Your favorite smaller full range driver.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:34 am »

Quote from: Christopher Witmer on 9 Feb 2009, 10:21 pm

Before I became enamored of the exotic Feastrex & Exact drivers, I was a big fan of these 4" Technics 10F20 drivers:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=31148.0

I sure got a lot of pleasure from those Technics drivers! There are too many kinds of nice fullrange drivers out there . . . I'm glad I now have Feastrex to keep me focused in one direction, otherwise I'd be having a string of love affairs with all sorts of fullrange drivers. Just pick up a pair that have a good reputation and make some sawdust; you'll be glad you did!

Chris Witmer
Tokyo

well, thanks, Chris, you made my day! I'm the lucky buyer of the pair of Technics drivers you linked to, but have yet to play them.
I'm not the DIYer I once was, but you have provided the incentive!
I would like to experiment with the Goldwood 18 in the H baffle that MJK designed, but with the Technics 10F20 in place of the Jordan Watts.

markaudio · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:51 am »

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1728983#post1728983

The CHR70 drivers are new and are based on similar designs and technology for our existing Alpair driver range which just got a very favourable write-up from Dr Jim Griffin on DIY Audio.

There is a long association between ourselves and Jordan and we also built the short lived Jxr 6HD for EJ Jordan as well.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 03:58 am »

Quote from: chrisby on 10 Feb 2009, 07:18 pm

p.s. if you want to paint with broad strokes and classify (all?) Fostex drivers as having "tipped up RED HOT top end", perhaps you'd like to discuss that with the hundreds of owners of HornShoppe Horns, or Bob Brines' MLTL's to name just a couple of successful commercial builders.

Chris,

For the record, I did own a pair of HornShoppe Horns... and I did compare the Jordans directly to them... but I didn't say "all" Fostex drivers...

The only thing the Jordan's don't have going for them is there are not quite as sensitive as the Fostex units which can be a problem for flea amps.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 04:04 am »

welcome to AudioCircle, Mark!

Could you fill me in on what the story on the Jxr 6HD was. It looked like such a promising driver.

markaudio · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 Feb 2009, 04:39 am »

For a brief background, Markaudio is made up of two people Mark (the engineer) and myself (the designer) - so we are not a multinational conglomerate, just people who love excellent audio.

The JXr 6HD was supposed to be a replacement for the original JX53 and we worked closely with Ted over a few years to design and develop and manufacture it. For various reasons, after a limited production of a lower cost product that was based on the same design - we parted company and Ted sold his company to EAD in Sweden.

The original technology for the custom built drivers that we developed for joint use by Jordan and ourselves is now living on through our own audio drivers that we build. We know from our listening tests that they really are superb and we were thrilled to read Jim Griffin's comments as it validates 4-5 years of very hard work by ourselves.

We are based in Hong Kong where we have our listening room, we are also working with a number of country distributors to help get demo units etc out and about, because listening is really the only way to find out.

I will ask Mark to add some extra detail here later as I may have missed some important stuff.

I also want to add that I am trying to avoid making this a commercial post - at the same time I do want to answer any questions that get asked.

rjbond3rd · « **Reply #25 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 03:26 am »

What kind of amplification do the Markaudio Alpair drivers like?

Sonny · « **Reply #26 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 04:30 am »

Quote from: doorman on 8 Feb 2009, 06:28 pm

Not exactly "single-driver"!
Don

Sorry Don, you're right...I missed that.

chrisby · « **Reply #27 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 08:42 am »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 11 Feb 2009, 03:58 am

Quote from: chrisby on 10 Feb 2009, 07:18 pm
p.s. if you want to paint with broad strokes and classify (all?) Fostex drivers as having "tipped up RED HOT top end", perhaps you'd like to discuss that with the hundreds of owners of HornShoppe Horns, or Bob Brines' MLTL's to name just a couple of successful commercial builders.

Chris,

For the record, I did own a pair of HornShoppe Horns... and I did compare the Jordans directly to them... but I didn't say "all" Fostex drivers...

The only thing the Jordan's don't have going for them is there are not quite as sensitive as the Fostex units which can be a problem for flea amps.

