The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier

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Tone Depth

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The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« on: 12 Feb 2009, 10:12 pm »
Several weeks ago I purchased two CDs ("The Very Best of Diana Krall", and "Closer The Best of Sarah McLachlan") and listened critically to them a number of times, noting the parts of each song that my system might be having slight difficulties reproducing.  I did the same with several other CDs I already owned.  I really enjoy listening to music on my system, and think that even though it may be bordering on Classic/Vintage; it presents the music quite faithfully, at least to my middle-aged ears.

The first AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier was delivered to my house last night, and today it replaced the 30-year old Van Alstine Model Two Amplifier in my system (My Equipment:  Denon DCM-370 CDP, Audio by Van Alstine Omega III EC Preamplifier, Audio by Van Alstine Insight Double 440H Amplifier, Tangent RS2 speakers).

I wanted to share with you my initial impressions from listening today to the two CDs, on the impact the Double 440H had on music played by my system.  I thought that Diana's voice seemed clearer.  Cymbal tone was more defined.  With brushed cymbals/drums I can hear the brush strokes; it doesn't sound as much like static.  Audience applause was also more defined; I could hear individuals clapping rather than just an audience clapping.  I could hear more tone definition of bass strings to the lowest notes, and I think I could distinguish string buzz from transient distortion.  On piano notes, I'm thinking I heard more of the rise in amplitude of the notes, especially from more sharply struck keys on the keyboard.

I noticed with Sara that I could hear her words in each song more clearly.  I noticed that I could hear the tone of drum shots, and more easily distinguish the different drums.  One interesting thing I noticed was the difficulty I had on maintaining focus on critical listening during this initial listening session, I found myself continually getting pulled into the music.

For my next listening session, I intend to listen to one song first using one amplifier and then using the second amplifier, before moving on to listening to the next song.  I intend to also do some double blind listening tests, once I recruit a volunteer or two.  This should be fun, thanks Frank!
« Last Edit: 18 Jul 2009, 07:20 pm by Tone Depth »

jhm731

Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #1 on: 12 Feb 2009, 11:40 pm »
Is this Insight 440H Serial# 111408A?

Tone Depth

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #2 on: 13 Feb 2009, 12:08 am »
Is this Insight 440H Serial# 111408A?

This amp has a different serial number.

JerryM

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #3 on: 13 Feb 2009, 01:53 am »
Nice review, Tone!  :thumb:

Congrats on your new amp! I look forward to reading your impressions of the upcoming comparison. Another fun one is to listen using the new amp for about one month. Then switch back to the old amp. When I did this my GF (who doesn't particularly share my interest in audio) said "What's wrong with your stereo?"

Have fun,
Jerry


martyo

Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #4 on: 13 Feb 2009, 09:25 am »
Congrat's "Double" cousin.  aa

boycephoto

Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #5 on: 14 Feb 2009, 04:07 pm »
Good morning Tone Depth ,
Is you Insight Double 440 an upgrade from a earlier version or a new unit?  If it was an upgrade what was the cost? 

I am interested to hear more of your comments and experience with the Double 440. 


Dave

martyo

Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #6 on: 14 Feb 2009, 04:47 pm »
Quote
$250 option at time of original build, $500 option for upgrade to existing Insight 440H amplifiers

The beginnings of the Double 440H start on page 3 of the Double Ultra thread.

Tone Depth

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #7 on: 14 Feb 2009, 06:35 pm »
The idea of an Insight Double 440H started in my head and was posed as a question with post #31 on page 2:  http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=63500.20

The turnaround time from question to the finished product being delivered to me was about three and a half weeks, fantastic!

Now I'm scrambling to find time for serious listening, life sometimes gets in the way.

Tone Depth

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #8 on: 17 Feb 2009, 09:43 pm »
For today's listening session, I listened to one CD track (Mussorgsky/Ravel:  "Pictures at an Exhibition -- The Great Gate of Kiev") switching back and forth between the Van Alstine Model Two amplifier (Two) and the AVA Insight Double 440H amplifier (Double) at the end of the track, and listening to the track a total of four times.  The song has some great dynamics, including some quiet sections where just a few instruments seem to be playing.  I'm listening today for differences in the music with the two amplifiers playing, including note attacks, side to side and front to back placement of instruments within the orchestral soundstage, and tonal realism.  Cymbal crashes are an example for me where I think I may have sufficient tonal memory at least partially compare the reproduction to a live performance.

