short notice get together

Berndt · « **on:** 18 Feb 2009, 04:06 am »

Howdy, I've finished my new phonostage and it is a beaut.
Will be demoing the empire project TT as well as some different amps.
Trying out some ho-made 300b's, a first watt aleph 30, a dual mono power supply hafler DH200, the wunderkind pioneer integrated that Dr Geddes runs, a plinius class A 100w job, and my stable data Jolida music envoys.
We will be doing primarily vinyl.

This Sunday the 22nd, beginning at noon.
Gunpowder chilli.
BYOB, or ?
I have a great new house in South SanFrancisco with plenty of room.
616 Grand Ave, SSF

Sorry for the short notice, love to see some new faces.
even the old ones

Berndt · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Feb 2009, 04:08 am »

more info...
Randall museum preamp
Audio Kinesis Jazz Modules
Galibier Design phono rack

Sonny · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Feb 2009, 04:25 am »

Bill, will try to make it and bring some of my i/c as well! Congrats on the phono...I may finish the Curcio phono pre as well on Saturday and if so, will bring it. What is your cartridge and gain?
T

Berndt · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Feb 2009, 02:05 pm »

Couple different carts, mm and mc.
Have a step up for mc.
Garrot Brothers Koala, MM
Dennon 103r , MC

GBB · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Feb 2009, 02:47 am »

Hi Bill,
I'd like to stop by if this is still on.
Want me to bring any phono equipment along for comparison? I've got some S&B MC step up transformers and a homebrew Pass ONO phono stage if you're interested. And of course I can bring some records.

Thanks,
---Gary

Berndt · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Feb 2009, 03:54 am »

Gary, bring what is handy.
We'll see how it goes.
Vinyl is requisite.
regards, bill

Sonny · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Feb 2009, 04:08 am »

bill, pls email me address, I will try to be there, what's the time frame?
T

low.pfile · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Feb 2009, 04:18 am »

Dang I miss another BillB Bash!

I already have plans for sunday. Have a great time all.

ed

Len_Dreyer · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Feb 2009, 04:22 am »

Hi Bill,

Have put out feelers to the significant OTHER. Hope to make it up to your place. Will let you know.

Len

Berndt · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Feb 2009, 03:51 pm »

my house is @

616 grand ave
south san francisco
94080

noon time till...

Sonny · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Feb 2009, 07:35 pm »

Bill, doesn't look like I'll make it today, perhaps another time when I am off work (after next week), I'll have lts of time!

Sorry and have fun guys!

T

Berndt · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Feb 2009, 12:51 am »

Will be posting pictures later tonight.
We had a great time, the 300b amps were surprising adequate for rock music on the Jazz Modules.
Jim was/is the happy recepient of the empire 208 project.
Jim's pioneer receiver was also surprisingly good, considering the group was diy tube guys.
Gary GBB brought a great sounding step up and was an asset to the further tuning of the dennon 103r.
By the end this cart was singing along.
Edwins 300b's seem to be a logical project for a new Randall Museum class.
Thanks for everyones attendance, it was a great way to spend a rainy sunday.
Missed you Tuan, and I have a set of your cables here as well as a record.
regards, Bill

Sonny · « **Reply #12 on:** 24 Feb 2009, 06:31 am »

Bill, thanks...
We'll have to get together soon.
I just couldn't get out there yesterday...sorry to miss it!
Will get the cables and record from you next time...

T

James Romeyn · « **Reply #13 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 06:12 am »

Bear, wine, pizza, chocolate cake w/ home-made frosting, bear, wine, did I miss anything?

Oh yeah, great music. Heavy metal & punk at live SPL. Also some nice Astrud Gilberto & great original blues played on a very old funky steel-string. All played on my new Bill Berndt-signature Empire 208 w/ Rega RB300/Origin Live Wire & brass counterweight. It is the most beautiful, functional & treasured object ever in my possession, & not by a small margin. I'll get pics hopefully tomorrow if no others are posted.

