i can give it a proper run now.

[TheChairGuy]

To a great extent - tracking IS sound.

Your talking about a diamond needle buried in a mound of plastic scraping the minuscule side walls for retrieval of information...merely microns deep.

It's so archaic that it's a wonder we can get any sound, let alone decent sound, alone from it. Yet, somehow we not only get good sound, but we often get superlative sound out of it - STILL the highest resolution source extent today.

So, when you make a cartridge/arm a better tracking one...you have better performance overall.

Your Stanton is lower compliance and by adding the heavier headshell you gave it what it likely needed to excel at tracking - more mass (at least more mass than the Ortofon requires)

I'm no cartridge builder, but yes, compliance (or cu) is mostly, if not all, determined by the stylus assembly. Both the construction of the cantilever and the rubber or synthetic rubber suspension bits influence the cu.

Improving tracking is important to getting the best sound from your deck. But, there are a host of other considerations as well.

Keep in mind all the measurements out there won't tell you if YOU like what you're hearing.  Trust your hearing. If you like what you hear than it is indeed good 

Dem's da' rules   

[WC]

Sort of a vinyl newbee here. A couple years ago my wife gave me a Ion Audio record player for Christmas so I could digitize my LPs. I started digitizing the LPs without paying too much attention to the music. I recently just stopped because I actually sat down and listened to the record player. It sounds bad. I would like something better, which shouldn't be too hard to find.

So I am trying to learn about turntables (not record players). To me it is hard to determine what the difference is between turntables of varying prices. From what I read there are a few important things: the table, the arm, and the cartridge. How important are each of of those things? I was currently looking at the Pro-ject Debut III as an entry level table that would sound much better than the Ion audio.

[TheChairGuy]

Bumping this topic forward so wannabee' vinyl enthusiasts-in-the-making can have a topic to post ALL their questions in.

Post here or make your own dedicated post on a subject you care about 

John / Facilitator

[orthobiz]

I'm still a newbie at heart. Will be setting up a 10.5i VPI tonearm soon and am wondering about everyone's favorite azimuth adjustment methods. Right now I'm leaning towards the Fozgometer.

Paul

[DaveyW]

I'm still a newbie at heart.

Count me in on that one too Paul - Still learning and enjoying 

Will be setting up a 10.5i VPI tonearm soon and am wondering about everyone's favorite azimuth adjustment methods. Right now I'm leaning towards the Fozgometer.

Paul

To save on the squinting on first set up I tend to take a little digi pic just to help verify.
Pop the camera on a stand/tri-pod and take a head on snap (max resolution on macro).

I typically just delete them once set up, here's one I kept though of a Stanton 881S.
Probably not the best pic I've taken (normally get in a little closer), but you should get the gist.



The hardest part is getting the camera to focus on the diamond - this takes a little patience.

I use one of those little 30x mini telescopes (inverted) to check by eye while setting up.
The Digi pic is a little over check.

Good luck and  look forward to hearing your thoughts once up and running.

Cheers
Dave