At 0:25 minutes on the Two the trumpets seemed a little thin, and on the Double they seem a little fuller or smoother.  At 2:00 minutes the strings sounded smooth or full on the Two and the same on the Double.  At 3:23 minutes I like the low notes on the Two, and on the Double I can differentiate the tones of the string bass, and the bass drum.  At 4:05 minutes the glockenspiel and tubular bells sound distant on the Two, and located at the back of the orchestra on the Double.  At 4:34 minutes the loudest tubular bell hit occurs on the Two, whereas on the Double I can hear the overtones.  At 6:03 minutes the gong seems to be located at the back of the orchestra on both the Two and the Double.

Thinking back, I may have been a little sloppy in my listening this morning, and deviated from my amplifier evaluation approach.  I should have listened more times on the Two to clearly identify parts of the song where my system might be having slight difficulties reproducing the music with the Two in the signal chain.  I will do more critical listening with the Two over the next two days, and then on Thursday morning will again switch to the Double and listen for discernable differences.
« Last Edit: 18 Jul 2009, 07:22 pm by Tone Depth »

Tone Depth

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #9 on: 19 Feb 2009, 09:33 pm »
I got back on track with my listening comparison of the AVA Insight Double 440H (Double) and the VA Model Two (Two) amplifiers over the past two days.  I listened more to one CD track (Mussorgsky/Ravel:  "Pictures at an Exhibition -- The Great Gate of Kiev") critically listening to the Two yesterday.  Today I switched back and forth between the Two and the Double at the end of the track several more times.  I confirmed that the cymbal shimmer following a crash has a sound reminding me of static, this must be some distortion.  I've noticed consistently with the Two, but the shimmer doesn't seem to break up with the Double.  Listening more to the low bass notes, again they seem not quite clear and somewhat fuzzy sounding with the Two.  These same low notes sound more melodic and clear with the Double.  I noticed successive notes by a struck triangle seemed to fade to the background with both amplifiers, and this must be part of the recording or mixing process.

I'm wondering, are these descriptions of my listening sessions are boring to read?  For me it is interesting, as I'm simultaneously both listening intently and resisting the urge to just sit back and enjoy the music.  My goal with this evaluation is to listen for and learn how the reproduction of the music changes with the substitution of these two amplifiers in the signal chain.

My next cut was by Dave Koz:  "Saxophonic - Just to be Next to You".  This piece starts off with some wind chimes being stroked, and as the sound decayed it sounded like it was distorting with the Two, but remained clear with the Double.  At 3:25 minutes there are a series of low bass notes that sound distorted at the start of the note with both amplifiers.  I'm guessing that these may be just low enough to cause some cone distortion in my Tangent speakers, although it could also be in the recording.

To wrap up this listening session, I listened to "The Very Best of Diana Krall - Only the Lonely" and listened more carefully to the drum set brush work.  I realized that this is the snare being brushed, not a cymbal.  I've seen some drummers brush cymbals, but have much more commonly seen snares being brushed.  With the Two, it was harder to distinguish between a snare and a cymbal being brushed, but with the Double it was clear with careful listening.

The next listening session won't be for a week, other commitments have to be met.  Upcoming:  listening comparisons using male vocals, and solo piano.
« Last Edit: 18 Jul 2009, 07:23 pm by Tone Depth »

turkey

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #10 on: 20 Feb 2009, 01:38 pm »

I'm wondering, are these descriptions of my listening sessions are boring to read? 

Yes.

Perhaps you could inject some humor into it.

"I listened to this album and the trumpets were a bit too tootsy-tootsy. The bass drum was slightly chocolate, and the violin section tasted green."


martyo

Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #11 on: 20 Feb 2009, 02:03 pm »
Quote

I'm wondering, are these descriptions of my listening sessions are boring to read? 

Yes.

Perhaps you could inject some humor into it.

"I listened to this album and the trumpets were a bit too tootsy-tootsy. The bass drum was slightly chocolate, and the violin section tasted green."