My CDP is among the best Red Book sources, a TRL-modified Sony 900 DVD/SACD (video deleted). The TRL is substantially better than a music server system played back on a custom tube DAC w/ an equivalent value of about $10k (heard earlier same day) on a humongous custom horn speaker, custom direct-driven 845 tube/output-transformer preamp & Cary 300B monos.

Comparing the Berndt-Empire 208 to the TRL: it would be almost impossible to overstate the fact that the BE208 just makes you want to forget about the entire Red Book format. That's about the best summary I can come up with. The TRL barely supplies half the live illusion, that ability to just sit down, forget about the system & become enraptured w/ the musical moment. You never want it to end.

I told Bill & still think, that type of musical experience could help people get well who are sick or injured. It sounds nuts but that's my position & I'm sticking to it.

Can't wait to get my straingauge cartridge installed tomorrow. Lots of loose ends since getting home late last night.

Edwin's 300B had the same pure almost hallucinatory magic in the treble (a little less in the mids) that I've experienced before in the Atma-Sphere & a friend's custom 300B. You can just taste the treble overtones like a desert. The experience MAY have tempted me to try the Atma-Spere again after the three bipolar ASA clones are completed.

Bill's BE208 TT has hugely rekindled my enthusiasm for the hobby. It will be great getting back into the vinyl, especially considering how much better is my collection vs. digital.

Bravo, Bill! Looking forward to doing it again early May when I visit for my daughter's second child (God willing).

PS: Debra demands Denise's chocolate frosting recipe!

PPS: Peter that was one sexy looking cartridge alignment protractor!

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #14 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 01:03 pm »

Allright now Bill (Berndt)...NOW I've got to hear your little Empire creation.

Jim's rave has my curiosity peaked (hey big Jim

) Get some pics going on your new treasure, will ya'?

Interestingly, VPI has a new table called the Classic out shortly. For $2500.00 (modest next to other offerings), Harry Weisfeld has already stated it's the most enjoyable table he's ever made (price not even considered).

His inspiration for the new table was none other than the Empire you've worked over

It's 'updated' in that it has the motor situated in the front left corner rather than rear (further from the tonearm base), an inverted bearing, 4 feedback eliminating feet and a 10.5" arm. But, the original inspiration for it is the old Empire series of tables

http://vpiindustries.com/table_classic.htm

John

woodsyi · « **Reply #15 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 04:13 pm »

Here is a picture from Bill's gallery that will warm TCG's heart.

Or should Bill have used plasti-clay?

I bet your room's sounding pretty good, Bill. I will have to swing out that way some time.

James Romeyn · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 06:57 pm »

I have longish TT history, starting w/ a Gerrard stacker, assorted other forgetables, then I sold SOTA TTs at the rate of about one every couple months for a few years, then became a Linny (LP12), then turned onto the glorious direct-drive linear-tracking servo-controlled Sony PSX-800 (absolutely blew away everything prior except for being less well isolated), then the Sony gave up after a while (unfixable) then a new Denon DP-59L (still have it, similar technology to the Sony 800 except for radial arm). The Denon may be a close second to the Sony overall.

I sing in Chair Guy John's chorus: a decent DD Japanese TT has a speed stability making it more enjoyable to most belt drive tables. Still, I assumed & was quite certain there were some reeeeeallly costly, super-well engineered production belt-drivers that could compete w/ the best DD tables in speed stability.

I know Allan Perkins pretty well from his SOTA days, so made a point to listen to his latest greatest $20k Spiral Groove SG-1 table & $6k arm (he makes only one arm) at CES '09. The SG-1 is perimeter belt-drive. His sound, employing the modest & musical $2500/pr Sonics By Joachim Gerhard standmounts (manufacturing just moved from Europe to Berkeley, bravo Allan!), was among the very best vinyl playback I've heard. His table weighs 70 lbs & is NOT suspended.

The same Sunday of Bill's gathering I also heard another great vinyl system (Micro Seiki table, FR arm, above described huge custom horns, etc.)

This sounds arrogant but it's not meant to. After doing this for some time, you get confidence to hear through various system components & make conclusions. The more you have heard certain pieces of hardware in various systems, the more confidence one has in one's conclusions. Meaning you can come to make conclusions about hardware even though it's not your system & it's not your room.