Sorry, my earlier post did sound a bit pissy in regards to the Fostex, and it was too easy to misinterpret your intent - but for now I'll stand by my impressions of the Jordans and Mark Audio drivers - of course, that's always subject to change. I had listened to a lot of 300B amps ranging from home-brew to obscenely expensive designer models, before I found one that I liked (and could afford) - it was a matter of implementation.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #28 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 09:23 am »

Quote from: chrisby on 12 Feb 2009, 08:42 am

but for now I'll stand by my impressions of the Jordans and Mark Audio drivers - of course, that's always subject to change. I had listened to a lot of 300B amps ranging from home-brew to obscenely expensive designer models, before I found one that I liked (and could afford) - it was a matter of implementation.

Well if indeed Jordan's new suppliers have some QC issues, that's a different matter. I bought my drivers in 2004, but have sold them and moved on. As much as I like flea amps, my choice in speakers necessitates real power amplification.

planet10 · « **Reply #29 on:** 12 Feb 2009, 09:39 am »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 12 Feb 2009, 09:23 am

Well if indeed Jordan's new suppliers have some QC issues, that's a different matter. I bought my drivers in 2004, but have sold them and moved on. As much as I like flea amps, my choice in speakers necessitates real power amplification.

Here is what i'd guess. The ones you have were probably made in Denmark by Vifa with cones made by the same English guy that has been making them forever. The ones we had were the 1st EAD/swedish ones. Not by VIFA -- i know that much. New owner, new OEM manufacturer. I would have no problems with a suggestion that they may only be similar drivers. That would certainly go a ways to explain the seemingly large disconnect between the Jordan's stellar rep, and what we heard. Or it could just be something both Chris & i are sensitive to that doesn't bother others.

dave

Shenzi · « **Reply #30 on:** 14 Feb 2009, 03:44 pm »

The JX92 is still made by Vifa/Tymphany. Vifa switched their manufacturing base to China.

I know what you mean about the JX92 - it needs the right toe-in and BSC (usually) to do its magic. OTOH the JX6 is one of the cleanest drivers I've heard.

planet10 · « **Reply #31 on:** 15 Feb 2009, 01:06 am »

Quote from: Shenzi on 14 Feb 2009, 03:44 pm

The JX92 is still made by Vifa/Tymphany. Vifa switched their manufacturing base to China.

I know what you mean about the JX92 - it needs the right toe-in and BSC (usually) to do its magic. OTOH the JX6 is one of the cleanest drivers I've heard.

A new, still working out the kinks, Tymphany factory in China, isn't the same as a well oiled Vifa factory in Denmark.

dave

TomekZ · « **Reply #32 on:** 21 Mar 2009, 11:58 pm »

My favorite is the Jordan JX92S. I always come back to it after being sidetracked with another driver. The Jordan drivers just seem the smoothest through the midrange and capture tonal quality within that region. My second favorite driver is the Fostex alnico--although here I've only listened to the 8 inch F200a. I bet the Fostex F120a is lovely. The alnico magnet seems help reveal the beginning and ending of notes (perhaps responsive speed) giving a sense of inner detail. Any of the other Fostex sound kind of boring (like mono-tonal) after a time with the Jordan. I like SET amps and gain-clone amps and class A solid state.

srb · « **Reply #33 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 12:22 am »

My only experience with small full range drivers was the 4-1/2" CSS FR125. Although I was prepared for a lack of bass, I was not prepared for a high end that sounded like a pillow was in front of the driver.

I even wondered if it was possible that the drivers were mismarked, as CSS also had an extended range version (not the full range 'FR' model) at the time.

Although I am sure there are many full range drivers that have a reasonable high end, that experience abruptly ended my experimentation.

Steve

markaudio · « **Reply #34 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 05:30 am »

Hi Steve,
The CSS FR125 driver is very capable of delivering a fine musical experience across the range. There's many good full range drivers coming from a variety of makers so the choice for en-users is excellent right now.

Sound like you've been used to listening to multi-way systems, tweeters covering the highs. Sadly largely due to their relatively small net emitting surface area, many tweeters produce significant levels of HF distortion. This can mistaken for more activity in the HF rather than clean response. There's also some debate about how well most tweeters replicate perceived natural pitch.

If you're still keen to have extra effort in the high range, try adding tweeters with the FR's. Start with a simple crossover possibly kicking off at around 5 to 6 kHz. Adjust the feed to the tweeter by using decent resistors so they are more of a "top up" rather that full on. It's more about blending the sound output. You'll be pleasantly surprised by what can achieved.