 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

"Tone", seriously, keep 'em coming. In your last installment you were comparing some passages that the 2 couldn't resolve but the 440 could, and cymbals, and brushes. I think my set excells in those 2 areas, and when I had the stock 440H in the set, it did too. The open airy, both dynamic and delicate, scratchy and silky, and the attack and decay, outstanding.

oneinthepipe

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #12 on: 20 Feb 2009, 04:12 pm »
Tone Depth:

I concur.  Keep the reviews coming.  It is interesting to understand the evolution in your methodology and listening in addition to your perceptions of the components.  I would be interested, also, to know if you become aware of differences when you listen to a track on subsequent occasions on either/both amplifiers, i.e., if there is a training/refinement of listening process.



Tone Depth

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #13 on: 27 Feb 2009, 12:02 am »
Finally, the chance for another listening session comparison of the AVA Insight Double 440H (Double) and the VA Model Two (Two) amplifiers. 

I listened to selected CD tracks on "Jim Brickman:  Ultimate Love Songs" (This CD was purchased at his concert, just prior to Valentine's Day).  Jim Brickman plays piano and is accompanied by various vocalists.  Listening to the CD engages me as a listener, remembering the sweet sounds of the concert:

Track 6:  Love of My Life, with Michael W. Smith singing at 0:02 minutes at the start of the track there is a piano chord struck a little too hard.  Both the Two and the Double present the same transient type distortion, I'm guessing that the piano mic was turned up a little too much.  I note that Michael's voice sounds fuller, with a more rounded tone on the Double.  At 1:09 minutes there are sibilants in his voice.  The “s” sounds sound like a slight hiss on the Two, but on the Double I can hear a distinctly clear “s” sound.  As the song continues, the lower bass notes on the piano are more clear on the Double, and the viola stands out with rich tones when mid-low notes are played.

Track 8:  Beautiful, sung by Wayne Brody.  At 0:15 minutes, a hammered cymbal has a muted shimmer decay with the Two, and I can clearly hear the rise and decay with the Double.  At 1:27 minutes, a tambourine hit sounds slightly muted with the Two, but with the Double the sound hangs in the air.  Wayne has some sibilant “s” sounds sounding like a hiss at 1:57 minutes through the Two, but the sound is clear and doesn't break up with the Double.

Track 12:  Hear Me (Tears into Wine), sung by Michael Bolton.  Near the middle of the song, at 2:29 minutes, Michael has a hard “T” sound and I hear the overtones break up.  When listening with the Double, I can hear the same tones resonating.  I note on this cut that Michael's voice sounds fuller and smoother on the Double.

Track 13:  Peace (Where the Heart is), sung by Mark Masri.  At the start of the song, 0:05 minutes the fifth chord is struck harder, accentuated, and the piano string vibrations sound like they are breaking up on the Two.  Switching to the Double, I am able to hear string overtones instead of break up distortion.  Mark's voice has a fuller tone on the Double.  I also notice that the harder struck chords and notes begin to sound slightly like tubular bells on the Two, but keep sounding like a piano on the Double.

I switch to "Dana Cunningham:  Dancing at the Gate" for my second CD today.  This CD is also notable for me, as we were treated to her playing a concert at our summer place, on a Steinway grand piano over 100 years old - sweet!  This style is categorized as contemplative piano, much more free-form than the smooth Mr. Brickman's style:

Track 1:  Light on Water.  At 1:32 minutes, I'm slightly startled, thinking I'm hearing whistling accompanying the piano, played through the Two.  On the Double, I can hear a higher piano note being played, Dana's hand moving quickly to the right to hit the high note, and then back to the melody.  At 3:12 minutes, I hear another high piano note, but this one sounds like it is breaking up with the Two.  Switching to the Double, the note sounds like a high note on a piano.

Track 2:  Above the Canopy.  Just after the start, at 0:31 minutes, she accentuates a high note a little too forcefully and I hear hard overtones on the Two.  Back on the Double, the overtones are clear and float on the air.

Track 5:  Unfolding Journey.  Another hard hit high note at 0:12 minutes sounds hard (no surprise) on the Two, but full on the Double.  A little later, at 1:20 minutes there are some left hand mid-low notes which sound like they are distorting on the Two, whereas the Double reproduces an even sound.

Track 7:  Breath of the Holy One.  Sometimes, when a piano is played softly, you can hear the instrument's action "clunking" as notes are played.  I hear clunking at 0:30 minutes on the Two, but actually hear the action clearly on the Double.  Talk about revealing.