I'd put the performance & musical impact of Bill's table/arm right up there w/ Allan's $26k rig. I'd assume in a direct comparison Allan's would be preferred, but wouldn't be that surprised if it wasn't.

This is in no way a criticism of Allan's Spiral Groove vinyl system, which is nothing but superlative. It is rather a statement about Bill's engineering in the plinth, sub-base, etc. And the overall goodness of the Rega (this is the first arm I suggest to Bill) with the two or three upgrades.

There are always many ways to audio nirvana. But as of this moment, regarding TT philosophy, I'm sitting pretty heavy on my favoring of:
High mass
NOT suspended (high-mass is especially critical for isolation of unsuspended tables)
High torque (the Empire motor is about 10x-20x larger than any TT motor I've seen)

Stereophile March '09 mentioned that Harry Weisfeld (VPI principal) has about 10 Empire tables; he loves the torque provided by the washing machine sized motor. Hard to argue w/ a guy who makes his living designing & manufacturing highly respected tables.

The Berndt-Empire BE-208 weighed 64+ lbs w/ Rega arm.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Feb 2009, 07:20 pm »

Quote from: ro7939 on 25 Feb 2009, 06:57 pm

There are always many ways to audio nirvana. But as of this moment, regarding TT philosophy, I'm sitting pretty heavy on my favoring of:
High mass
NOT suspended (high-mass is especially critical for isolation of unsuspended tables)
High torque (the Empire motor is about 10x-20x larger than any TT motor I've seen)

I right there with ya' on those, Jim

Criminy...64lbs for Berndt's monster

John

Berndt · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Feb 2009, 07:15 am »

doesn't include the 4lb 6oz TA weight.
It has been a brilliant ride.
There is a new Black Sabbath heavy gauge reissue of the self titled album.

GBB · « **Reply #19 on:** 27 Feb 2009, 02:28 pm »

Bill,
Thanks for having everyone over last Sunday to play with the latest incarnation of your system. Your DIY efforts are truly impressive. The combination of the Audiokinesis speakers along with tube amps was sounding very fine. The Randall museum phono stage was an impressive addition and I was glad that the step ups that I brought along were able to complete the mix.
The step up transformers are the Stevens and Billington TX-103s - the copper version. The folks at Bent audio used to sell either the transformers for DIYers (that's what I own) or a finished version which they called the MU step up. If you stroll over to Audiogon you'll find that someone (not me) has a pair of the MU step ups for sale right now. They're not cheap but the price seems fair from what I've seen these sell for in the past. You can also find more information on the S&B website: http://www.stevens-billington.co.uk/page103.htm

I had the transformers wired up with the 1:10 step up ratio and I loaded the secondary with a 220K ohm resistor right at the primary. I found that this extra resistor helped tame the sound and gave just the right balance to the mix.

When running this with the Denon DL-103 on your system, I found that the ideal loading on the phono stage seemed to change slightly depending on which amp we used. The Jolida push pull amps, a slightly softer sound was needed and using the 25K input loading sounded best to me. With the 300B singled ended amps which are slightly soft already, I liked the loading at 35K. In general a higher load resistance with sound a bit brighter and a lower load resistance will tame that brightness. The right value is system dependent.

In terms of why you had hum with some of the other step ups and not mine, I can only think of two reasons. One possibility is how one wires up the grounds. I followed the suggestions shown on the JE Labs website, where there is a discussion about using vintage mic transformers as steps. You can see that here: http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/mic-mcstep-up.htm
If playing with grounding doesn't fix the problem then you might also be getting hum due to magnetic fields interacting with the transformers. This is easy to fix by moving the step ups away from any other transformers which might be creating the magnetic fields.

If you don't want to spend a lot on step ups, then the vintage mic transformers are a really good option. I've found that they're really sensitive to loading and you need to play with loading on both the primary and the secondary. Dave Slagle of Intact Audio suggests using a really high load on the secondary (>100K) and putting most of the load on the primary. I tried this with some Altec mic transformers and thought it sounded great that way - much better than with the load on the secondary.

All the best.
---Gary