It's not all bad news for multi-way systems. Although I'm busy making Markaudio's drivers, I occasionally blow the dust off my Victor SX-500 Sprit 2 way speaker system. At nearly 30 years old, its still plays well. I've got the "all Japan" units, built by Victor's engineers before the bean counters wrecked the company. It's a sealed system that has to be bi-wired or bi-amped. The 8" woofer is wide and sweet. The 1.5" dome tweeter is one of the few I respect. It doesn't scream, being smooth and detailed. This system was made for those of us who are happy to fine tune the feeds to each driver.

Overall, good full range drivers deliver an alternative musical experience, that many consider original "authentic" high fidelity. Musical mids (especially vocals), clean detailed bass and better balanced highs are what full rangers are often all about.

As a good audio friend of mine once said "We've all got one pair of ears, so use one pair of drivers"

I understood his sentiments so there's some merit in his words. Have fun and enjoy the music.

Cheers,

Mark.

S Clark · « **Reply #35 on:** 22 Mar 2009, 06:13 am »

http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/269-568.pdf
Point this a bit off axis and for $.69 it actually sounds pretty good. I threw one of these in a quick plywood box for grins, hooked them up to an old Eico 12 watt mono amp and listened to Eva Cassidy as I tiled the living room floor. I was amazed at what a single speaker with no crossover could do. Now, it doesn't compare to a real system, but sixty nine cents

TomekZ · « **Reply #36 on:** 25 Mar 2009, 12:29 am »

The CSS FR125s indeed is fine in the treble throughout the bandwidth. A driver I could be content with as in my main system.

I've not done a new speaker project for a couple of years. My Japanese pull saw is anxious to slice wood. Love the fragrance of fresh cut woods.

It looks like an Alpair might be a likable choice, but can't decide between the 6 or the 10--better treble or more bass?

Poindexter · « **Reply #37 on:** 1 Apr 2009, 04:58 am »

I was surprised at the 'blanket over' reaction. The published FR only(?) goes to 20K, but it's a billiard table to there. Other than sensitivity, the thing looks fab. The Xmax even lets us take it down below 90Hz, which really eases the load on the subwoof.

Why you thought the thing sounded muffled, brah? I wonder.

Aloha,

Poinz
AudioTropic

technobear · « **Reply #38 on:** 23 Apr 2009, 07:44 pm »

Another shout for the Veravox 5S

http://www.hifisound.de/oxid/oxid.php/sid/x/shp/oxbaseshop/cl/details/cnid/a5245e409bf841566.00288550/anid/a5245e40a77208ae9.33057612/tpl//lang/1

I recently hear a pair of these in BiB cabs and they are quite superb. They made no bones about playing 'Lines In The Sand' by Dream Theater at considerable volume and rendered one of the most spellbinding performances of that track I have heard in recent times. This is a high-end driver. If I was gonna use it I would roll in a supertweeter to give a bit more top end detail but no need to place any nasty crossover components in the path of the Veravox. Midrange performance was very clean and conveyed vocal emotion very well - it brought tears to my eyes.

Then again if you can afford a Feastrex... then you can also consider the Supravox 215-2000 and the PHY-HP range

chrisby · « **Reply #39 on:** 24 Apr 2009, 06:30 pm »

Quote from: TomekZ on 25 Mar 2009, 12:29 am

The CSS FR125s indeed is fine in the treble throughout the bandwidth. A driver I could be content with as in my main system.

I've not done a new speaker project for a couple of years. My Japanese pull saw is anxious to slice wood. Love the fragrance of fresh cut woods.

It looks like an Alpair might be a likable choice, but can't decide between the 6 or the 10--better treble or more bass?

FWIW, based on what I've heard from the little CHR70's, I'd put my money on the Alpair 10s (of course with my HF hearing loss , I'd likely not miss much of any advantage the 6 might have over the 10)

Mark - I certainly your reaction to SRB's "blanket" statement (pun intended) - my own impression of the CSS FR125 is in comparison to the Fostex FE127E & FE126E, neither of which can be described as "shy violets" in the 3-10K range. Sensitivity difference aside, I personally find the Fostex more "alive" in this area, quite possibly for the aforementioned reason.