Track 8:  Wild Geese.  In the middle of the song, at 2:49 minutes, there are harmonic overtones from a mid-scale note through the Two.  Listening through the Double, I realize that the actual note can be heard, and not overpowered by the overtones.  A few seconds later, at 2:58 minutes, I hear the same effects but with another note: overtones overpowering the note through the Two, but the note floating with the Double.

Today listening session will conclude the A-B type testing of these two amplifiers.  Some may assert that comparing a 30 year old amplifier with a brand new amplifier is meaningless.  To me, however, the test is completely valid as it highlights the improvements I am experiencing with this change in my stereo system.  The improvements are both subtle and stunning; the Double 440H is one fine amplifier!  The Two is no slouch, and soon, someone will have a chance to purchase it and make a step up in their system.

Upcoming:  a comparison between the Insight Double 440H and an Insight 440, in another higher performing stereo system.
« Last Edit: 18 Jul 2009, 07:28 pm by Tone Depth »

Tone Depth

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #14 on: 27 Feb 2009, 12:06 am »
oops, quoted instead of modified

Toka

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #15 on: 27 Feb 2009, 12:15 am »
Thanks for the detailed write-ups, Tone Depth!  :thumb:

martyo

Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #16 on: 28 Feb 2009, 12:27 pm »
Wow!
Quote
Today listening session will conclude the A-B type testing of these two amplifiers.  Some may assert that comparing a 30 year old amplifier with a brand new amplifier is meaningless.  To me, however, the test is completely valid as it highlights the improvements I am experiencing with this change in my stereo system.  The improvements are both subtle and stunning; the Double 440H is one fine amplifier!  The Two is no slouch, and soon, someone will have a chance to purchase it and make a step up in their system.

I admire your patience and your review gives very precise examples of terms such as more revealing and more resolving. You described a fuller and smoother, and fuller tone, for vocals in particular. You describe very well the fullness and smoothness part but with MORE resolution and detail.

Looking forward to the direct comparisons.

Tone Depth

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #17 on: 8 Mar 2009, 06:03 am »
Wow, what a day!  I drove two hours to do some component comparisons with Wayne (WGH) in his system, and then two hours back home.  I brought my new Insight Double 440H (Double) amplifier, and my older Omega III EC (Omega) preamplifier with me.  As you can see, his system is higher performance than mine:

Component listing
Digital Source    Computer .wav files --> HagUSB --> Van Alstine Insight+ DAC
Analog Source    harmon/kardon T55C with power supply mod, Goldring 1042
Preamp    Van Alstine Insight+ EC and Cornet2
Power Amp    Van Alstine Insight 440
Speakers    Von Schweikert VR2
Speaker Cables    Double run of Kimber 4VS and MonoPrice 14 AWG oxygen-free speaker wire
Interconnects    Straight Wine Encore
Power Cables    Volex on phono
Racking    Old heavy white oak buffet in adjoining room, speaker cables run through the basement
Power Conditioning    Panamax 5410 Pro
Other Components    Sorbothane and other assorted feet under components

Please note that Wayne's Von Schweikert VR2 speakers are also of the efficient variety, presenting a relatively easy load to drive.

First of all, a brief comment on the preamplifiers comparison:  the music through the new Insight preamplifier is a "three-note" significant improvement over the Omega preamplifier.  No double blind testing needed to tell the difference, we heard it within the first three notes!  I'll write more comments on the preamplifier comparison in another thread, and will try to keep this one on-topic.  Once I save up enough money, I will send my Omega preamp to Frank for the Insight upgrade.  Note to self:  This will also require "unearthing" my backup preamp (hopefully it still works), to keep me from going completely into withdrawal, during the elapsed time for the upgrade to be done.

As anticipated, music through our two Insight amplifiers sounded very similar.  For demo music, I brought three CDs:  "The Very Best of Diana Krall", "Closer The Best of Sarah McLachlan", and Copland's "Fanfare for the Common Man" performed by the LA Philharmonic Orchestra (Universal Classics).  Wayne ripped them to his music server, for playback through his Insight+ DAC, followed by the Insight+ preamplifier and the two Insight amplifiers.  We also listened to several of his LPs via his turntable, separate Cornet2 tube phono preamp, and the Insight+ EC preamp.  Not taking notes, I unfortunately can't remember the titles of Wayne's LPs; perhaps he can append that info.

I think Wayne and I both concluded that through the Double, the lows in the music were more authoritatively there and the highs were clearer.  In the midrange, I thought that I liked music through the Double better, but to be completely sure that there was a difference we could discern would take much more the two and a half hours we were able to spend listening and swapping equipment in and out.  Wayne thought that the difference in the music between the two amplifiers wasn't something that would compel him to send his Insight 440 for reworking, he is perfectly happy with it as it is (Wayne, feel free to further clarify if I haven't represented your impressions right).

So, what is the bottom line on these two amplifiers, based on our comparison?  If I were buying my amplifier again, I would definitely order the "Double" option for the 440H, it is that good!  This independently confirms Frank's earlier statement based on his final listening test of my amplifier:

"Well!  My goodness!  It is so close to the sound of the big Ultra Double 550 that it is almost scary.  Same dynamics, same musicality, a bit less power (225 watts per channel).  Where did all the transistors go?"?

If I wanted to get the most out of an existing Insight amplifier, or upgrading an earlier model amplifier, I would include the "Double" option in the order to replace the existing power transistors with the Exicon double die power transistors.  For me, it would not be cost-effective to do a model change (i.e. changing an Insight 440 to an Insight Double 440H, estimated at $750); I'd instead sell an existing 440 and buy a new Double 440H. 

If I were perfectly content with the performance of an existing 440 or a 440H in my system, I would be right there with Wayne and would have no second thoughts about keeping an Insight 440 in my system for the long term, and in fact I would think long and hard about if really I wanted to be without an Insight amplifier for however long it would take to get it upgraded - It is an awesome amplifier.  This independently confirms the statement on Frank's AVA web page ("All of the Insight amplifier models essentially behave the same").

Upcoming:  Semi-permanent installation of the Double into my somewhat cramped entertainment center, and medium-term listening focusing on music, rather than equipment.  This will include a future comparison with my VA Model Two, to see what differences I can hear after listening exclusively to the Double for a while.
« Last Edit: 18 Jul 2009, 07:34 pm by Tone Depth »

WGH

Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #18 on: 8 Mar 2009, 10:16 pm »
The listen session with Tone Depth was fun and informative. We first started listening to Tone Depth's CD's with my system as is so he could get familiar to the speakers and room. The VR2's go down to 25 Hz so the bass is deeper than he is used to.

Next up was replacing the Insight+ pre-amp with the Omega III. My observation is exactly the same as Tone Depth's, we listened to a few songs to let the unit warm up but the comparison was really over after 3 notes. I took it out of the system and we never thought about putting it back in again. To those on the fence wondering whether the upgrade to the Insight+ is worth it, I say yes, it's a no-brainer from what we heard.

The comparison between the Insight 440 and the Double 440H is a much harder call. I let Tone Depth have the sweet spot for most of the listening, he was the guest after all. The differences I heard were extremely subtle, if there at all. Maybe deeper bass on a particular cut, the highs might have been more extended and airy, but recording quality varies so much and we didn't have the time needed to do a definitive amp review, which between these two amps would have taken days they sound so similar.

One reason I think the difference was so subtle is that the VR2's are an easy load with a 90 dB in room sensitivity and a nominal 8 ohm impedance ranging from 7 ohms to 20 ohms. Unless you are thinking of buying less efficient speakers that dip below 4 ohms, the standard Insight 440 will be all the amp you will ever need.

Up to now we were playing CD's, so while the Double 440H was in place I wanted to spin some familiar vinyl. The selection included:

Rob Wasserman - Duets - Ballad of the Runaway Horse with Jennifer Warnes
Andreas Vollenweider - Caverna Magica - Side A
Yello - Yello One Second - La Habanera

The three albums have a well recorded natural sound with exceptional bass, midrange and highs. To my ears they sounded exactly as I remembered them with no revelations, this is good because it saves me $750.

Putting the standard 440 back into my system after Tone Depth left was not a disappointment, it was like slipping on a pair of comfy old slippers, it just felt right. I find the pairing of the Insight+ electronics with the VR2 speakers very magical. The Burr Brown opamps really make the preamp and DAC something special and with the 440 amp the electronics simply disappear and all that is left is the music.

Wayne

JerryM

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Re: The AVA Insight Double 440H Amplifier
« Reply #19 on: 8 Mar 2009, 10:43 pm »
Tone and Wayne,

Nice write up of impressions. Very well worded!

Thanks for taking the time to fill in your thoughts.  :thumb:

Have fun,
Jerry